Fiannan

I think people should see each other's pictures at least. However, I think such a couple has as good a chance as any other. I personally think online meetings are far more superior to the current singles program the Church has. This is especially true for people that don't fit the cookie cutter norm. At least in LDS dating sites you can just let people know who you are without putting on any show and maybe you will meet someone you normally would never encounter.

To hear liberals talk, you'd think homosexuals were the victims of oppression and an uncaring society. They must suffer psychologically, physically and economically. They don't seem to be doing so bad: http://funreports.com/fun/16-01-2006/1320-homosexual-0 This story deals with if a person suddenly was given 100,000 dollars and what differences would exist in spending preferences between heterosexuals and homosexuals. Actually, homosexuals tend to have a lot of buying power. That makes sense as the vast majority of male homosexuals have no kids and, if they live with someone, have two incomes. Same is true of virtual homosexuals (double-income no kid heterosexual couples who have chosen not to have kids). At least as materialism and hedonism goes such people have certain economic ADVANTAGES over those who are more traditional. Doesn't sound like oppression though.

How does the Church feel about animal sacrifice? It is against the law where I live. It is something that God has discontinued, but is it immoral?

My intention for debating this issue is a) demonstrate that the scriptures are not anit- polygamy, B) demonstrate that polygamy might serve a purpose in modern society, and c) open up discussion on the foundations of beliefs for and agaist polygamy. Just want to get that out there. Now while I believe many men might fantasize about multiple sex partners at once (as do many if not most women) most people don't take that to the logical step of what it would be like to be married to all those people (in at least a living sense). Yeah, men might like two women, but not to have throughout life and not raising big families. Yeah, Mormon, orthodox Jewish and Muslim men might, but I doubt if your typical man would see this as a lifestyle choice. They are much too selfish. Now correct me if I am wrong, but I would assume most LDS polygamists in the 19th. Century only had sex with one woman at a time. I believe Muslims would also only have coupling since it is considered a sin for a woman to see another woman's genitilia as it is a sin for a man to see another man naked. So that gets rid of the pornographic fantasy for both males and females if they are into the idea for the orgy factor. Polygamist marry minors? True, Mohammed married a 9 year old, but did not have sex with her until she reached puberty. In most societies 100 years ago, even here, marriage to women in their mid-teens was not seen as strange (how old is the princess in Sleeping Beauty which was produced in 1960 -- that's right, 16, and no public outcry about her getting married). Now the idea of breeding women and selecting their husbands when they are 14 does not appeal to me in the least. Yet if a woman who is a few years older wants to marry then that's fine -- and it should not matter if it is to a polygamist or not once polygamy is legal here. The LDS position on polygamy is interesting because if you read between the lines carefully there is no condemnation of polygamy as immoral -- only something the Church does not allow. And the theme of civil law is brought up time and time again. Once polygamy is legalized then what? The reasons given by president Woodruff on why it was best to give up polygamy was that God recognized that on a cost benefit analysis basis the Gospel could not have gone forth if the government had waged continued war on the LDS and confiscated all Church property and property belongiing to polygamists.

Of course, if that had been my second oldest son he would have got in front of the class, admitted it, waved a Confederate flag and (when his classmates were cheering) thanked the teacher for the opportunity to address the class on an important social issue. Just can't imagine where he gets it from... As for the bisexual thing I have addressed the reasons for this before. The first is that (believe it or not) girls look at pornography on the internet as much as guys (maybe not as many hours, but they do access it as many times). And what is the most popular feature on general porn sites? Either threesomes (one male, two females) or two females. This not only provides temptation but also a form of legitimization via visual means. It also doesn't help that guys, even the most anti gay ones, generally consider female bisexuality a turn on. Combine this with educational programs designed to make gay okay, and the media (i.e. music videos, films -- anyone see Starsky and Hutch when the two cheerleaders were at Starsky's house and...? -- etc. which makes bisexual female sex seem hot and natural and it is no surprise this is the case.

