Jenamarie

Weevils are evil! Sorry, couldn't help myself.

I stole a TV Guide when I was 7 years old. I thought they were so cool and my parents were SO LAME to never buy them.

I just spit out my Sprite!

We are joint heirs with Christ, after all. :) Joint doesn't mean "less than". I have equal access to the money in my husband and I's *joint* bank account. I'll also have *joint* access to the inheritance Christ will be recieving from the Father, that being all that he hath. :)

King James, for those of us who speak English.

There is one Almighty God, the rest of us are merely gods (notice the small "g") We grow up to be like Him, because we are His children, but we will never *become* Him, we will never usurp Him, and we will always ALWAYS be indebted to Him. He is Our Eternal Father, forever and ever, world without end, Amen.

Sure, but I think it's a rather long jump to the conclusion you're making about YellowLight. I don't believe he's an enemy. Perhaps only going off of this thread he would appear to be that, but having PM'd with him a bit I know that that is not what he is.

And also, for us Salvation means more than being saved from Hell. EVERYONE on this Earth is Saved from Hell, through the Atonement, save those who deny the Holy Spirit. EVERYONE will be Resurrected, EVERYONE has the opportunity to have their sins forgiven. Where we differ is in the rewards in the hearafter. Our works are what determin our Eternal reward. Did we rely on His Grace to help us keep His commandments? Or did we just coast through this life, perhaps being good to those who were good to us, but not going out of our way to help others, as He commanded. Those who follow His Path most closely, and who repent when they find themselves off of the path, will recieve Exaltation. Those who are unpenitent will not recieve Exaltation, but will be assigned to a lesser Kingdom. But not Hell. Their faith in Christ has saved them from Hell. That we get for free.

Okay, I'll grant you that some of his information is probably not coming from the best websites, but I still don't believe that automatically makes him an Anti, just going to the wrong sources for answers. Some people in this thread have already directed him to better sources of answers, without accusing him of being out to decieve.

Right. :) I think we ought to rejoice in what the church has been able to overcome. Not just the persecution, but the attempts at trickery, top leaders falling away, and people trying to tear it down on every side. And yet, how fast is it growing? How many Temples are there? How glorious is the relationship with Jesus Christ we're all given the opportunity to develope in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints?

Right. The church leadership is finally starting to open up over some of splotchier parts of our past, now it just needs to trickle down to the general membership.

And I'm sure they're also gleeful that we're so upset over YellowLight's questions. "Proof" that we have something to fear from digging too deeply into the history of the church. (which we really shouldn't, there are answers)

Really? I've PM'd with YellowLight a bit, and I don't believe he's out to deceive anyone at all.

I take it as your first deffinition, but that we do also need to try and live up to His commandments as best we can. He won't damn us if we fail (unless by "failing" you mean you've turned your back completely on the Lord and denied Him), but He wants us to try our best, because it will bring us happiness.

Could we please stop accusing YellowLight of being anti, or an attacker? True, his initial post may have/did violate some forum rules, but please don't use that asa reflection of his character. When we start attacking questioners we only help to push them away from the best source for their answers (the Lord) and give the anti's reason to glee. I'm reminded of the billboard I see every day "If you don't talk to your kids about drinking, someone else will". Likewise, if we as members don't *loveingly* care for the concerns of those who are questioning, there are plenty of people outside of the church willing to provide them with "answers".

Aphrodite: I would really recommend you read Rough Stone Rolling, if you haven't already. A lot of your questions about the Prophet would likely be answered by it. :)

It really was helpful for me, being able to dwell on a scripture for a few minutes, and see how my thoughts on a particular scripture changed as I discovered other scriptures that put it in a different light. My initial thoughts on some scriptures and topics changed drastically as I discovered other scriptures that offered additional insight. I really gained a deeper appreciation of scripture, especially of the Bible, by doing this. :)

Studying the Book of Mormon and Bible, reading Rough Stone Rolling (which is an excellent biography of Joseph Smith, and the times he was living in), going to the Temple (which I'm sorry isn't an option for you right now), learning about the doctrines of other Christian denominations (and comparing them to the Scriptures, and praying about them), keeping a "scripture journal" where I wrote down my thoughts on various scriptures (I followed the Topical Guide first, reading on subjects that intrested me, and then sometimes found scriptures on a particular topic that weren't included in the Topical guide that gave additional insight to the doctrine, so I wrote them down too, and wrote journal entries about my thoughts and tentative conclusions) and then a whole heck of a lot of prayer. I'm surprised you were told to keep things to yourself. All I've ever been cautioned against is presenting my opinions as doctrine, such as including them in a Sacrament talk, or trying to convince others that my opinion was THE correct opinion. I asked one of my questions in Gospel Doctrine class (when it was appropriate to the lesson) and got a bit of an answer, and then the teacher gave me more of an answer afterwards ( she didn't want to go off-topic in the middle of her lesson, understandably, which is why she gave me the answer in two parts ) I wasn't told I was wrong for asking it. :) (but you'll have to forgive me that, because this happened 6 months ago, I can't recall now what the question was I asked. I really wish I could!!)

