kayne

the thing is in addition to Christ He has repeatedly without fail for the most part called prophets from weird strange places. in fact you'd have to be a very blind fool to not expect it to happen again heck this dispensation started off from the weird obscure place of a young a boy praying in the woods. in fact the entire the senior apostle becomes prophet by default has never happened before ever. yes he has the title of prophet but only because we put him their by sustaining him this does not mean under any circumstance he is actually a prophet. however God has said in this era all things are by common consent so God goes with it because of that and He lets us act freely. God has also said His work will not be frustrated in these latter days so we can be sure the priesthood will not get taken from the earth and the heavens will not be sealed. also latter day prophecies do state children will even have visions and dreams so we should not be expecting the head of the church to have some monopoly on this. so if God follows His pattern(and He almost always does) we can expect somebody from the realms of obscurity come out of the clear and be Gods true prophet who He called in a dream and/or persona visitation. i suspect this will be a great test of the members of the LDS church. i would wager 99% of all prophets in the history of earth did not come from a line of priestly authority. they at best have the priesthood from the church but very rarely are in the elite group of priests and if by some chance they are like Alma the older(the first Alma) they instantly get cast out and kicked out. furthermore all prophets need to have their election made sure in a vision. God tells this to moses point blank. furthermore each prophet you read about in the scriptures by and large says The Lord called me. they seem to have some sure fire knowledge that God personally made the call. again you cannot just senior your way into the role of prophet as God must call you the other thing is to be a prophet one must act like a prophet well using scripture logic if we test the prophet powers of the current GAs they sort of fall short. ive been looking(and maybe someone can link this if they have the answer) but they have a total lack of prophecies, revelations, translations, and seering. ive looked but i cant find them doing any of this. and scripture tells us to test things by their fruit so a prophet should bear the fruit of a prophet. as a final point....follow the prophet is a false philosophy. follow the prophet only if they point back to Christ is the correct phrase. but there are two things that must go on in that phrase for it to work.....one the person must actually be a prophet(scriptures tell us it would be great if we could all be prophets so i dont necessarily mean THE prophet)....and the person must use this prophet power to point back to Christ. in essence he will never ever say follow me. he will say follow Christ. so when you get people saying follow a man even THE prophet....you can be sure they are wolves in sheeps clothing. Nephi puts out some very stark warnings against trusting man and the arm of the flesh.(2 Nephi 28-29 i think) he is also quite clear in his condemnation of ALL churches of the latter days. D and C also puts the church under condemnation. the point here is i wouldnt really be so quick to 1. dismiss non prophet revelation 2 think all is well in zion.(again Nephi seems to condemn those that think this way) 3. think the GAs are above falling. Judas fell, the early apostles in the Joseph smiths day fell, and im sure others. so you really shouldnt dismiss Denver just because he is not a GA. such logic flies in the face of all scripture im not saying Denver is a good or a bad guy. i am saying The Lord has often called others outside of the line of priestly authority to teach. and why can The Lord do this? because this is His church, His earth, and He can do whatever he darn well pleases and He is the ultimate authority and can give it to whomever He wishes and is no respecter of men.

