manxman

The reason the church prospers, even with things against it, is because God wants it too. Both because of and in spite of the members, the work rolls forward to fulfill it prophetic destiny-to fill the Earth with the Gospel of Christ, until the truth has sounded in every ear and been preached in every nation, until the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done, that those whom are willing to harken may freely do so, and those whom will not may receive a just reward.

Western Australia has JUST had the state govt pass trading hours legislation (that the people have twice rejected) allowing general Sunday trading. We were accused of being behind the times, and an impediment to business. I fear it will lead to more casualization in the workforce, less family together time and lower overall earnings for many. It was heavily restricted before, mainly to family 'corner' stores, less than 6(?) people, and the tourist areas of Freemanltle and Northbridge. Petrol rosters died years ago, numbers of outlets have dropped accordingly, and service there is non-existent. Alcohol is even more readily available, and of course, the Casino gets exemptions to operate all manner of evil 24/7. I'm grateful for successive state govts that have so far refused to let poker machines into the public arena, apart from the Casino. That's a curse we're all better off without. However, the state promotes the use of scratchies tickets-cheap gambling which soaks up the small change in the community, and impoverishes every fool who gets into it. There was a robbery of tickets some years ago, but they weren't really worried, and publicly stated that they weren't likely to win a major prize in the many 1,000s of tickets they'd gotten. Not much hope for the punters then either, I'd say. We also have legal prostitution premises in housing areas, with the attendant problems. This state is filled with Godless people, many of whom have too much, and some have too little, and most want something for nothing. Their hearts are set upon their wealth, or lack of it, but not on the God who enriches all whom will believe. I fear for this people, that they will be destroyed for their wickedness. I really do. My own life will be forfeit with them, I expect, but this people worry me.

for what it's worth, I've read the whole thread, but not the references. IMO, just because it's not specificaly exluded, 'Death coming into the world' might refer to death for just mankind being delayed, whilst the animal and floral kingdoms are likely to have had death for some time. Like many, I do not subscribe to a 24hr day for the creational periods, but consider it possible, rather than fact, that they were much longer. The debate has been interesting, but since it has little to do with the salvation of men, from God there is little specific scriptural information. All this speculation and postulation is interesting, but also a distraction tp the core truths of the Fall and the Attonement. All else is either an appendage or speculation, or wrong, and neither of the last 2 matter at this time. Nice to know, but unnecessary to our salvation, and if over-indulged in, an hindrance to the same. It is our individual salvation that matters, and that comes only though obedience to the laws of God and faith in Christ as our redeemer. We do this best when we understand who and what we are to believe in properly. The fullness of that knowledge now available come only in the doctrines of the LDS church. The power to make that knowledge effective in our lives comes through the restored Priesthood, without which there is no true church on the earth, and the power of God is not known among men. I tend to deal in few absolutes, and am a moderate in my own eyes on many subjects, but I cannot compromise with what absolute truths I have. Where it's a maybe, or a possible, I'm willing to give place til I know better, but where I know, there is no room for compromise. The scriputres are true, and say thatAdam was the first man. Then why not say if anything was before, then it was not a "man". It was something else. the difference-I don't know, but not an unreasonable position IMO. Macroevolution-I worry when pple start crossing animal, fish and plant genes-I think it unwise-the basic premise, even with it's known few execeptions, that hybrids don't reproduce-seems to generally exclude such an idea-but I'm open to new thinking. The Temple indicates such too.

where did this book come from? could Joseph have written it from his own experience in the time taken, at that age, even with the help of his scribes? Is it written in the language and style of a frontier wester americian 19th century poorly educated mindset, or is it written in a classical ancient educated middle-eastern mindset? Ultimately, the proof of the Book of Mormon is spiritually discerned, even if logic is used. I state there is NO proof of the Book of Mormon, other than, nor better than, the spiritual one. That proof will stand all questions and all opposition for as long as it is sustained by faithful continuance in its maintenance. Study, Ponder, pray. Ask & ye shall recieve, Knock, & it shall be opened unto you, be dilligent in keeping the commandments of the Lord and be believing, and you shall KNOW! Give it time, the work will prove itself true or false. Be aware that the people in it are themselves imperfect, and may not always behave as you might expect. We are not a club for the perfected, but a hospital for those seeking perfection. expect some sicknesses among us, and perhaps some contaigion from time to time. It should not be so, but it can be, it is up to you to see the God behind it all, and not let our humanness block the view.

