mike_uk

When you say Nahom has been found are you referring to the discovery in Yemen. The stone which bares the inscription NHM?

Rameumtpon, please just let it go.

I suggested we just leave this thread becasue we both have opinions and it's going to lead to anger. Oh wait, it alread has. Are you some kind of expert on these things also Rameumptom?

Not the best formatting but I am not a forum expert at all but it seems eligible to me. Me being wrong is YOUR OPINION so dont call me wrong here please. Problem with FAIR/FARMS is its Mormons defnding mormonism. So of course they are going to defend the faith. I think this is the time to leave this thread. It's not going to lead anywhere is it?

Ok ok Im still here. I ws too hasty in my decision to leave. There is no way I could leave this and not back up my statements. Infact all I was asked for was my concerns over the BoM. Not an actual explanation. But it appears that is the info Rameumptom wants from me so I will do my best. But please do me a favour and don't quote from FAIR/FARMS becasue that will be no help to the doubters at all. Finally, its late so I wont tackle everyting this evening. Call it a work in progress. I also suggest we just take a breather and try to get along now. We ae all adults with strong opinions and beliefs. Quote: Originally Posted by mike_uk When I pondered it's truthfulness the fact that it may just be an elaborate story never even occured to me. At that time I was "Converted" in as much as I believed that Joseph Smith had that vision. I am a very open minded person. The BoM had to be true because how could any man write such a book? Extensive research has shown me he could. Still I persevered with my attempts to gain a testimony of this book becasue of what the leaders told us. Years passed and I was still devoted to the church but still that testimony never came. I taught from the BoM as Gosepl Doctrine teacher which I served in for 2 years which I was excited to do becasue I thought that would be my way of getting that testimony. I tried to read it along with the student manual. I even asked the relief society in my Ward if I could gatecrash their scripture study institute class they were running. So I really did try I think. As to the errors in the book that Jospeh said is "the truest book on the earth". It just amazes me how something so true can contain so many factual errors. Things that cannot be proved at all. However these are the problems: Rameumptom: Let's take a look at your misconceptions one by one, and we'll see that at least most of them are because you really have not done the research. Quote: DNA genetic studies have proven that 98.9% of the American Indians came from Asia, not the Middle East as the Book of Mormon claims Rameumptom: So how do we know just what DNA for a Lehite is? As it is, DNA is a very poor way to determine lines like this. Why? Because we do not receive all the DNA from all of our ancestors. Within a couple generations, a person could have DNA from only half their ancestors. Does that mean they are not related to their grandparents? Of course not. Second, the Book of Mormon text shows that it is speaking of a small group of people, not the entire Indian nation. Small distances between Lamanite lands and Desolation, evidences of other groups, etc., are in the text. To ignore them and pretend to believe in a Hemispheric model is to set oneself up for a fall. Finally, the BoM shows time and again that we are talking about cultural Nephites, and not genetics. Nephites knew nothing about genetics and DNA. They culturally adapted into other groups, and others adapted into them. This same common trait of the Nephites is found to have been a trait in Mesoamerica, where Olmecs were absorbed by Mayans and others, both absorbing culture and transmitting culture. Cultural absorption is very common in the BoM, and Mesoamerica. This should be evidence FOR the BoM, not against it. Rameumptom, sorry but you simply are wrong with your assumptions. Inheritance studies like this look at mitochondrial DNA, not nuclear DNA. The mitochondria in your cells replicate and divide at their own pace, apart from the normal activity of the cell, and do not typically recombine DNA the way human gametes do (thus the bit about having "half their ancestors' DNA" is flat WRONG). Additionally, the mitochondria you have in your cells come exclusively from your mother - the developing offspring gets theirs from the female egg. So, inheritance can be followed with very high precision simply by examining the mtDNA. The wikipedia page isn't very detailed, but it at least is a start. Quote: The entire pretext, basic story line, for the Book of Mormon was written by Ethan Smith (unrelated to Joseph Smith) in 1823 and taken from a book called "View of the Hebrews" Ram: I've read the View of the Hebrews, and they are nothing alike - regardless of what Sandra Tanner insists. The names are different, the story lines are different. The BoM is much more complex than the VoH. To state that it was "taken" from the VoH is like saying the Little Mermaid was taken from Moby Dick, because they are both about a fish. If you study the evidences, you'll find that the BoM fits in 600BC Jerusalem and in Mesoamerica's pre-Classic era; but the VoH does not. Even non-LDS Biblical scholars, like Margaret Barker have stated that Joseph Smith got the culture and ideas of 600BC Jerusalem spot on. Fair enough you dont see the parallalls but I certainly do, as do many others. The book "Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon" by David Persuitte contains page after page of parallels between the BoM and VTH. As Persuitte emhasizes, some verses from the Book of Mormon are almost verbatim from VTH. Persuitte also discusses Oliver Cowdery and his family's ties to Ethan Smith. In addition, B.H. Roberts -- a general authority and prolific writer -- found the similarities between the BoM and VTH startling enough to seriously challenge his testimony. As to the claim that Joseph Smith got the culture and ideas of 600BC spot on, one of the chief criticisms of the BoM is that although the Nephites were supposedly devout Jews observing the Law of Moses, the BoM evidences almost no trace of their observance of Mosaic law or even an accurate knowledge of it. As to the storyline, at least one Mormon GA argued that the similarity between the BoM's storyline and that of VTH prove the genuineness of the BoM: "...remarkable from the fact that [View of the Hebrews] produces such strong evidences in favor of the genuineness of the Book of Mormon. ... [the author] in more than one place, refers to a tradition among the various tribes that in former times they possessed a book of great value, which they had lost, but which would at some time be restored to them. ... This is exactly the story, from the Lamanites standpoint, which the Book of Mormon records." Elder George Reynolds of the Seventy, 1902 Finally, no one claims that the BoM was "taken" from VTH. The claim is that Joseph Smith plagiarzed portions of VTH in the BoM. VTH sets forth Ethan Smith's Biblical based theories, arguments and beliefs about Native American origins. The BoM incorporates some of Ethan Smith's ideas into its storyline and embellishes upon them. The BoM also plagiarizes from other sources in addition to VTH. Quote: The Book of Mormon states they used what amounts to “coins” and even describe the different sizes, weights and values relative to food. The Gold and Silver pieces even had names such as “Senine, Seon, Strum, Limnah, Shiblon, amnor, ezrom etc.”