Fiannan

Que Sera states: Actually, I it depends on how you see "God's laws". I would say that you have to examine Biblical precident to see if polygamy would be a violation of God's laws. I would then say that if you held a court hearing to determine polygamy in relation to God's laws as spelled out in the Bible, and the Bible was your standard, the court would have overwhelming evidence to say that polygamy was in line with God's laws. The Church position is very similar to Ashkenazi Jewry's view on polygamy. The practice was suspended by the leading rabbis in (I believe) the 16th. Century not because it was contrary to the Torah or Talmud but because it exposed Jews to persecution from European Christians. The LDS position is not that it is immoral or a violation of God's laws but that it is contrary to an important policy of the Church which was inspired of God for the benefit of members living in this aspect of existence. There is a distinction here that is important -- polygamy is not compared to adultery or fornication (which you can also be excommunicated for). Polygamy is a practice that has been temporarily suspended on earth (although a man can be sealed to many women in Heaven if he has been divorced civily or has had wives die). As for it working better today than in agrarian societies of the past, I think that is very apparent. If a man would marry a wife who is a commited stay at home mother type she will have more kids than, let's say her best friend who would rather have a career but also would like kids. However, if the man was married to both the career-oriented woman could have built-in daycare from a much more nurturing souorce than a pay-to-care business. This would allow the second wife to have more kids than would be expected if she did not marry or if she married and had to rely on day-care or just quit working outside the home. This might be good for making sure women with a lot of ambition or so high an IQ that she might find it difficult (in modern society) to settle down and raise 4 or more kids. So the benifit of polygamy is much greater for the kind of woman desiring children AND a demanding career.

I really don't get it. Why do these polygamists insist on moving to states that are generally conservative and may launch attacks on them? Move to northern California or Oregon -- heck, nobody will give them a second notice. If the Shasta region of California might be too expensive they should look into the hill areas around Eugene and south of it -- especially in the coastal mountains. Thanks to the radical environmentalists there are many small towns devoid of young families (due to closing down of small timber operations due to court overextension of the Endangered Species Act to protect the spotted owl). Ideal places to move to. Oregon has everything -- comunes that have group marriage, hippies, Wiccan co-opts, etc. Maybe they can come under cover and (so as to get favor of the local media or governments) establish little farms and make sure they work in the nude during the summers. Better yet, since you have a lot of women in these operations they can also claim to be New Age lesbians -- if anyone asks about the husband they can claim he is nothing more than their sperm doner. During the colder-rainier time periods (like late October to June) they should only wear hemp clothing or tie-dye. Shaving should also be discouraged. So as long as they are willing to call themselves a lesbian-oriented, New Age, nudist, communal experiment they will fit in very well in Oregon or northern California. They really should investigate this option.

Where are your pictures? Also, the days I was in Yangshou were free of smoke -- although the temperature dropped on the last day to the low 30's (farenheit). Beautiful place to visit -- but judging from the bathroom facilities I guess we can determine why China does turn out some really good female gymnasts.

If a bear eats a hippy in the woods, does the bear's burp make a sound if nobody is around to hear it?

I took one of those test once at BeliefNet. Said I fit most comfortably with Orthodox Judaism. Had more than a few Muslims tell me I'd make a great Muslim. Guess I must be doing something right.

The other day, while walking on the Great Wall, a couple of collegues asked me about polygamy knowing I am Mormon. I didn't do the modern "politically correct" version most people use which sounds like a whiney form of avoiding the issue. I mearly turned the issue around and asked why Christians don't practice polygamy today. As in so many cases before this opens doors to being able to show that polygamy was never immoral according to Biblical standards and also allowed me to show the current LDS position on polygamy is almost identical to European Jew's position on polygamy. It also acts to show that maybe the LDS have some extra insight that most Christianity has lost sight of. By the time I finished the people I was speaking to actually said that polygamy might make a lot of sense in modern culture and they also understood the LDS position far clearer than they previously did.

If this had happened to a mosque it would be in the national network press being reported as a hate crime.

Too bad the site doesn't have a location members could scan photographs and send them to be posted as a picture board. PS, it has become unbearably cold in China since last evening.