I'm horrified. there's too much political correctness about, especially from government offices and educators. I have found much of it from graduate feminist origins in my country. Absolute claptrap. I have no trouble honouring women who honour their womanhood, but can't stand women who won't honour honourable men, few though they be, and I would exclude myself.

serious sin-moral transgression, murder, theft, conspiracy, drugs, abortion, abuse of others, WoW.... certainly tell your bishop, less serious stuff, if it's gone, let it go. Remember he has gifts to assist him, prepare by fasting and prayer beforehand, this will help you discern what needs to be discussed.

It is my understanding that Oliver had certain personal disagreements with the prophet, but he certainly knew that the work was true and real. He never denied his part in it, expect by leaving the church. I believe he later returned, but never again held such office as he had.

More important than who are the mormons, is what are the mormons? We are a people with the highest possiblle ideals for humanity, or we should be, because they are what we teach as being true. Everything which enobles mankind and is true we claim as belonging to us, and we should teach it freely. Is it any wonder when a member of such a society falls, the public take special notice-we have so much further to fall than they, and it shows starkly against what we teach. You might not have noticed, criminal who was a policeman is always an ex-policeman in the press, and a mormon who falls, is always a mormon, but another religionist who falls is just Joe Bloggs. We are supposed to be so different, and we all suffer when even one goes bad. Tall poppies? Perhaps, I don't know, but it definitely happens.

Church discipline rarely is made public, it's generally a private matter. Don't expect change on that front. When persons in authority are found in transgression, the situation may be different, depending largely on how much harm has been done, to how many, and who needs to know. I've heard of a case where a couple joined the church for the express purpose of publicly reporting on the temple services. They apparently succeeded, but I guess they will have to sort that out with their maker. God will not be mocked..... there are people in the church in varying degrees of personal righteousness, some who are in open rebellion and others who are particular about their compliance with the Lord's will. Systematic intrusion by enemies is possible, but unlikely, and the Lord would be aware and dealing with it, his way. Most enemies just try to tear it down from outside, whilst the membership is less deliberate in its destructive practices. As many missionarys have said, 'sometimes you wish the members would just live their religion, not religion their lives.'

Itmight pay to remember that the Jews rejected Christ because of "overlooking the mark". Be careful your curiosity doesn't spoil your opportunity for salvation by getting bogged in details no-one can really know. Have faith, be content with that, for it is stronger than speculation, and leads to certainty, where speculation leads to more uncertainty.

Moska-Is that what you believe? going hopefully through the motions is not going to get you far-working through with faith would be much more productive-and there is a marked difference,particularly in our ability to endure the hardships when we have the faith to hang in with. Your apparently off handed manner worries me-yes, these things are good for people,but of no benefit without the faith to power their operations, and the close contact with the living God to guide them. the church welfare system has had many try to copy it, but none are so successful as we with it, because it is spirit driven, not man driven. Ditto our volunteer missionary program, there's nothing else like it in the world, because it is the Lord's, and he will see it succeed.

Minimum Necessary data is: an event, a name, a place and a time all interconnected with at least one person. the event can be almost anything, if it links the birth, death or marriage date to the person(s). Dates "can"be approximated if no other confirming sources exist, but more precision is desireable to identify the soul for whom it is being done. They need to be deceased at least one year.

I think the invasion of Iraq has nothing to do with the protection of liberty or life, but it is the western plunder of the vulnerable middle east. -a-train As you say,it's your opinion. It's my opinion that there has been so much deceit and politics that an ordinary bystander cannot now know what truth there may every have been. As to the motives of the decision makers, even if they told you the truth, there would be few willing to believe them. It's degenerated into a mess, but the quickest sure way for it to end is for the insurgents to let peace reign, so we can pull out quickly, then they can do what they really want. trouble is, they don't believe that will happen, or they thirst after blood and revenge, neither of which is productive or conducive to peace. The latter seems to be a prevalent attitude of Arabs and Jews, causing generational bloodsheds.

We believe the Bible to be the word of God insofar as it is translated correctly. We also believe the Book of Mormon to be the Word of God. Where there is translational failure/imperfection, there is always the Divinely attested accuracy of the translation of the Book of Mormon, and Latter-day revelation to provide certainty, according to the will of the Lord. I'm sorry, I must dispute. The God of common Christianity shares the name and ultimate purposes of the God of the LDS, but they are radically different beings according to their form and other characteristics as taught by the proponents, though they should be the same.

I did not say you did not know God, I said that President Hinkley justly did not believe in the God of common Christianity-the Trinity. I do not know that God either, and I don't want to, because I understand God as a very different being - as President Hinkley does. i do not necessarily have his level of understanding or familiarity, but I believe after a like manner.