. They were exchanged for goods and services just as we exchange our coinage/money today. Yet to date not one single “coin” has ever been found in all the archeology on the American Continent. (Alma 11:5-10) Ram: Wrong. The BoM used weights, not coins. And it is a system that is extremely efficient and ancient in nature. But Joseph would not have known that. http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Brochures/Anachronisms6.pdfhttp://www.fairlds.org/FA... Quote: Horses and chariots, pulled by horses, are all through the Book of Mormon, yet horses did not exist on the Pre-Columbian American continent Not a single steel sword, breastplate, metal sheild, helmet or “metal” arrow tip has ever been found on the American continent. No evidences of the wastes that go along with this complex insdustry has been unearthed. Ram: There are definite archaeological disagreements with your insistence here. Obviously, you do not have an open mind, or you haven't really studied much more than the anti-LDS material available. There are articles that discuss all of these at the fairlds.org website. Some evidences are better than others. In any case, lack of evidence does not disprove the BoM. Beyond some ancient stories, we have no evidence of a global flood, a Garden of Eden, an earth created 6000 years ago with Adam as first man, or even Abraham! We barely have evidence of King David. Yet there have been more archaeologists crawling over the hills of Palestine for a much longer time than over all the hills of North and South America combined. Just this past year, archaeologists stated they "think" they've found David's palace. We're talking about a very small area around Jerusalem, but it has taken them over a century of digging to find it? And then we wonder why people are so impatient with BoM archaeology? First, most archaeologists are not looking for evidence of the BoM, while they may seek evidence of Biblical stories. Second, most Mesoamerican digs have only gone to the Classic Mayan era, which is post-Book of Mormon. In Maya lands, it is very common to build one civilization on top of the next, with some 5 and more levels deep. Instead of building new temples, kings would often just build a new level on an old temple. Just how can we find things if we do not clear everything down to bare rock, and be looking at things in terms of BoM? As for the things you mentioned, they may have been rarer than you think, with the majority of weapons being of wood and obsidian, perhaps with metal decoration. Quote: Not one single city has ever been located that is mentioned within the Book of Mormon. Now look at the big cities in the Bible. Those places still stand, Ram: This PROVES that you have not done any research, but only looked at anti-LDS sites. Of the hundreds of Biblical place names, only about 25% have been discovered. Those places still stand in the Bible, simply because they've never gone away. It is a red herring or strawman argument you make here. As it is, the Book of Mormon DOES have evidence here. In the Arabian peninsula, we've found the place Nahom, which was primarily lost to the world for centuries. LDS scholars are pretty sure they've discovered the Valley of Lemuel and the Arabian Bountiful, as well. Then, place names in Mesoamerica have been found, such as "Lamanai" and "Qumarkah" (sounds like Cumorah), as well as others. Sorry again this is a weak argument and your opinion. Where is your evidence here? You still have not addressed my point. Finding 25% of Biblical sites seems like a pretty good number to me. How many BoM sites have been found? Have these Arabian peninsula "finds" been documented in scholarly journals or do we find discussion about them only in Meridian Magazine and the websites of touts who run "Book of Mormon Land" cruises? Youknow what sounds even MORE like Cumorah? The Comoros Islands (called Camora in Joseph Smith's time), the capital of which is Moroni. Oh, and JS, Sr. had an investment in goods that he lost because the ship carrying the goods was shipwrecked on the Comoros Islands. But, yeah, "Qumarkah" in Mesoamerica is a far more likely source for the Book of Mormon name. Oh and lets not forget JS's fascination with pirates and buried treasure. Oh, and did you know that Captain Kidd, a pirate that JS read widely about, once took on crew and repaired his ship at Comoros? Hmmmm. Quote: The Book of Mormon claims domesticated cattle, oxen, sheep, swine and goats. “None” of these animals existed in the American in the pre-Columbian era. Ram: It is possible that limited numbers of these animals were available. Or it is possible that names used in the BoM were approximated to what the Nephites recognized from the Old World. When Pizarro arrived with his horses, they were called, "deer" or "llama" by the Incans. Llamas did extend into Mesoamerica centuries ago, as did tapirs, bison, goats, boar, and other animals that could have qualified. Quote: The Book of Mormon has “3,100” direct and near direct quotes from the King James Version of the Bible. Not only a obvious plagiarism, but another anachronism as well. Ram: Plagiarism occurs only when there is no attribution. So you are wrong here, as well. As for the Isaiah and other quotes, I've noted in other threads how this is actually evidence FOR the BoM. Nephi and others used the writings in the Brass Plates as a witness for their teachings. Nephi said he had three witnesses of Christ: himself, his brother Jacob, and Isaiah. Then he quotes Jacob and Isaiah, and then expounds upon their writings with his own. This is also found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, where many of the writings are expansions of Biblical writings. These scrolls, such as the Hosea Commentary, quote a prophet, then explains it according to the understanding of the Qumran community. The Bible also uses this format, such as when Jude quotes the Book of Enoch, or Isaiah 2 quotes Micah 4. So, if you are going to use this as evidence that the Book of Mormon is false, then you may as well discredit the Dead Sea Scrolls and Bible, as well. Quote: I am sorry but if it was directly translated from God and is the truest book then these problems would not exist. I dont care if he was only human God is not. You know, I could go on and I have spent a long time pondering and researching this. It is not something that happened over night. I have read as I stated apologists views on these along with many other problems with early history of the church. The problem with aplogist views is that to the devoted member it sounds great ans strenghtens them but to the open minded doubter who have read all the details see that these apologists miss out valuable words which change the meaning of a paragraph by a huge amount. A Typical example would be the 1981 Ensign defense of the Kinerhook plates which again proves Jospeh was not who we think. Sorry. These are my views and just doing as requested. Sorry, but I'm not convinced that you studied anything beyond the anti-LDS writings. Too many of the things onyour list show a lack of any study whatsoever, but continue to be spouted by the anti-Mormon crowd. I have no problem with someone actually doing the research and stating that some LDS "evidences" are weak or missing. But you actually included areas that are totally falsifiable (such as no cities/locations being found) by archaeological standards.