this really. plus its a cultural thing that is occurring more and more people are not mentally maturing enough for such a concept as marriage until their mid 20s and then dont actually get around to marriage until late 20s or 30s even....and women having kids in their 30s. i think gone are the days where everyone gets married at 18 or even many years ago a man and wife paired up by 16 or 15 and days before that princesses and princes got married at 12(we would call them pedophiles today) or whenever the woman could bare a child...so really i think the church needs to come to grips with the fact the world is just marrying later(for or better or worse can be argued but the fact is it is happening). mixed with the fact most 18 year olds have little clue as to what they want to do in the world. there is also the fact and probably in relation to getting married later people are having less kids once again we need to stop pretending marriage at 20 after getting off a mission is what happens and is realistic these days. couple this with the fact the church quite frankly as 0 clue as to what to do with a single 20s person or 30s....really 0 clue. they quite frankly dont have much for you if you arent already committed. and if you are that age and DIDNT serve a mission God help you man. seriously be in your late 20s single and never gone a mission or even in your 30s....the church really is a rotten place for folks like that. i know i know its a dirty little secret people dont like to address. God knows conference never addresses this. heck the entire YSA is largely ignored by conference. i really honestly wish there was an entire conference session devoted to YSA because it really needs it. talks are always a mix of children or married people and all the YSA folks can get out of that is stockpiled knowledge for those days(assuming that happens....you know you could die before then or it just might not happen) or take home messages like follow Christ(which was a nice theme of this conference) which is good dont get me wrong just nothing ever directly hits the YSA segment and if it does it is always dont wait to get married k thx bai that said....i like the annoucement....though i found it odd the way in which it was presented throughout conference and even originally announced at the beginning i dont recall hearing it was a revelation or The Lord said to do this or anything along these lines it just seemed to happen cause it was tried elsewhere and worked....so it doesnt strike me as The Lord put Himself out on the line for this one. that said i like that fact the option is there. i do it find it odd YW must wait till they are 19 and cant just be 18 like YM....i also find it odd men are still under some mandate to serve yet women are not it just seems weird and out of touch i mean sure i get it motherhood is great and all and i dont deny it but it seems odd women arent under the same pressure to preach the gospel when in all reality that is everyones job. but i am glad YW can go earlier and hopefully that will mean the YW wont just being going cause they arent married attitude will die. i also most importantly hope and sincerely truly do hope 18 is not the new 19 in that if a YM is not going on a mission at 19 good gosh the amount of pressure he will face and scrutiny is absurd. its bad enough 19 is that magic age that he goes or faces hell...it really doesnt need to be bumped up a year.

well i was curious as to whether that part about Christ telling JS was true or not as i had never heard of it...especially curious as Brigham Young makes mention of this same promise too. and well to be honest until recently i was unsure on where the entire wording came from. ive just been researching the issue some lately and was curious. and then it came up in a conversation....the Christ telling JS part. my main question i am asking is how accurate that really is....many leaders of the church have fallen. the church in the past has fallen into apostasy over the years(book of mormon and im sure in the bible). and a general realization that belief in the church is false and following the prophet is not a phrase to be found(unless you can point me out a reference to it) in the scriptures. all of which say follow Christ and Live in the Gospel....dont misunderstand me the gospel is found within the church but the two are not the same exact thing and i am not saying Monson is the wrong guy or a bad person(i have prayed about it he is the current president) merely questioning the act of whether it is possible he is the right guy or whether we just put him there and whether him or any of the other GA's could say something in error because again back to old Mr. Young a lot of what is taught by him is now denounced. this is the question behind the question. a reevulation of what the gospel, church, Christ, Heavenly Father, and the general authorities are was in order. this is merely one of the questions along the way.

thanks so it doesnt say this anytime earlier than that??

so i was curious where that whole The Lord will not allow a prophet to lead us astray came from? the earliest ive read is brigham young said it(got it from his journal of discourses so i think that is pretty reliable). but considering the church fails to teach and in many cases rejects a lot of what young taught i would find it odd that they kept that even ironic. i have heard but cannot find it that supposedly Christ told Joseph smith this? if this is true can anyone point me to the source of that information? thanks in advance

large chunk of the world if you are implying it is just men....well i hate to break it to you but their are women in powerful positions these days. and women that support the sexuallisation of the female body.

not that a rapist is innocent but immodest is much more likely to stimulate that part of the brain rapist or not. look a girl can dress however she wants. same with a guy. both should dress modestly and in all reality if one has temple garments this is much easier to accomplish. this really a two sided sword. girls need not wear them 1 inch mini skirts. and guys shouldnt go around walking in those sleeveless work out shirts all the time. and both genders should work on the self control to let such sexual exposure arouse them which will help prevent the porn addiction that this can easily lead too you know being bombarded by sexual stimulus constantly. the reason this is largely the females concern is because its the female image that is plastered everywhere as beautiful. on covers of magazines its the the female body. the porn star is usually highlighted as a female. the hooker is usually highlighted as a female. so in short really the female for better or worse has the bear the brunt of the repsonsibility female clothing is more and more revealing overtime. females are taught more and more be concerned with looks. show skin. these are all mostly female images shoved down our throats. its not quite as common for men or quite as problematic. there is no boob surgery for men. problem for both genders yes. but the messages are largely targeted at women.