Would members be able to submit pictures for e-cards or display?

Ah yes, sitting here in an internet cafe surrounded by about 50 people chattering in Chinese and most playing computer games on their computers. Warm and a bit on the humid side outside. Somewhat surreal. Spent the day biking along the river and visiting remote villages where they carry produce by mule or find ways to load a ton of items on a moterbike similar to the ones you see in Vietnam movies. Never seen a waterbuffalo in use until yesterday. Shared a bit of dog meat with some friends as well as snake. They had never tried it before and they were anxious to give it a shot. Here you order the snake, they bring it to your table to see, and then they remove the head and take it back to the kitchen -- one snake was made into a stir fry and the other one wound up in a soup. Visited the local night market -- most unusual animals you could buy for dinner snacks were toad on a stick (big ones) or fried rat. Pigions on a stick looked really odd. A very interesting country with old people with no teeth riding old bicycles, with a chicken in a basket being taken home for dinner, and talking on a cell phone. Lots of contrasts as you have to watch out on the streets for old Mao tractors (imagine a lawnmower crossed with a moter scooter), bikes, pedestrians and speeding BMWs. Well, just thought I'd share a travel update.

They may be a bit on the strange side but I am VERY thankful Janet Reno is not around to save the children in the Clinton government's own special way.

Thanks. Looking forward to cheap shopping and unusual foods.

Saw an episode of Mythbusters the other day and they did a bacteria count on various location in their shop and found the toilet seat the least likely to contain bacteria. And while this may freak people out, the reason you should wash your hands after using the bathroom (at least a number 1) is because of the materials that you might touch in the bathroom. If you are not a carrier of hepatitis or similar disease that part of your body is quite clean if you shower every day. Oh, and when traveling NEVER allow people in eating establishments to put ice in your water. The western world is about the only place you can safely drink water our of the tap.

Ah don't sweat it Shanstress70 -- you didn't say anything at all that was not true. In fairness though polygamy in Judeo/Christian practice has been around thousands of years before Joseph Smith came on the scene.

Any quotes from LDS authorities on the matter? My wife is totally against spanking while I am in favor of it being an option in limited circumstances. I believe the Church has the position more in line with use it sparingly, while my wife believes the Church is totally against it. So does anyone have some light to shed?

"Big Love" -- tell me this isn't about a guy who meets his wives at Weight Watchers meetings.

Shanstress70, I have not responded yet on the spanking thread because I wanted people's opinions. Also, I am leaving for China in a couple of days and I have been busy.

I'll start: Title -- "Muslim rave party" http://www.glumbert.com/media/rave.html Anyone have any comics, funny pictures links or whatever they'd like to share?

So what are people's opinions on corporal punishment (for kids)? Does anyone have any LDS Church statements on this subject?

I remember that too. I think the worse I regret being curious over (and going to the Mike Savage website) was watching 11 Nepalese workers being murdered by Muslim extremists. I don't know who was sicker -- the guy doing the cutting or the guy holding the movie camera.

True. Christians should not act like Muslims.

I know this is very un-PC in today's society but why the heck can't airlines charge more for people who are overweight? At least allow those of us who are lighter in proportion to our height to have more carry-on and luggage weight.

Saraphin Moonshadow, not to get off topic but what did you find the best there? I've been to Beijing and some rural areas in the north but this is the first time I have been to southern China. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. :)

Uh, the studies say that low fat diets don't have an effect. I have seen studies that have shown these things reduce heart disease and cancer. 1) Exercise 2) Frequent sex 3) For women -- having babies. 4) For women, don't mess around -- cervical cancer is usually a sexually transmitted disease 5) Have a large family and keep those connections in the extended family strong 6) Moderate sun exposure (not too little, not too much) combined with a diet high in milk and other dairy products 7) Going to church 8) Love your wife/husband

I would agree with Ben too except that I think he is missing the main point of Mr. O'Donnel. The author is not saying Islam is better, just that the way they live the principles of their religion is better than Christians (as a whole) are living theirs -- especially in places like Europe. I would draw your attention to another article (not in Pravda but in the conservative publication Human Events): http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=12532 And another source saying just about the same thing: http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007760