Rameumtum, please dont asume that I have not done the research. I have stated many times that I have read both arguments. You do not know me and do not know of my struggles. You call my views miscoseptions. I also think your views are misconseptions, typical TBM/Apologist reponses tbh. When I read your thought on VoTH, all credibility went out the window. Even BH. Roberts could see the huge parallels. You just refuse to look beyond your testimony. It is fact that the parallels are startling and your statement proves you have done no research. Actually, you are pretty darned insulting. You have a very closed mind and will stop at nothing to hold on to your belief no matter the overwhelming evidences. Try digging deeper regarding Jospeh and you will see he isnt the man you have been taught about. Just think for a sec, you may have been deceived! I do not know you and do not pretent to even know of your chosen profession but I can only assume that you are not a leader in the field of Genetics, Archaeology and Anthropology. If you are then I take that all back. However I have read, viewed and listened to such people (I really have you know!), people without any problems against the church and they all conclude the things I have mentioned are serious issues for the church. The problem is that the "Valid responses" to my issues are from Mormon apologists and not independant professionals, unlike much of the information I use. Heck, the church need more people like B.H Roberts that openly admitted to these problems. Poor old Thomas Ferguson, dedicated much of his adult life trying to archaelogically prove the BoM. He even got funding to set up an Archaeology unit at BYU. He was absolutely positive that in 10 years he would have all he needed. Guess how much he unearthed? Thats right nothing. You know, I had a really long response ready but now I just cannot be bothered. You stand by your testimonies and that I respect. At the end of the day we will have to agree to disagree on our issues. I am not going to come back here, I see little point. I am fed up with people assuming far too much and pretending their answers are all the proof that is needed. Those are my departing words. Goodbye.