interesting post. good food for thought. as for the other topic in here. you people over think this. the point of earth is to come here. to come here we get a body and have a veil placed over us. that is really it. we then die and can get resurrected. thats the point. and hopefully to get exhaltation. a kid with that weird no brain disorder still gets a body. granted a horrible malfunctioning body but a body none the less. why? who knows. but that kid got a body and thats all that kid needs to get resurrected. kids dieing before 8 get the celestial kingdom. however they do not get exhalted. they still need to earn that. this means some will still fail to get that despite getting one heck of a free ride to it. however ive often thought they got a free ride. then i realize no they dont. throughout all the eternities earth this time we are here living mortally is the most unique time of all the eternities. never to be replicated again. this kids miss that. so i think they are missing out. bottom line we came to earth for a body and nothing else the put it bluntly no matter how deformed that body is. the spirit doesnt really care. the spirit wants that body. that spirit is happy to be attached to it. the spirit prefers to be attached to a body caring little for how deformed it is knowing it will be perfected later on it just wants a body. all spirits want this. sort of why Satan tries to possess bodies its the best he can do. heck this is why Jesus was born He certainly had no need to be born if you think about it He was God basically. He had the power. but He needed a body too.

no idea who e e cummings is guess ill check the link. and ill try but I dont know why when i start typing on forums all grammar skills die a horrible death for me. maybe if i type in microsoft word first....

while i agree. however a male is in most species of the world regardless is still the leader of the pack. males crave it. we need it. its in our DNA. most males also have a very strong protector trait that is often spread to the entire family or herd. yes im aware women have one too but that largely does not show itsself until the children are harmed or in danger where as the male version makes no distinction of who is harmed or in danger it is simply any one in the family circle. while i agree a relationship should be on equal terms with each other. the guy often needs to be the head of the house in some aspect or another. but being head of the house isnt the same as what i say goes shut up and listen to me attitude. and in LDS culture priesthood very much takes to the being the one in the head of the house but it also doesnt exercise unrighteous dominion so the guy is never that dominant over powering obey me or else kind of person at least if he is honoring that priesthood correctly. in fact most studies of relationships end up saying the girl prefers this kind of man anyway and most healthy relationships have a guy that shows these traits. this tells me equal rights for most women does not mean complete role reversal but rather the choice and chance to do things like voting and going to school and all that stuff that was previously out of reach for them. heck the amount of girls in utah that just want to get married and are just floating through college waiting for "the one" pretty much proves the LDS culture thinks this way thats for sure. regardless the history of earth has been controlled by men. equal rights or not i really dont think we as a species has any desire to change this. and the changes we are seeing while it is good in many areas it is leaving a lot of as Seminary pointed out . i certainly see this a lot especially being someone in there 20s.heck im guilty of it too to some extent. but thankfully my dad and mom shared a healthy relationship and i saw a clear distinction of father and mother roles. so i dont suffer from this syndrome as much as i could. i agree by our very genetic make up and design if the male cannot be the head of the house in the manner i described or something similar as i think seminary is also pointing out. then what is left???? our basic desire and needs are failed to be met. i want to be head of the house. but i want a wife that i will respect her decisions on things. we will work together side by side. however the priesthood should always be at the head of the house and that power resides in the male half of the marriage. and if the priesthood sits at the head of the house God sits at the head of the house and if He sits at the head of the house i assure you the wife will not be abused or mistreated and she will fulfill her role as an equal partner wonderfully. at least thats my view. it worked for my parents.

