Fiannan

You seem to confirm Freud's view that our marriage relationship is merely a projection of needs created when we were 4-6 years of age. Your husband therefore represents your father (and one would assume at the age of 4 you want everything for yourself). Perhaps the people who CAN and WISH to practice plural marriage are not as attached to that particular stage of life and can progress. To be able to live in such an environment requires a spirit not focused on the self and focused more on the community you have created. Also, bizabra, you list your religion as humanist. I would then assume that you must leave all issues of "morality" and what is "right and wrong" up to the individual. So you must have no problems with polygamy being allowed as an option for those wishing to participate in it.

Deuteronomy 21: 15-17 21:15 If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated: 21:16 Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn: 21:17 But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his. "And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things." 2 Samuel 12:8. So, uh...who blessed David with his WIVES?

So...?

http://www.startribune.com/stories/1526/5783040.html Okay, I myself do see the hypocracy of feminism. When I went to college a popular men's magazine advertised for young women wanting to pose on their pages. Feminists protested. Yes, they had the audacity to protest. These same feminists would probably say a woman has the right to sleep with another woman or, if she does stoop so low as to have sex with a man, and gets pregnant, she should be allowed to have an abortion. But pose naked for male (and I suppose a significant number of female) readers? How horrible. However, it is interesting that 60s/70s era feminism (your body, your rights) has evolved into stripping, porn and other "female expressions of self-empowement". Gotta admit, this article does bring up some interesting points.

Mongol conquests -- 40 million dead. Was this religiously motivated? Also, please try to back up the claim that Christianity has been the force for killing more people than any other religion. How many have died at the hands of atheism? How many have died at the hands of Islam?

Islamic perspective: http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/w_c...rison_full2.htm Very interesting and intelligent perspective on polygamy.

Because it is politically incorrect to bash Catholics and Jews nowadays. Mormons are considered a legitimate target. When Mormon numbers grow (along with economic and political clout) anti-Mormons will, for the most part, ignore Mormons altogether out of fear of social condemnation.

My understanding is that traditional Jewish thought on the commandment to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth meant just that -- one son and one daughter is not even replacement in real terms, much less multiplication. Here's some sites that might show what traditional Jewish life patterns were like (and are like for the orthodox believers): http://www.somethingjewish.co.uk/articles/...ul_and_mult.htm http://www.birthsource.com/scripts/article.asp?articleid=60 http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/NipponDawn/torah.html Strange, Protestant Christian thought was pretty much in concensus on the desirability to raise large families and avoid birth control until the general secularization of Protestantism in the mid 20th. Century.

Leaders of Russia, Sweden, Spain, Italy, Japan, Singapore, South Korea, Germany, Australia, Estonia, and even former Fed chairman Alan Greenspan have warned of dangerous consequences if birthrates don't rise.

I believe what Jesus was referring to was that children naturally accepted him -- so in a sense he was talking of children in a universal form. By offending, the traditional interpretation has been to harm the child -- and in a manner that I believe would be considered criminal -- not feed him so much sugar that he looks like the fat boy on "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory".

So would Jesus actually condemn our criminal justice system for not allowing execution for adults who rape children?

Because if a family can make it with 17 it is an inspiration to those who question being able to make it with 4 or 5 or even more. I do not have 17 kids, but I respect this family for doing so.

Eew, sgallan I cannot even believe you would say such a thing. Taoist Saint, I understand what you are saying, but I will note that Jesus never actually condemned the use of the death penalty -- just its use as a method to punish someone for sins that the persons holding the rocks had actually taken part in themselves. I do not believe Arnold or any member of the California criminal justice system that sentenced Tookie has ever committed murder.

Well, funkyfool416 should not be burnt at the stake. She's more than welcome to post here and all. I've seen some dumb comments here and some brilliant comments here on this forum. Everyone should be welcome.

He murdered 4 people in cold blood. That settles it in my books. He was given a fair trial, appeals and in the end even Arnold said he had to pay the price.

Never said you should have 17. All I said was this is a remarkable family and that the birthrate might rise if people saw such families as examples of what can be done. Why be so defensive? Also, this is an LDS oriented forum and I believe the position of the LDS Church is such that large families are a blessing (just the same position as the Bible).

And if such a life is worse than death, why did Tookie fight so hard to get away from execution?

"Grandma got run over by a riendeer" is pretty good. Wierd Al's "The night Santa went crazy" is a hit as well. http://www.com-www.com/weirdal/thenightsantawentcrazy.html http://www.always-safe.com/grandma.html

Hoax: http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/quran911.asp Sorry -- sounds neat and all but it just isn't true.

How many people in and out of prison are at risk of being killed by Tookie at this time?

http://www.kxtv.com/storyfull2.aspx?storyid=14826 Hey, they even have the family I linked to a couple of months ago beat. I was just in Russia -- it would be great if people there (and in the Ukraine) followed this family's example -- the birthrate there is way too low, as it is in the USA, Europe, Japan and Australia. Putin is doing his best to institute pro-natalist policies and the birthrate is finally rising. More power to Russia at success at this goal!

Again, you appear to be projecting all your motivations upon your child. I really hope that you are not turning him into a mirror image of yourself. Judging from your posts you appear to show certain signs of narcissisistec personality disorder (nned for constant affirmation, alothough on a superficial level, lashing out at anyone who disagrees with you -- in a nasty way I might add, as well as dispensing with the "us v. them" and making your posts seem like an "I vs. them". Please, Sgallan, try to lighten up and maybe not take yourself so seriously, if that's possible.

Ever read Paul Vitz's "The psychology of atheism"?

Like wow, man, I like killed a bug the other day...does that count? Sgallan, for I don't know, the last few thousand years, Jewish and Christian scholars have always interpreted the scriptures (in reference to killing) to be dealing with taking innocent blood. Soldiers in war are not accountable as they are fighting opponents who would kill them otherwise. Non-combatants sometimes get killed -- but in Christian societies one would expect that innocents would not be targeted.

Alma chapter 1 -- what is the view of capital punishment in regards to the Book of Mormon prophets?