FigBearingThistle

If you'll charter the Concord, I'll go.

"Life is hard...and then we die." I inherited the worry gene from my mother. And I find that I can never fully enjoy the good times, because I know they will end, and hard times will be in store. But, I guess part of this mortal experience is learning how to recognize good, and evil is required for that to happen.

I would start now for sure. But consider that the Spirit may prompt you as to the missed tithes-one way or the other. I think it would be symbolic of going the extra mile and doing more than was commanded, if you did, however.

Exactly. I despise it too for the same reason. Like a cheap sales slogan.

Speaking of non-scriptures quoted as scripture, how about "I never said it would be easy, I only said it would be worth it." (presumably a quotation from God telling us that being born, living, and dying would be worth it.) It almost sounds like a sales commercial to me.

U.N. scientists estimate that about 100 species become extinct every day throughout the world. I don't know what happened to the horses in the Book of Mormon, or the elephants from the Book of Ether. The BoM does not indicate that they were widely used, or a big part of their day to day living. Cureloms and Cumons aren't exactly terms that our modern culture is familiar with. My theory is that cultures and civilizations sometimes regress and degenerate. Such happened during the dark ages in Europe. I think that many animals were hunted to extinction in order to support large populations during times of famine, and war. A helpful hint: While you are reading this message, look at the top right of the screen for "display modes" Choose threaded mode, and it will be easier to see who is replying to what. Thanks.

I think there may be some peer-pressured-intellectualism creeping in with some of these scholars. They are either frustrated that swords, horses, and chariot wheels haven't been unearthed, or they are preparing others for the possibility that such things wont be found in their lifetime. Personally, the mention of breastplates and swords cankered with rust (Mosiah 8:10-11) tells me that these things actually existed, and it is a testimony to me that cultures and civilizations can deteriorate and regress with apostasy and wickedness. I think we all saw this with the dark ages. As for the picture, it may not be wholly accurate, but accuracy is not the reason I like it. It means something to me that goes beyond the accuracy of the painting.

You just used a big word on me. I had to look it up. :) What's it anachronistic in comparison to?

Obviously, from these verses, repentance is meant to be a struggle. If not, the gift of forgiveness would not be seen for it's true value.

Thanks,In a sense, all we can do is "choose". That power has been given to us.

Interesting, and thanks. I especially like the one about "weakness(es)" Regarding the one about grace, a similar phrase could be this: After all you can do to make a life and living for yourself and family, it is by air, water, and food that you live from day to day.

That self esteem is important is not the question, in my mind. It is the 'best process' of obtaining that personal self-esteem that is the question, here.

Thanks, Elgama. I think we basically agree.My feeling is that self-love shouldn't even be the issue. From my experience, when we feel best about themselves, it is because we are obeying the commandments and serving others, and forgetting about ourselves, not because we are focusing on ourselves. That personal self esteem that people yearn for so much is, in my opinion a natural by-product[/ of obedience, and self-sacrifice, and not the direct result of conscious self building. And I think the activities you described are not self-oriented pursuits, but more a submission of self to God's will. I think those that have the best "self esteem", to use the modern vernacular, are unconscious of their own "healthy self-esteem" because they are focused on more worthy pursuits than self-building.

Here is my "highly opinionated" short list of some common scriptural misquotations or mis-interpretations in the Church which have bothered me for years. There are others, but these are a start. Feel free to add to these. 1. D&C 82:3 (also Luke 12:48) Incorrect: For of him unto whom much is given, much is ... 'expected'. Correct: For of him unto whom much is given much is required; This quote bothers me, because there is a distinction between expectations and requirements. The distinction being, that expectations are unwritten benchmarks held in he mind. Because they are not written, they are not clear, and they cannot be sufficiently met to the satisfaction of the expectation setter. Like a spouse who struggles to meet the imagined and undefined expectation of the husband or wife. Requirements are clearly set benchmarks that are spoken or written, and can therefore be understood, and attained to the proof and satisfaction of all. God has not given us vague expectations, but has written his requirements and commandments for all to read, and these requirements are the same for all. 2. Matt 7:1 (and 2) Incorrect: "Judge not that ye be not judged." This often leads to an incorrect interpretation when it is ended at this point. Correct: 1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. This one is obvious to most. Since we are commanded to discern between good and evil, this is not an injunction cease from judging between what is morally right and wrong. The second verse shows the correct context, that we are to employ "righteous" judgment, so that a righteous judgment may be passed upon us.(See Alma 41:14) 3. Mark 10: 25-26 Incorrect: It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. The error is in stopping the quote at this point, excluding verse 26. Correct: It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? Verse 26 is why I don't believe that this scripture is referring to some gate that camels had to crawl through with packages removed, in order to enter the city...a notion commonly held in the Church. Hugh Nibley called this notion a middle-aged invention for the purpose of soothing the consciences of the 'well-heeled' within some priest's congregation. Why would the apostles be 'astonished out of measure' if this camel/gate thing was what Jesus was referring to? 4. Incorrect: "Thou shalt Love thy Neighbour as Thyself." This is incorrect insofar as people take it as a command to love ourselves by "looking out for no. 1", and making ourselves the greatest priority in life. This scripture gets mingled with the Pop-Psychology nonsense which says that we cannot properly love others unless we first learn to love ourselves. In my mind, this philosophy of Man has produced a generation of individuals who think that the pathway to self-esteem and happiness begins with self-service, and adornment. This does not seem scriptural to me. We are told in the scriptures that when we self-seek, we lose our life, but when we lose our life in the God's cause, we find ourselves. (See D&C 98:13) Our degree of self-love, (whether we love ourselves, or loath ourselves), should not be the model for how we love others. IMO. Finally, one must ask: "Who was Jesus speaking to? An audience with low self esteem, or an audience who had no problem already loving themselves?" More Correct: "As I have loved you, love one another" (This puts Jesus as the Model) "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" (a 'new' commandment as Jesus calls it.) (John 13:34) And a combination hybrid: "Love your neighbor, as you would want your neighbor to love you." This sets a standard based on an ideal. Others are welcome to add additional scriptural misquotations, and misinterpretations as you see them.

The trend of many critics to hop aboard the anti BofM DNA Mantra-wagon, by the way, is unfounded, and born of ignorance. DNA doesn't prove or disprove any of the BoM claims. The power of the Book of Mormon is the testimony from the Holy Ghost. It has always been so.