in the same way i advocate shooting an intruder whom i have made it quite clear you are not welcome on my property. if there is no probable cause and there is no search warrant a cop is not welcome on my property without my invitation(as is anybody that steps foot on my property yes i use judgement i wont just blindly shoot) and i see no foul in my logic of shooting the intruder cop or otherwise. utards i must remeber this lol. my point wasnt bad drivers. my point was cops lieing. bad drivers should and ought to be stopped provided they are actually getting caught doing something bad like swerving recklessly or something if you have no right to step onto my property(my car in this instance) and i tell you politely no and yet you persist are you not an intruder? personally my policy is shoot intruders and those that are a threat to my safety and multiple people with guns and handcuffs are most certainly a threat to my safety especially if ive told them no you cant come in and they persistent anyway and even lie to get into my house or car. and the whole matter of probable cause i really dont think speeding is ever probable cause for searching a car and seizing me. crazy swerving and broken headlights in pitch black nighttime perhaps simple speeding? nope. here let me pose a question. say i stop at a stop sign. a cop however pulls me over moments later claiming i did not stop at the stop sign. cops have a right to lie. cop then makes some excuse im drunk demands to search my car and intimidates me. tell me who is wrong? who is going to be believed? odds are the police will be believed with no proof i ran a stop sign. furthermore he probably just bullied me into searching my car. is this right? i dont think it is. its the same as an intruder invading my person. tell me would shooting this scum bag intruder be morally wrong???? i dont think it would be this is my point. illegal search and seizure by means of lieing and bullying to people that are innocent. heck i take issue with illegal searches even if you are guilty i dont care what you find it better be a legal and just search and the law better not of lied to obtain said search else justice was not and cannot be served if obtained under a lie. there i hope i explained im not advocating pointless blantant cold blooded murder let me ask you does it matter what if i do or not? does my statement mean more if i do? and yes traditionally those with the power make the rules the history of earth attests to this fact. furthermore what will make it to court or not seems to matter little. there are countless cases of cops going crazy with power. there are countless cases of heroism too and for those like that i applaud and salute them. the simple fact is many things that straight out violate our constitution get passed off into courts and accepted. cops lieing to get searches is one of them. i think the problem you have is you dont think people are as corrupt as im portraying them. the fact is people are and when given a taste of power generally fall victim to it. here D and C 121: 39 39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the anature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little bauthority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise cunrighteous dominion. i rest my case. people with a little bit of power seem to almost always according to GOD abuse that power. God agrees why dont you???? cops have a little bit of authority dont ya think???

some of that is also welfare abuse. a child out of wedlock to a minority group especially means more welfare. considering in many cases mommy did this same abuse the child is really just doing what she knows. basically getting preganant = government money. i also laugh at unintended births....i mean are we expecting sex to not lead to procreation??? lol

yet one can smell alcohol normally with ease and pass or fail a breathe test. but to the point nope cops shouldnt lie. its morally wrong to lie. its hypocritcal a cop can lie and get off scot free but lieing to a cop is obstruction of justice. furthermore in a debate if an honest man loses to a liar the honest man is still innocent after the evidence against him is that of a lie. cops then use this i can lie nonsense to make up all kinds of stories to illegally search a car intimidate and all other manners of abuse of power. a cops word in court then becomes so much greater than that of a civilian. cops are basically allowed to get away with murder under this pretext. if i was a sheriff and one of my officers got caught intentially lieing....that scum would get one fair warning and a few days off. strike two = you are canned. this teaches abuse of power will not be tolerated under any circumstance. lieing officers hurt this great nations freedom. point? government officials should ALWAYS have less power than civilians. ALWAYS. currently its reversed as such people tend to fear police which is unfortunently backwards to the design of the constitution. as such a cop lieing should be a far greater offense than a civilian lieing. ask yourself this....should justice really be carried out by a lie???? i agree. unfortunently many are not fully aware of their rights made even worse by corrupt lawyers that trample all over the bill of rights and make a general mockery of the justice system. couple this with unfortunently many dont carry guns with them and you have two intimidating officers with guns and handcuffs going on about they want to search your car??? and whos word is generally in a court greater than yours? while what you say is a good firm polite reply it ultimately means nothing when you are unarmed and against power hungry officers and even when armed the law will likely just blast you for 30 years for shooting a cop even though the cop commited the greater offense of wanting to violate your right to having an illegal search and carrying a gun. many faced with that potential prospect of 30 years in jail will just say search my car if that will get you to go away. cause as i pointed out police have the power sadly. and more often than not abuse it like the power greedy folks they are.