When I pondered it's truthfulness the fact that it may just be an elaborate story never even occured to me. At that time I was "Converted" in as much as I believed that Joseph Smith had that vision. I am a very open minded person. The BoM had to be true because how could any man write such a book? Extensive research has shown me he could. Still I persevered with my attempts to gain a testimony of this book becasue of what the leaders told us. Years passed and I was still devoted to the church but still that testimony never came. I taught from the BoM as Gosepl Doctrine teacher which I served in for 2 years which I was excited to do becasue I thought that would be my way of getting that testimony. I tried to read it along with the student manual. I even asked the relief society in my Ward if I could gatecrash their scripture study institute class they were running. So I really did try I think. As to the errors in the book that Jospeh said is "the truest book on the earth". It just amazes me how something so true can contain so many factual errors. Things that cannot be proved at all. However these are the problems: DNA genetic studies have proven that 98.9% of the American Indians came from Asia, not the Middle East as the Book of Mormon claims The entire pretext, basic story line, for the Book of Mormon was written by Ethan Smith (unrelated to Joseph Smith) in 1823 and taken from a book called "View of the Hebrews" The Book of Mormon states they used what amounts to “coins” and even describe the different sizes, weights and values relative to food. The Gold and Silver pieces even had names such as “Senine, Seon, Strum, Limnah, Shiblon, amnor, ezrom etc.”. They were exchanged for goods and services just as we exchange our coinage/money today. Yet to date not one single “coin” has ever been found in all the archeology on the American Continent. (Alma 11:5-10) Horses and chariots, pulled by horses, are all through the Book of Mormon, yet horses did not exist on the Pre-Columbian American continent Not a single steel sword, breastplate, metal sheild, helmet or “metal” arrow tip has ever been found on the American continent. No evidences of the wastes that go along with this complex insdustry has been unearthed. Elephants did not exist Not one single city has ever been located that is mentioned within the Book of Mormon. Now look at the big cities in the Bible. Those places still stand, The Book of Mormon claims domesticated cattle, oxen, sheep, swine and goats. “None” of these animals existed in the American in the pre-Columbian era. The Book of Mormon has “3,100” direct and near direct quotes from the King James Version of the Bible. Not only a obvious plagiarism, but another anachronism as well. I am sorry but if it was directly translated from God and is the truest book then these problems would not exist. I dont care if he was only human God is not. You know, I could go on and I have spent a long time pondering and researching this. It is not something that happened over night. I have read as I stated apologists views on these along with many other problems with early history of the church. The problem with aplogist views is that to the devoted member it sounds great ans strenghtens them but to the open minded doubter who have read all the details see that these apologists miss out valuable words which change the meaning of a paragraph by a huge amount. A Typical example would be the 1981 Ensign defense of the Kinerhook plates which again proves Jospeh was not who we think. Sorry. These are my views and just doing as requested.