I love math questions Aristotle. Would the answer be "Hitlery Clinton"?

If I believed ADHD was an organic condition I would have to believe many people in this forum suffer from a major case of it. Kinda strange how a thread on polygamy turns into a thread debating whether Emma Smith and some other wife got into a cat fight -- prove they did, prove they didn't. Sheeeeeezzzzz! Then here polygamy turns into a discussion of homosexuality? Can't people keep their attention better than this?

So what would this prove anyway, that two church women got into a cat fight? Personally I have never really paid much attention to Emma Smith.

Depends, was his sister actually there?

Canadian study urges legalization of polygamy. A new trend? http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...NStory/National Also, can someone find what the policy in the Church is towards converts who might be polygamist?

Perhaps exceptions are made. In Sweden the Church does not use the King James Bible. So different countries and cultures might be seen in different ways.

I have wondered about that though. My son's barber is Turkish and claims his brother is Mormon, lives in Turkey and has two wives. I suspected he was lying as I didn't think there were Mormon Turks but then I was reading that in the late 1800s and early 1900s there were branches in Turkey. Maybe he was telling the truth. I know several large Protestant denominations allow 3rd. World converts to their religion (who have multiple wives) to keep them. Doesn't the LDS Church also allow this? After all, divorce aside for some major reasons, is a sin according to the Bible, polygamy is not.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4610396.stm Well, it would give a different image to polygamy. In the US polygamist women tend to wear Amish-style clothing. In the Middle East they wear viels. If Russia would legalize it then we could expect to see a Russian man with several women (the women dressed in high heels, mine-skirts and fur coats -- standard wear for young Russian women). This would also encourage some of our polygamists to learn Russian -- I have seen polygamist personals sites on the net, but most probably reach only English speakers.

I am not sure about this. Let's say someone commits fornication when they are 18, repent, get married, stay away from compromising situations, then their husband dies when she is 55. In a state of lonliness a guy she is good friends with and her have sex. Can you say she is an unrepentant individual because she has fornicated twice (and she had a lustful heart in reality for 3 decades)? I have heard people say that this is the case but I really don't agree. Even our earthly court of laws say you should be tried and convicted for a crime once -- not serve your time (for example bank robbery) but then swipe an apple from the neighbor's yard, get convicted of petty theft, and then have to serve your time over from the robbery and the apple incident.

"Hardy ever.." ????? Sorry Snow, couldn't resist.

If you define abortion as child murder then call me a fruitcake if you would like -- the feminist agenda treats abortion as a sacrament, the cornerstone of the Constitution and it's the feminists who said that you cannot have social equality unless you have reproductive equality (and since women are the ones who get pregnant that means abortion has to exist). And from my readings most feminists are not into black magic, but are quite positive to goddess worship and WICCA. I have even heard some feminists say that all religions founded by men should be avoided by women -- and what does that leave? I guess even worse is that Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Buddism and Hinduism were all founded by white men. The horrors!!!

Snow states of Pat Robertson: A great documentary ran on one of the educational channels a few years back and was filled with the occult/Nazi connection. Hitler was a New Age Paganist/agnostic who was quite willing to use the Christian religion if it served his ends but ready to stamp it out if it did not. And many of the leaders of the Brown Shirts (i.e. Ehrnst Rohm) and quite a few in upper leadership of the Nazi Party were homosexual. As for satanism and homosexuality going together I am not sure, but on the other points... Now as for Robertson I think if you are looking for a great book on putting the power of faith into practice I would suggest looking up his book "The Secret Kingdom". He seems to write in a way similar to Neal Maxwell overall. A friend of mine that is LDS and worked on the Robertson presidential campaign knew of at least one LDS bookstore in my state that carried Robertson's books -- wouldn't surprise me since Robertson has been accused of being a closet Mormon on more than one occasion.