well rest assured both parties of the human race are just as stupid only in different ways. this person gets it. as cruel and unfair as it is this is the way it works. in fact in the animal kingdom the female is normally the one that controls these things. sex occurs when she is in heat and darn well feels like it. some species of animals the female(particullarly in a breed of dog i used to have) will whip any male into shape in a heartbeat less that male never actually gets to have sex. the reason? HE wants sex far more than she ever does or at least that is what the male thinks and that then ultimately means she has control. guys chase girls it rarely occurs opposite of this. i'd say this fairly well sums up the problem. women being reckless. guys who by nature tend to express their sex drive a lot easier and faster are a lot more willing to respond to it when boobs are waved in their face and given the dress of a lot of girls its pretty easy to see how guys become horny as anything. mix in drugs and alcohol and single mothers isnt entirely shocking. in the LDS culture this occurs but in addition to that people in utah and idaho seemingly in droves rush to get married and i question how many of these marriages are good and arent bound to fall apart. many 18 year olds dont know what they want in life much less an eternal partner. and many return missionaries are just trying to get their feet on the ground. while im not advocating waiting till you are 40 but being 20 is also rushing it as many people arent mentally mature yet. factor in the general chaos known as dating and well are we really shocked there is an increase in single parents???? im really not. and sure why not while were at it lets blame tv and video games cause well they are clearly the downfall of western civilization. as much as being a guy i cant fathom a woman that needs 50 pairs of shoes though ive come to accept this fact of life. she too needs to fathom sometimes a round of video games is my version of 50 pairs of shoes. yet only one of these gets blamed. ill give you porn though that is horrible and a serious problem. i think for many its just downright frightening especially in the LDS culture. the guy is suddenly expected to basically take on someone who will forever freeload financially off of him. bring in more freeloaders(kids). and the ever prevailing myth that upon getting married all of my alone time is now dead which does mean no more games and no more fun time with my friends. somehow this myth probably still exists because girls suddenly expect the married to give up everything. but perhaps i think the most telling point is mentioned in one of the priesthood talks. men bear the priesthood. ultimatelly that is a lot of pressure. some get the priesthood through lieing. some get it by growing up in the church and just going with the flow. some want to honor it but are trapped in things like porn of which it is a nightmare and a half to overcome(girls seriously understand this is **** to overcome). men bear the priesthood and i suspect this is the reason some of these LDS marriages get strained. for me personally do i want to get married? yep. but the concept is frightening. im financially not secure what with school and all. the idea of having to now take of someone and any future children(how can you be ready for this????) and the ever looming pressure that if i muck up enough the priesthood is tied to this screw up and ill have a wife and children entirely dependent on this. this is addition to my other flaws i am well aware one of which is my inability to sleep like a normal person which would likely interfere with the whole lie with your wife thing. and now suddenly ill need to be completely 100% financially responsible. oh yes and my social skills suck making dating ever worse. so at least from one male thats my perspective of why im single and why marriage is somewhat frightening. i think the whole point and for some reason i think the male brain grasps this better is marriage is hard freakin work. and since males chase girls ultimately for a guy to be chasing for marriage this means we are telling ourselves we are mentally prepared for this and thats a pretty bold statement to make. yet at the same i could be 40 and not prepared for it ya know? in the end i think both genders share some blame however i can only fully explain my genders way of thinking as i see it and likely be even close to accurate. another priesthood talk i think last year said have patience with men in their 20s and stressed that. thats about the best advice i can give. oh and dont date some random jerk and cry to some nice fellow about it after a year. so i might offer that advice dont date that show off jerk and then come crying you are ya know single with a kid en route which is an all too common scenario. this is a topic that could never end so ill end it here lol

while funny. clearly missing the point of people that work 10pm-8AM shifts that get screwed by either pulling a 40 hour day or flat out missing church all together forgive me for thinking of these people some of which are doctors saving lives. i was unaware of the gospel was only for morning people on sunday mornings.

