MarginOfError

As already stated, members with same-gender attractions (commonly called homosexuals, and diminuitively called gays), so long as they do not engage in any non-marital sexual activity, are permitted all the blessings of heterosexual members, including membership, ordinances, callings, and temple worship. They are expected to live the same standards of chastity that heterosexual members are expected to live. You can confirm all this by reading: "Same Gender Attraction" Dallin H. Oaks, Ensign October 1995 "Helping Those who Struggle With Same-Gender Attraction" Jeffery R. Holland, Ensign October 2007 No one here is denying your claim that God has decreed unchaste homosexual acts a sin. The problem people have with your language is that you are so eager to declare homosexuality a sin that your language doesn't admit that same-gender attraction is not a sin. If you can make that adjustment, you'll find a great deal less hostility to your comments.

Care to uncover in all that logic, bert, why black people who join the Church are still black?

I wouldn't worry too much about knowing where that 'line' is. I was once sitting in a discussion with some elders and a young man. One of the elders was talking about visions of Christ and said to the young man, 'you're not quite ready to see the Savior.' I jumped down the elder's throat pretty quickly, telling him he had no right to tell anyone who was and wasn't ready to see the Savior. I then turned to the young man and explained that there are exactly two people who can decide if he's ready to see the Savior: the Savior, and himself. If you sincerely question your readiness to receive the kind of testimony that would leave you capable of committing so grave a sin, I don't think the Lord would be inclined to give it to you. Next time the fellow member nags you to go to the temple, tell him you would love to, and you're free to go any Monday (all temples are closed on Mondays).

LOL...trying to maintain an exit strategy I see. I can help you with that. If you don't want to cross that threshold, just do the following: 1) Miss one Sacrament meeting each month because you don't want to miss the Arena Football game. 2) Black out verses in the scriptures that make you feel guilty 3) Attend the temple no more than 4 times a year, and make sure you fall asleep during your session. 4) Try to steer every discussion in Gospel Doctrine to birth control 5) Steal cheerios from the kids in the pew in front of you Then again, Saul used to hold coats for the guys stoning the Saints, but the God and the Savior both appeared to him anyway. Guess there isn't much you can do is there. G'luck!

Actually, I was preemptively repeating what you had to say, Justice.

Ask Chris Heimerdinger. He might know. Actually the Nephites were white-skinned because they maintained all the ritual washings of the Law of Moses. The Lamanties rejected these washings, and their skin became dark as they refused to bathe as a symbol of having rejected the Gospel. That also explains why they were considered a loathsome and a filthy people.

If you want to know about my temple marriage I'll tell you all about it. I could probably describe the whole thing in 5 sentences (I'm such a romantic aren't I). :-) I have in mind things as sacred as personal manifestations of one of the Godhead. There may be other experiences, and I'm not going to try to define what the exact events could be. But I will say this, when it happens, the person knows it. If you can seriously ask yourself, "have I had an experience that would make it possible for me to deny the Spirit?" then you probably haven't.

It would not be accepting baptism. Whatever it is, it's in the spectrum of experiences that are so sacred and special that I wouldn't discuss them in public. But my point is, those kinds of experiences aren't unique to the Apostles.

Happy Hannukah Fianananianaian

I'm not sure if my words will be as clear as this is in my head, so please bear with me. The criterion is having a perfect knowledge of the existence of God and the truth of the Gospel. I won't claim to know all the ways such knowledge can be conferred, but the most obvious would be the immediate presence of a member of the Godhead.

Would a joke about how my father could beat up your father be appropriate right now?

Paul Newman's half Mormon Goldie Haun's half too Put them together What a FINE looking Saint (hmmm...doesn't rhyme anymore)

Statistically speaking, I thinkt he odds may be against single moms. But let's hope you can beat the odds. I've dated a few women that had kids. Didn't work out with any of them, for various reasons (in one case, the girl was a stripper! Talk about an awkward date). Anyway, I once even tried getting a girl 8 years older than me with two kids to go out with me. Apparently she wasn't into 23 year olds. So, there are good guys out there. Be careful with checkers though, he'll jump all over ya. :-)

Okay, I started reading it yesterday, and after only 30 pages, I'm in stitches. I was standing at the bus stop and reading yesterday, and read about how 1969 was a momentous year. I laughed so hard (in humor and shock) that I almost fell off the curb into the street. Hopefully I survive the rest of the book. I also love the literal translation from Russian into English. I can hear a lot of these phrases in Russian as I read them. So far, my favorite is, 'there are many women who are wanting to be carnal with me.' Classic! Now, don't dub me that! And now for something completely different.... 100 posts! My life dream has come true.

Your friend may have been sent to the Stake President because the Bishop might have recognized potential for Church Disciplinary Action. Disciplinary Action against Melchizedek Priesthood holders (even if the sin was before they had it conferred upon them) falls under the jurisdiction of the Stake President.

I often find myself coveting Pam's ginger bread man

I may be reading too much into this, but it looks like we may have annoyed you a little. I apologize for that, and assure that wasn't my intent. You are correct that meetings are not supposed to be video taped, recorded, or photographed without prior written consent. My comment popped into my head when I read what you'd said and it amused me enough to make me want to share it. Now, lets start looking for all the holes in stuff I say! :-)

Great comments by many! I will also echo that baptism itself does nothing to for remitting sins. Repentance is the process by which sins are remitted and baptism is the way by which we obtain Christ's guarantee that he will forgive them. I'll respectfully disagree. I think we'd all be surprised how many people are capable of committing this sin.

You may want to check out the Eternal Marriage Problems?? thread, as it deals with this topic (and a few tangents).

We used to use the only diplomatic way to solve such a dispute: rock/paper/scissors! The winner got to say the prayer!

I wouldn't be surprised if the Church's view on cremation changed over time, as the currently stated policy doesn't seem to have any foundations in doctrine, it could be that it changes as social mores within the Church change.

That's true, unless you're speaking about alternative energy. :-)

It's a done deal then. Everything Is Illuminated by Jonathan Safran Foer is July's book of the month! All the cool people are reading it! And then there's me

You failed to mention if you are categorically opposed to members of the Church wearing crosses or not. In a playful spirit, I submit the following to you. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. (Matt. 16:24) But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman, to lust after her, hath committed adultery already in his heart. Behold, I give unto you a commandment, that ye suffer none of these things to enter into your heart; For it is better that ye should deny yourselves of these things, wherein ye will take up your cross, than that ye should be cast into hell. (3 Nephi 12:28-30) And he that will not take up his cross and follow me, and keep my commandments, the same shall not be saved. (D&C 56:2)

I was making satire on the talk of divination from the cards. What's so different from laying out the cards in front of someone and asking, "what do you see" and using their response to analyze what's going on in their heads...much like psychologists do with ink blots.