Jenamarie

HizWife, we *are* aware of what's contained in the Bible. No need for yelling.

I agree that when we lose focus on the Father, we lose focus on the thing that is most important in this life, and that is our relationship with Him. However, I believe that what we do here on earth is very important. For the past 6 months I've been going through a lot of soul searching as to wheather I am LDS by birth, or LDS by *choice*. I've looked into other Christian doctrines, and while the "once saved always saved" doctrine has it's appeal, to me it makes God seem rather two dimentional. From what I've learned of other churches, they believe God created us in our mother's wombs, and all we have to do in this life is come unto Christ and be saved. If we fail at that one thing then we're damned to Hell. Period. But God knows all things, so surely He must know that not all of His children will have a fair shot at making that choice. There are middle eastern countries where Christianity is *outlawed* under punnishment of death! How are these children supposed to learn of Christ? Is that fair? Are they expected to make a greater sacrifice than those of us who live in Christian countries, to follow the Lord? To watch their entire families be killed by their government? And why would Christ give commandments if He didn't expect us to obey them? Were they merely advice? If it's non-Christians living clean lives that ends up making the world a better place, and "born-again Christians" who are making life miserable for everyone, does that glorify God? (not saying this is happening on a large scale, but I have met many wonderful athiests and many far-from-nice "Christians") And why did God create mankind? That's one question I haven't found a satisfying answer for in any other church besides LDS. Was it so he could have millions of underlings worshiping Him? If He loved us, would He not want more for us than that? Would He not want to raise us up and help us experience the joy that He feels? And why would He create mankind knowing that the vast majority of them would end up in Hell simply for not choosing him? The LDS belief that only those who *knowingly* reject Christ will end up in Hell makes Heavenly Father seem much more just, and loving, and pure. Those who don't repent of their sins won't recieve as high a glory in Heaven, and still may not be in God's presense, but the "damnation" of being cut off from Eternal Progression seems much more just than being sent to burn in brimstone because of one mistake you made in an otherwise honorable life. My seminary teacher used an awesome diagram to explain Grace to us. She drew a pit that represented our fallen state, with a rope hanging from the top that represented the Atonement. Some of us will grab onto the rope, decide that climbing out of the pit is too hard, and let go. Some of us will grab onto the rope, and stay right there at whatever point on the rope we grabbed on to. And some of us will grab onto the rope and start climbing. We'll fall sometimes, but through repentence His Divine Forgiveness will lift us back onto the rope, to the same point we were at when we fell, and we'll be allowed to continue our assent. And because the pit is far too deep for us to climb out of on our own, Our Savior is standing at the top, pulling the rope towards Him, so that we are able to accomplish more than we could have ever hoped to accomplish on our own, and so we'll progress much further than those who let go, and be stronger Spiritually, and have a closer relationship with Him, from working with Him to draw ourselves to Him, than those who merely hang on and wait for Christ to pull them to the top. Grace is offered to all, but not everyone gets the same results from it. God is watching what we do with His Gift.

See the link in my more recent post for a clearer answer. My first answer was a bit off. I'd forgotten the exact wording of the prophecy, so my first conjecture wasn't entirely correct.

Did Joseph Prophesy of Christ's Return Here is what Joseph said: I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following: Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter. I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face

If J. Smith lived to that age, he would see the coming of Christ. He didn't live to be that age. Perhaps if he had he would have been able to do more of the work of the Lord that would have made the world ready for His coming. Because he was martyred in cold blood that work was cut short.\\ ETA: See my next post for a clearer answer. I need to brush up on my D&C reading.

Please understand that not every LDS belief needs to be absolutely supported by the Bible. We reject the man-made notion of a closed cannon. The Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, and the Book of Mormon are sources of Truth equal to the Bible, along witht he Revelations of our modern Prophets. They clarify, Testify, and enhance our knowledge of our God and our Savior.

Oh no worries. I was laughing at myself mostly. :)

Thanks for the clarification Vanhin. I guess I never made the connection between D&C 132 and David. I did know that he lost his Exaltation, but I do suppose I was jumping the gun a bit to say I knew for sure he wasn't Eternally Damned. I'm a bit embarassed by my assumption now, actually. (man, I hate it when I get "told". )

Right, but he's not destined for Eternal Damnation. :)

I'm about 99% sure this question has to do with the discussion at the very end of the "how easy is it?" thread. HizWife, you're trying to use Moses and David as examples of people Mormons think are destined to Hell for murder. The truth is, we don't. They had not made the Temple Covenants which would put someone under condemnation for murder (as quoted by Vahnin), because of the covenant made with God therein. So just beacuse we don't believe David and Moses are destined to Hell, doesn't mean we are contredicting ourselves.

I see you've finally dropped your pretense of being here to understand.

Sometimes I don't ask anything. Or I'll only ask one thing, like "Dear Father, please help me to understand," if I'm having a difficult time with something, and then I just remain on my knees, eyes closed, hands clasped, and listen. I did this last week when I was having a difficult time with my husband. The answer didn't come in a booming voice, but in a warm, peaceful feeling in my heart, and a feeling of increased patience for the trial my dear husband was currently going through, and that was causing his behavior toward his family to become less than ideal. I arrose from my knees with a new commitment to be more patient with my husband, and to be by his side through this trial. While my understanding of his situation didn't increase, I know the Lord answered my prayer because I saw how I could help my husband. Mere understanding of his situation might not have prompted me to those actions.