sorry double post just read whole thread lol but before that it says they will not be redeemed. do not forget the qualifications to get there. having had the truth beyond any doubt and then openly rebelling. and earlier in that it says it would be better not to of even been born which is quite a mind blowing statement i assure you. furthermore The Lords suffering and wrath is infinite and eternal was the atonement as otherwise we would have to eternally pay for it. these people denied this atonement to such a severe extent they cannot partake of it so they must pay for these sins. i think lake of fire and brimstone doesnt begin to do this suffering justice there are just not words in the human language to describe it. think on it Satan the archenemy of God is going there do we really think Satan is going to be making out like a bandit??? really all that needs to be said is it would be better not to of been born about describes the horror that will befall those there. The Guy that created all life just said IT WOULD BE BETTER NOT TO OF BEEN BORN....or in other words since spirits are eternal must of always existed it would be better to of even existed at all in the grand scheme of eternity to not even be an intelligence and whatever came before that to never exist in any state or frame The Lord is not just referencing Human birth here but existence at all in any state. So God just said not existing as matter would be a better fate than outer darkness....that is quite telling indeed. i say this because Satan is going there yet he has never been "born" not in the human birth sense yet God is still telling him it would of been better he never been born yet he cannot be born so clearly God is referencing being a piece of matter and created. as one who has felt the pains of a damned soul i assure they are agonizing to an end that cannot be written with the spoken word. their pain defies all things on this earth. in fact i would rather go through every horrible act that has ever been committed on earth and in every horror movie and in every porno than be consigned to a state of outer darkness. the agonizing pain there defies all logic. Alma the younger was not joking when he said his Soul was wrecked during those three days of agony. i wish he would of gone on a little more length about that pain but whatever. rest assured it is quite terrifying. yes i would rather not of been born if it meant avoiding hell. no all are resurrected and restored. restored as put back together if you are evil that part is put back too if you are good good is put back. outer darkness also means without the prescence of God. in all the other three kingdoms God can dwell in some form. whether it be the Holy Ghost(third kingdom), Christ and Holy Ghost(second Kingdom) or The Father(celestial kingdom,Christ, and Holy Ghost) and as such have a glory. Outer darkness is no glory and has no prescence of God. God is light. to be without light is to be in darkness. so you are cast out or outer darkness.

i forget where it says it(more than one place im sure) but straight and narrow is the way and few therebe that find it and wide is the path to destruction and there are many that find it. the point here is there will always be fewer exhalted beings. why? logic demands it. its harder work. its more difficult. its not easy. as with everything there are fewer A's than there are F's and usually there are the most C's than anything else. i suspect our eternal destinations will fill up accordingly. furthermore concerning this particular earth. God shows Enoch His creations and point blank calls this earth the most wicked of all Gods creations. so concerning this earth we will have the most that earn a destination of hell. God Himself basically says this. Furthermore at any given time the amount of faithful followers is few in comparison to that of the world and even then we arent all that faithful a lot of times. even now we have 12 million members about 4 million are active compared to 7 billion people. no 7 billion people wont just die and be converted. again Straight and narrow is the path and FEW THEREBE that find it. and we are the most wicked of all God's creations. my guess? the third kingdom is the biggest as you literally have to do nothing to get sent there. ok i went and found the scriptures i was referencing 13 ¶Enter ye in at the astrait bgate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to cdestruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because astrait is the bgate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto clife, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:13-14 36 Wherefore, I can stretch forth mine hands and hold all the acreations which I have made; and mine eye can pierce them also, and among all the workmanship of mine hands there has not been so great bwickedness as among thy brethren. Moses 7