Are you sure about that? I went to my Bishop when I first started questioning, and he was infact very encouraging, and gave me some great advice and answers. He didn't snub my questions at all. :) ETA: I've found that it's kind of hit-and-miss in the church, as to who is going to tell you "not to question" and who is going to tell you "ask away!". Those who tell you to "ask away" are usually the ones who have had the same questions you have, and have come out the other side with a stronger Testimony than ever. Those who say "don't question!' I think, IMO, don't have as sure a Testimony (although I don't think they'd see it that way), or think it's somehow "wrong" to question. Kind of like how it's popular right now to call someone "unpatriotic" for questioning the actions of our government, or the war we're currently in. You can love something (a church, a country) with all your heart, and still look it's flaws in the face and take them for what they're worth.

Okay, I'm glad I'm not drinking anything right now, because I totally just snorted.

MDS: As someone who just recently came out the other side of questioning the church, I'd give YellowLight a little more time to show himself to us before I accuse him of anything. This is only his first thread here, and we don't know much about him yet, just his questions. Let's not judge him too quickly. (coming from someone who joined a different LDS message board and immediately started asking these very same questions, and got accused of being the very same thing. I can understand how I came across that way, but it wasn't what I was. :) )

It is possible to come up with these kinds of questions about the church without going to anti's websites. Comments like this are what push questioners OUT of the church. I know I was extremely frustrated when my husband tried to tell me I must be getting my information from anti sites, because I absolutely wasn't. I'll say it again, I believe we do a great disservice to questioning members when we question the motives behind their questions! (wow, how many times can I use question in a sentence? ) The church can stand up to questioning. :)

And also, I want you to know that I understand that where you and your wife are right now is a very lonely place. I grew up in the church, and when I started questioning I had a lot of fears about what would happen to my life if I left. It would affect my marriage (no longer being of the same faith), it would affect my kids (two religions in one home! how confusing!), and it would be a monumental change to my identity. It was frightening, but with a lot of prayer I was able to conquer the fear and really delve into the Scriptures. Sometimes I found things that made me rejoice, and sometimes I found things that made me groan. But after awhile I found that the things that made me rejoice made the things that made me groan look like grains of sand, and I started to notice that those negative things weren't doctrines, but failings of the leaders, both past and present, both in this dispensation, and those leaders spoken of in ancient scripture. When it came to the teachings of the church that had to do with the Savior, and the family, and my identity as a daughter of God, I found great comfort and confidence in the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Sometimes I think we as members do a disservice to those who are asking difficult questions when we say things like "It doesn't matter", or "Just pray". I felt like my questions were being made light of when I was told those things, even if that was not the intention of the person giving me that "answer". I think we as members need to be more compassionate, and less afraid of facing the dark spots in the church's past. Because you know what? We've over come them. The church hasn't made the same mistake twice! The Lord keeps forgiving us of our mistakes and helping us to do better in the future. I eventually came to the realization that I was solely responsible for my own Testimony. NOBODY was going to be able to give me a satisfactory answer as to what is Truth, only God could do that, so I started to pray for guidance in where to find the answers to my questions, and I started to be lead in interesting directions. I never thought a "meaty" book of doctrine, like Jesus the Christ, would help me put church history into perspective. The Testimony born in that book about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ helped me to see His Hand in all things more clearly, and the things that were done by the hand of man more clearly also, and I didn't see the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints as a creation of the hand of men.

YellowLight: I've been in your shoes, believe me. Could the church perhaps take a better approach at teaching it's history? In my opinion, yes. BUT I do not believe they did it with the purpose to decieve. It is a failing of the church (notice the lower case "c") not the Gospel, that some things aren't presented well. The church has a rather extensive history, with a lot of people doing great things, as well as people screwing up royally, and there's also a lot of historical back-story to things that we, almost two hundred years later, may not know or understand completely, because we weren't there. Of course Joseph Smith and other prominant leaders had flaws, and at times did some questionable things. All of us do. It is amazing what the Lord can do with such flawed creatures as us. If you haven't already, I would highly recommend the book Rough Stone Rolling. It was one of the first books I read when I started questioning my faith, and really helped me to see Joseph Smith and the founding of the LDS church in a new, brighter, light. :)

Not even Pioneer Day? (for the OP: Pioneer Day is July 24th and celebrates the day when the first Mormon settlers arrived in the Salt Lake valley. It's not a *religious* holiday, but is celebrated throughout the church, much like 4th of July)