Good call LM. Someone at church a few weeks ago suggested condoms.

Trying to get an idea of what items I might want to get to fill out my food storage. :) List what you have in yours (just a list of items, don't worry about listing how *much* of that item you have) Thanks. :) And here's what I have so far: Wheat Beans (both dry-pack, and canned in liquid) dehydrated onions quick oats rice pasta pasta sauce baked beans canned corn canned green beans canned peas apple sauce fruit cocktail canned tomatoes water chocolate drink mix powdered milk refried beans (both dry-pack and regular canned) canned tuna canned chicken breast chicken broth dehydrated garlic dehydrated apples spices cooking oil mac and cheese (the just-add-water kind) Wow, I didn't realize I had so much already!

Glad to be of service.

Hi sjdean! I've been reading this thread with interest the past few days, and finally decided to start posting. And I think these two principles would be a great place to start. Scripture study and prayer are how we communicate with the Lord (us to Him through prayer, Him to us through Scripture and a Witness of the Spirit). Perhaps once you've started opening up those lines of communication, the difficulties you're having facing the lifestyle changes will be made easier for you. :)

That is so me. And isn't it amazing that it's usually the short and simple Testimonies that have the greatest impact? Something I need to remember as I sit in the audience on Fast Sunday trying to think of what to say.

I think you hear more about them because they stand out. :)

Thanks. She's doing much better now, thankfully, and is creating havoc around the house.

And I make it sound like the MOPs group is the first time I've made friends outside of the LDS church, and it isn't. I've always had friends of other faiths, this was just the first time where I joined them in any sort of church function. We have an opening and closing prayer at MOPs, and had a pastor come in and speak to us about strengthening our marriages, and it's been interesting to see these things presented from a slightly different angle. The more casual prayers has deffinately taken some getting used to. I'm used to using "thee's and thou's" when speaking to my Father in Heaven, and some of the MOPs women have made light-hearted, laughable comments in their prayers, which was deffinately not something I was used to. At first it felt a bit irreverent to me, but again, as I've gotten to know these women, I've seen their hearts, and know that it's just their way of communicating with the Lord, and that they mean no disrespect to Him.

For the most part the known Christians I've encountered have been pretty decent people. Some of them have known I'm Mormon, some haven't, and for the most part their behavior towards me hasn't changed once they've learned I was Mormon. It's been different on the internet though. I guess the annonymity it provides gives some Christians the courage to tell me I'm going to Hell for my beliefs, that I've been hoodwinked into a cult, that my beliefs aren't really what they are (such as that I really worship a devil and have been put under covenant by my church not to admit it )and that they grieved for my children who were likely doomed to a similar fate because of how my husband and I were raising them. Last year I joined my town's local MOPs group (Moms of Preschoolers) and when I first signed up I didn't realize it was a religious organization. None of the fliers for this chapter mentioned anything about Christ or the Bible, or anything like that. When I learned it met at a local church that was my first clue, but it wasn't until I got the registration paperwork that asked for my religion, and what being Christian meant to me that I realized what that it had anything to do with Christianity. That's when I started getting a bit nervous. I was fully aware by then that many churches officially denounced the LDS church as a false church, and I was nervous about if these women would accept me once they found out I was Mormon, or, if they did accept me, would they use this as an opportunity to witness to me, which is not what I wanted. I wanted to spend time with other moms and talk about mom things. I'm happy to say that my religion hasn't been an issue, although I believe it's only the Steering team that even knows I'm Mormon. Religion has hardly been mentioned at all, honestly, in any of the meetings, which rather surprised me, so the topic of my faith hasn't had a chance to come up at all, and I've had a chance to really get to know these wonderful women for who they are, and not for what their views of Mormons and Mormonism are. I think it'll make it easier for me to take whatever comes when my faith does become known, since I'll know where these women's hearts are. :) (and I'd be shocked if it was anything negative, since most of the women I've gotten to know have been really really sweet women). I've been blessed by this opportunity to get to know other women of faith. :)

My daughter woke up with a bad stomach bug (hardly any food staying down), so no church for our family today.

No, I hadn't noticed!

I love Bob and Larry.

Elphaba is correct, the "traditional" use of tongues (not sure what else to call it ) was pretty active at the beginning of the church. I don't think the use of tongues as a "proof" of how Spiritual a meeting is is always inaccurate, but I do sometimes wonder why it seems to be the one that gets the most attention in other churches? I've heard several of my Christian friends talk about recieving the gift of tongues on several occasions, but not much talk about the other Gifts of the Spirit. (maybe I ought to ask them next time, perhaps they just aren't mentioning them) I think I would have to be in the same room to understand if someone speaking tongues is really feeling the Spirit or not. It IS a gift that can be easily faked, IMO. But I do not deny that the Spirit can and does work within other churches. God wants to bless ALL of His Children who are honestly trying to seek him.