i sincerely hope the church isnt considering this. the amount of fail present in this idea is mind boggling. while were at it lets just make baptism option good grief. im shocked only one other poster has made mention of this. if this is implemented i suspect there will be a massive shift in leadership as clearly those general authorities have lost touch with anything resembling the scriptures which clearly teach to not settle for mediocrity and that eternal life should be the goal in addition to the fact every current general authority would be a clear cut example of hypocrite the likes not even a devout LDS member could even try and deny and still remain honest. geez the amount of fail involved is horrible...to quote the all mighty internet OH NOEZ DA HORRORZ I HAZ 2 DO HARD WORK!!!! on topic....ive never had the block meetings. but something clearly should be done. by the third hour you are lucky to get half the original attendance. home teaching is a failure on nearly all levels and ive never been to a ward that wasnt begging people to home teach/visit teach. the meetings can get downright insane i too remeber a dad as a stake president that spent all day sunday from the crack of dawn to 9 at night or later in meetings. then to turn around and work 6 days a week. and the sunday school block is often cluttered with like 6 different class options. we currently have...gospel doctrine, mission prep, temple prep, family research, gospel principle and probably one or two more i cant remeber. its impossible to round up people in every class and get them all there on time and ya know find where the room should be taught and is the teacher there today. its chaotic and crazy. then you have to get people to stop socializing and goto class. to put it bluntly in my experience church meetings are chaotic and all over the map with by the end of the three hour block maybe and that is on good days half the original attendance is there and this also has to factor in not everyone attended church that day. factor in an ADHD TV riddled society and a three hour attention span is a tough one. call us youth crybabies but this is a fact that must be dealt with(older adults are certainly guilty too). the age of IPhones is certainly making this even worse as in every class someone or several people more than likely are playing on their stupid phones. yes i know some are using them to read scriptures and that is fine but a lot of people arent. devoting just three hours to The Lord isnt enough thats for sure...but we can barely manage to devote three hours to Him so adding more certainly isnt the answer. since well in addition to failing epically at home teaching(im guilty....in fairness my home teaching partner has fallen off the map and my people im supposed to teach never get back in touch with me) but people probably dont scriputure study like they should(guilty its a constant daily struggle for some odd reason), daily prayer(ok im not guilty yay lol), living the gospel(i think im not too guilty here but i can see how this is hard), a whole host of other things. really i think the issue should be we have these guys/girls for at least ONE HOUR....how can we get them to stay for 2 more and in addition to that how can we get these people to live the gospel(you know do the stuff the scriptures says to do when they leave on sunday) and stay active???? this could invoke missionary work from active members so this wont just be for half active or less people. it should certainly carry the theme of repentence which applies to us all. and for the already active this should at least satisfy our ADHD by doing something different for a while. oh and let met stress singles wards and family wards are different beasts and should be tailored to different audiences. a 20 year old likely doesnt want to hear a lesson on children just yet just in case anyone thought i might not being taking this into account. general conference this weekend they went on about the effectiveness of the church...great....where is the effectiveness of our sunday meetings? its clearly lost on me but perhaps im letting personal experience get in the way of the hard facts so perhaps someone can explain it? and one other thing. night people vs morning people. some of us cant get up at 8 AM some of us can. i think its important we can attend church at a time that is best for us. whether this is rampant insomnia, night classes, night shifts, morning classes, morning shifts and just a personality difference. if you stick a night person in the 8 AM ward...good luck with that youve likely lost him/her for a year. like wise a morning person probably wont like a 2 -5 ward too much and you might lose him/her. considering every other facet of society has a night person version and a morning person version i dont see why we cant have night church and morning church. good topic addresses an issue i think has long since needed to be addressed. hopefully the GA's will start cranking out the changes neccessary.

true...however the church is supposed to be Gods church. God clearly spelled out in our supreme law of the land the issue concerning the right to keep and bear arms therefore the church appears to be contradicting this right which God established. ill chalk it up to a case of so many not fully understand the constitution. poor thing is barely taught in school anymore. the tricky thing here is the second amendment sort of stands alone. it has to be handled slightly different. you see if we allow places to just put up gun free zones everywhere the question is where does it end? the whole country under this logic can be a gun free zone and therefore nullify the second amendment. furthermore why can the church or any other private property infringe on my rights? but i cant infringe on theirs? you see in this case the right of private property is overuling the second amendment. but the second amendment is ultimately a guard for private property along with being a guard to all other rights. so in such cases the second amendment trumps all other rights because it is in fact the very guard to the entire constitution. you see when it all hits the fan and america goes falling its last great defense is a well armed people who are preferably moral and have a good understanding of the country and constitution though i do admit without those kinds of people the last great defense is ultimately futile. so sorry the church is completely wrong in this instance. nor do i have any desire to respect their request. but there are ultimately three final guards to the constitution. the second amendment, the first amendment, and a well educated people on the subject of republics and our founding and constitution. they are all pretty equal but free speech is pointless if the king has all the guns. a revolution is pointless without wise and educated and moral God fearing people that can reestablish a proper order. and these people are useless without the freedom to speak and defend themselves. however like our three branches of government one has the most power congress and the second amendment respectively. there is a clear and solid reason politicians who are normally out to screw us are normally very anti gun. think about it. ill put it this way. we live in more fear of our government more than they do of us the people. until this reverses nothing changes it only gets worse. you know the best way to strike fear into a group of scumbag leaders(aka tyrants aka those opposed to liberty)? guns....freedom of speech and religion...and a well educated people. nerfing any of these three is destructive to all things known as liberty.