There are three main ethnic divisions in Mexico -- a very small portion made up of Europeans (about 4%) mostly Spanish but some Irish (like their current president Vincente Fox). Then there are the Mestizos (mixed Indian and European) who make up around 70%. The rest are Indians -- usually in remote villages and in the south. To be a Mestizo is considered higher on the social ladder than Indian. Indians are subjected to racism and are still expected to do the low skilled labor. This group has fast population growth and high unemployment. Then ther are illegal aliens flooding across Mexico's border from central American nations (usually Indian as well). Mexico is not really anxious to have illegals returned for obvious reasons. As for my definition of a Lamanite I might go for a very lose definition -- someone who can trace any ancestory back to the original Nephite/Lamanite people. I suppose a broad stroke would also place me there but I think for all extensive purposes most people would say Mestizo and Indians are both Lamanites so perhaps this is a profecy being fulfilled.

Wow Jason, quite impressive. I found his article quite analytical and well substantiated. If you would like more details with enough data to satisfy you then do a google search for demographics expert Ben Wattenberg. And while you may not like his politics (or maybe you do, I don't know) you could also look up Buchanan's work "Death of the West".

Don't know what you mean by that. Knew a Latino gal who had been a member of a Latino youth gang as a youth. Used to tell of her fights with black gangs (even show off her scars) . Didn't seem to be much love coming from her on that issue. Also, if you know anything about Latino culture you would also recognize that Mestizos are not fond of Indians.Racism exists in all cultures and all peoples. I gather you may be into Asian culture but can you seriously deny that many/most Asians are incredibly racist towards people even of their own racial (but not ethnic) background?

Wow, if given that kind of choice I would have to place it in the context of if I were a sperm doner and had a choice of having my donation either going to a lesbian couple who were atheistic, drank too much, belonged to a left-wing party and were materialistic or to a traditional (not radical) Islamic couple. I would choose my seed to live Islamic -- at least then they would honor God and have the values of the Bible (at lest the Old Testament). In that way I guess I have little if any respect for modern-day humanistic/materialistic European culture. My preference would be that Eastern European Christians would suddenly have a boom in their birthrate and overrun and replace western Europeans. However that is probably not going to happen. I would hope that there are enough Euros to reject so-called modeern culture and return to traditional values, increase their birthrate and replace the tired old left wingers. For that to happen Euros need to recognize the problems that confront them but most live in a state of denial (well, their government and media at least).

Are you saying whites are the only racists in this country?

They did not kill every single Nephite -- only the vast majority that would not denounce their faith. In this sense it was like when the Turkish Muslims overran Constantinople (now Istanbul) they slaughtered every single person who would not pledge allegiance to them. Quite a bloodbath I understand. There are writings of the Cherokee and Mandan tribes as witnessed by the early explorers as being much lighter (even blond) than other tribes. There are also depictions of quite light people with non-traditional Indian features in Meso America. I also knew a guy who was half Lakota (father was white, mother was full-blooded Indain). He grew up on a reservation and was picked on a lot because out of his large family he was born with blond hair and blue eyes (genetically impossible unless some of thoese traits existed in his mother's line). Here is an interesting site to look at: http://www.cherokeenationmexico.com/history.html http://www.cherokeenationmexico.com/religion.html

That may be true but if all remains equal as it is (no nuke war, etc.) the population of the west will be replaced. Here it will be less traumatic as the Lamanites replace the unrightious gentile populations (predicted in the Book of Mormon if the gentiles turned from God) but in Europe the main source of immigrants to push them around in their wheelchairs are Islamic and that could radically change the dynamics of western Europe.

Very true Aristotle: Even the Book of Mormon says the gentile peoples can have this land until they reject God, and then the Lamanites will take it back. Isn't it ironic that since 1973 and the legalization of abortion about the same number of immigrants (mostly of Indian blood -- they are treated better here than by the racist Mexican society) and offspring have come here/been born to these people as the number of abortions? Also, statistically your toddler has a much greater chance of drowning in a mop bucket than being abducted and killed. But such accidental deaths rarely make the newspaper.