Thank you. Whilst carrying out my research I have been very very careful where I have looked. Most of my concerns are located in old church history. Things that well know figures of the church have stated, early church newspaper articles etc and more specifiaclly what Joseph Smith did etc. I have also had the common sense to study and ponder the apologetic answers to my concers on FAIR etc. Some of the aplogetic stuff is ok and made me see some concerns in a new light but other stuff they come up with is just embarrassing for the writers and the church. In all honesty, I have during my research come across anti mormon stuff and much of it is again plucked from church documntation so it's not reall "anti" but again much of it is just rediculous and laughable.

Thank you, I was expecting to be flamed somewhat. Most of you probably think to yourselves "why does this guy come here if he no longer believes" or something similar and I wouldnt blame you for thinking that. Maybe I should not post here. But I do want to explain why I do com eif I may. Firstly, the church has been a huge part of my life for the last 15 years. It was my life and it's something you cant just lock away and forget. Second, my wife and 3 young kids aged 6,8 and 3 all attend their meetings. My wife is a dedicated member who does not ever miss her meetings, Sundays and midweek. She does everything expected of her. She is a good wife and mother even though she is hard on herself. She is strong and sees the good in the church which in some resepects I do also. So Im still interested in what members have to say etc. Third, as a thanks to my wife I decided a few weeks ago I would attend once per month. Just to help her out with the kids. She appreciated that a lot as do the kids. It is also nice to catch up with old friends. I do try and be considerate to your beliefs and respect them but my own beliefs are as real to me as yours are (everyone here). As I said to my wife last night. "If living this way makes you happy then more power to you". My beef has never been with the members and never will be. Most Mormons I know of are great, loving and thoughtful and are genuinely wanting to help me.

When i 1st started to earnestly enquire about the validity of th BoM, stress was not even a factor. THe burdons of trying to live a good life although hard I just accepted so I had a sound, calm mind back then. So that was not clouding ant kind of answer I can assure you. As for what I feel when I do read it well, I dont feel anthing. Does it make sense? Got to be honest not a chance, how can it when it contains so many errors and incorrect statements? It just cannot be correct. Sorry, just being honest with you with my beliefs.

Likewise, I dont want to offend and no I am not depressed. Very very angry yes but not depressed. I cannot pretend the things I know about Joseph Smith never happened. I cannot pretend that the historical, archaelogical, genetic, anthropology problems of the BoM are not presenet. I cannot pretend the he HPGL phones me up and tells me my salvation is in jeopardy and that I will soon be a lonely old man when my wife and children leave me and that becasue of my lack of gospel tuition in the home will result in my girls getting pregnant at a young age didnt happen. I cannot pretend that becasue of years of pretending and carrying a huge amount of buredon and guilt every single day of my membership resulted in 2 horrible stress related illness's which will most likely stay with me until I die didnt actually happen. Yea, I have seen my GP many times, had many tests and all my problems are stress related. The church was the source of my stress. Many blessing told me I would be healed and I believed them I really did but that healing never came. Oh and I see you are only trying to help and I take no offense.

No, you are not angels and neither is my wife.

I never said God "OWES" me a miracle as you just stated. Edit - Yea he owes me a miracle if thats how you want to put it. He never gave me that witness when I earnestly prayed to know and believe me, I have spent a long time enquiring. Why withhold the witness from me but freely give to millions of others? He still never gave me a witness when at the end of my teather after reading about early church history and watching everything fall apart around me. Watching my wife entering depression becasue if my dissafection, asking if the church was true after all. All I felt was emptiness. NOTHING. Yea he owes me alright. If the church and BoM are true then I excpect conformation.

Justamere10, thanks for taking the time to reply to my post. However, my problems with the church and Joseph Smith run far too deep and have done for some time. Nothing short of God coming down and telling me it's true would change my mind and we all know that wont happen. I just cannot accept the evidence being the book itself. I just cant.

LnF. I have been a member around 15 years and for most of that was very much dedicated in what I was doing. Fully active, always did my home teaching, attending ALL my meetings. Studied, prayed all the time. I regualarly attended the temple but never once did I ever get confirmation that the BoM was true. But, I really did try. In the end I just ended up assuming it must be true if I believed Joseph was a prophet and the church was true. I also knew an indiviudual, a sincere, good person who so desperately wanted to know if the BoM was true. He was a lifelong member and dedicated missionary but wanted his own personal testimony. He spent many months pouring out his heart to Heavenly Father desperately seeking confirmation of it's validity. He got nothing until one day when the asnwer clearly came to him. He had a powerful witness that it was not true and the path he was treading was not what God wanted. Fast forward a little and he has now left the church and I am close to doing the same thing.