the second amendment inspired by God says i have a right to keep and bear arms. not a right to keep and bear arms except for....*insert list of exceptions* nor did our founders ever express a list of exceptions and were very much for an armed people gun limits didnt even start till the 60s or 70s as i recall with the federal gun control act. i suppose being locked in prison is one logical exception but then again that is ya know PRISON. ill grant God one exception the temple. only cause that is the one place He claims He will come and visit or take a more direct role of protecting. So i will trust Him on that area. but the church buildings are as fallable as any other building and afford no extra protection. the church handbook might say otherwise but i sincerely disagree and argue the people that wrote that handbook have not studied our constitution which is a document The Lord takes direct credit for establishing by wise men He raised up for that purpose. so I take the constitution as hand and hand with Holy Scripture it is the 5th standard work it is the only other work we know of with His printed words on it. i mean God flat out takes credit for it. its basically HIS DIRECT WORK. an armed people are a safe people. so yea im going to go with The Lord on this one and the founders of our country....a right to keep and bear arms with no exceptions is the proper answer.

exactly. if a bunch of unworthy people enter the temple that is a way of Satan to enter. furthermore what if a person sells his soul to Satan while in possession of a temple recommend? its not like the people at the door do much more than scan your card. i really dont see why Satan cant enter the temple given the proper circumstances.

not shocking. nothing new here folks. just the downfall of society continueing onwards though as wrong as it may be i did LOL at the win a divorce contest....seriously who came up with that.

so? stuff appearing in a handbook doesnt = divine revelation nor does always mean accurate teachings or scripture interuptations. and way to ignore my other points actually.... note the bolded part...and is baptized. children cannot be baptized. they cannot even repent. therefore sacrament is lost on them. for investigators....they havent been baptized thus not fulfilling one of the two requirements. so again sacrament is lost on them. those two groups of people sacrament is lost on. then again maybe nephi is lieing or we are all just horribly confused its one of the two at this point. however the sacrament is tied to baptism as pointed out by nephi. children cannot participate in baptism or repentance the two things sacrament is tied too. what does this have to do anything. child baptism is mockery. baby blessings are not. furthermore you say A church not the LDS church. A church can do anything it pleases. furthermore this would require massive redefining of what getting baptized even means. actually....once again that silly nephi quote gets in the way of this as well as the entire book of mormon really. clearly stating if you repent and get baptized in The Lords name then you are his and get the sacrament. in fact a very common theme is get baptized and be counted amongst The Lords sheep. getting baptized and becoming a member go hand and hand which according to nephi is when you get the sacrament.

was this some divine revelation from a prophet? if so why is it such a glaring contradiction to scripture? it seems this revelation is suspect at best. furthermore The Lord goes on a pretty long tangent about baptism for people under the age of 8 being an abomonation. ergo kids under 8 cannot take the baptism covenant shall we just toss that scripture out too? seems if He doesnt want children not getting baptised i'd wonder why He would want them partaking of the renewal of covenants of baptism??? seems if children getting baptised was worthy of such a long tangent then i do wonder what His reaction would be to them taking part of the renewal of a covenant He clearly said No too. why would these people then be different from investigators? this handbook and the revelation i question. it sounds suspect and faulty at best. seems God laid out rules. seems the church doesnt want to offend people. but God is no respecter of persons.

why is this neccessary? scripture clearly states the procedure. not my fault we are all ignorant on the matter. heck its not my fault i just learned this a year ago.