I have never really looked into the Adam-God theory personally so I am unsure if Brigham was the prophet at the time he said this or not. What do you know about this?

"Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the Garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days, about whom holy men have written and spoken-He is our father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do." However, During a Priesthood session of conference in October of 1976, Spencer W. Kimball labeled Brigham's teaching "false doctrine." He stated, "We warn you against the dissemination of doctrines which are not according to the scriptures and which are alleged to have been taught by some General Authorities of past generations, such, for instance is the Adam-God theory. We denounce that theory and hope that everyone will be cautioned against this and other kinds of false doctrine" (Church News, 10/9/76). In light of all the evidence to the contrary, to say the Adam-God teaching was only alleged to have been taught causes tremendous credibility problems on the part of Kimball.

I will give my own requirement for proof that I would need before again beleiving in the authenticity of the BoM. 1. I would excpect huge cities such as Zarahemla or Bountiful to still stand or atleast evidence of these cities. Afterall Jerusalem does. 2. I would expect some kind of references to these cities to be found, anything. 3. I would expect some references to names found in the BoM. Lehi, Nephi etc. 4. I would expect to have some evidences of the mass battles that took places there, especially Hill Cumorah where millions died. 5. I would expect swords, scimitars, shields, brestplates, arrows, chariots etc to have been found in vast quantities. I would have excpected atleast 1 arrow head. Even a charriot wheen or evidences of wheels. 6. I would expect to find evidences of the technology behind all the metallurgy that apparently happened back then. 7. I would excpet to have found some kind of evidence to back up Nephi's claim of building a temple patterned after solomns. Nothing has ever been found to back this up. 8. I would excpet to have found many many skeletons of horses that according to the BoM were spread throughout the land. Even a painting on a wall. Basically, there really should be evidences of a mass population, in huge quantities but there is not.

I would love to be in a position where I were able to say that "spiritual feelings" are enough to keep my testimony of the Book of Mormon intact and rescue my family from the grief I am causing them but I am unable to do this. I just cannot do it. To me there are too many errors, Its like everything that is mentioned in there has been swallowed up leaving no traces. Is it plausable the God has hidden everything as part of the test of faith? I don't think so. I wish it was true though, then I wouldnt be in this dark, lonely place.

Glad to hear my opinion does not hurt your feelings. Im not here to cause trouble. I just have my own opinions as do you and I respect everyone beliefs. My research and my conclusion has not happened over night. My study has been relentlless, almost hobby like. I have read the remarks to the common issues on fairlds etc but they are not convincing. Even when it comes down to the witness's I have information from good sources which puts serious doubt on that being as we understand it. Just go out and research it, its there to be found and to ponder. Now, I have been told time and time again by friends and family and the likes of online communities that they had a spiritual witness about the truthfulness of the church and the BoM, I once would have said the same thing. But what about the millions upon millions of catholics, baptists, protestants, Jehovas Wtness's, budhists, Sikhs, Moslims that claim to have a witness of the truthfulness of their own faith? What makes us any different? What about the people that have earnestly prayed and asked if the church is true only to be told no and lead away? Specifically investigators? About my own beliefs...well at the moment I just dont know. I will say I am not atheist. I cannot truly answer that yet. I just cannot see how I can believe in a so called prophet that clearly got the translation of the papyrus wrong and gave us the Book of Abraham which is now scripture to us. The papyrus wa a funeral document about a priest called Hor. Absolutely nothing to do with Abraham whatsoever. A lot of our doctrine comes from there.

I am sorry and I really dont want to hurt anyones feelings but the Book of Morman to me is just an immense hoax. There is absolutely nothing at all to back up its validity. Where is Zarahamla for instance? Why have they not found millions of bodies at Camorah. Where are all the weapons of war? Massive poulations have been wiped out and not a single trace of them have been left behind. Please dont bring up the Mayan ruins etc. There are a lot of huge problems in the Book of Mormon and if it is "the most correct book on earth" as Joseph said it was then something is seriously wrong here.

I am still a member but teetering on resignation but I can guarantee it has absolutely nothing at all to do with sin and everything to do with doctrine and history.