kayne

yes exactly. it says do these 4 things and lifted up at the last day will be your reward. it sounds simple enough with a reward i think we all want. so thats my point really i have noticed i am even in a half asleep waking up state i am somehow remebering more stuff to be thankful for granted it might be more if i ever could be one of those folks that can wake up fully alert in 2 minutes lol.

you are right ive seen black LDS families stop going to church though i have seen some tough it out and i applaud those that do especially since the odds are they have false information. to add to that say white or other races join they are fed this same information and the cycle only gets worse from there. and i agree with that last point our leaders are not always right they arent the end all answer to everything they do and can screw up. and scriptures arent always take it at face value you can connect the dots a bit as our leaders often do. i am sure that video is well done. this goes along the lines of one of the biggest things i read on exmormon sites are the church lied to me. i suppose they are half right since history isnt covered very well and most of the members dont research this stuff and when they do they leave. i do admit it takes a strong testimony to stumble onto some of the stuff and not go astray. ive certainly stumbled on a lot that would shake many peoples beliefs to the core including that link you gave me considering it can sound very contradicting and in some ways it kind of half way is. honestly im a bit glad for this topic this subject is much clearer now.

ya the landmine is pretty obvious lol. honestly i think that whole speech should be gone over at least once a year in the church that and the bit about polygamny as well. there is entirely too much misconception on both. but the black speech especially im fairly certain few know it. older people might but have forgotten or are set in their ways of the past. and younger folks like me(that speech is 6 years older than my birth) dont know about it and know little more than the church allows blacks to use the priesthood now but dont understand this now negates all the negative stuff attached to be black in the past. instead of just a simple they can hold the priesthood now but are still seen with the mark of cain which is the attitude i held and was brought up believing. polygamny is another landmine that i think needs to be covered yearly too. hardly anyone knows it and the only reason im wise on the matter is i pieced together stuff from various anti mormon sites. looked up the whole thing on official church sites and speeches. and pieced it all together and i say its important as still too often people think i have 10 wives(heck i just want to catch one lol) considering these are the two biggest misconceptions in the church today i think it would be great if it was covered more and in full detail. honestly i think this goes back to the LDS past isnt really covered too well and trips up a lot of people i have seen on countless exmormon sites its very typical they stumble onto something from the past and arent sure what to do with it and is often the cause of quitting the church. or even less than active members in person ive seen this oh i heard this and this and missionaries just dont have the accurate history to dispute it and put the lies in their place which a proper study of church history will do. and digging into the church history is in general taboo to the general ward and population.

ah someone who can give an intelligent answer even if it sounded it like you called me rascists earlier i suppose just a misunderstanding. but here we go an intelligent answer that answers the question at hand in full detail. i thank you perhaps this makes sense cause you havent made a whole point of insulting me at every possible chance. granted this doesnt negate EVERYTHING as false and it certainly doesnt mean the church never agreed with me as it did. i was just unaware of the full context of its change of views like i am sure many are not fully aware of and why even the most basic of stories like cain and abel tends to strike our black members the wrong way unfortunently. though i suppose this highlights why there is such ignorance on the matter as if someone like me dares to ask a question or because of the inabillity to ask a straight question i must get my answers elsewhere and they might not always be 100% correct. shame on the rest of you. you did nothing but aid in my ignorance on the matter. shame on you all. imagine if this question occured in your wards and you people responded like this. seriously skippy here is the only one that tried to set the record straight. i tried but i didnt know everything apparently. i applaud skippy for trying to set the record straight and doing so with a full backlog of accurate knowledge including the whole speech that everyone seemed to be referencing but never giving a full detail of. see now i know skin color which once was thought as a mark of being bad in the pre life or related to cain isnt anymore and it doesnt matter about that anymore. i was never rasciists i just thought that meant these people did something wrong previously as was the pre 1978 thought. it might of been bad before but The Lord doesnt see it that way anymore. see it makes much more sense now. so sorry skippy i thought you were calling me a rascists. i see you were the only level headed on here

thank you for not insulting my opinion and seeing my point that it can go both ways. if anyone has read the book mothers of prophets you will get a clear indication that modern prophets were born to very special mothers as The Lord needed them and wasnt going to just send to some hopeless starving third world country. yes i know you said you didnt really agree but thank you for being respectful and seeing my point none the less.

the jews wanted Christ dead. how is this even debatable? so what its now The King of the Jes is killed by his own people but wait only a handful wanted him dead? really? sorry please back up your claim that only a small portion of people alive at the time wanted him dead. i said more than once i have no idea how long that punishment lasted but to suggest there wouldnt be some punishment for killing Christ is absolutely crazy. here D & C 45:48-53 Christ will appear to the jews on the second coming complete with death marks. see above not even sure what to say that really. you keep saying only a small portion wanted Christ dead. yet He was killed by overwhelming pressure from the jews. and the scriptures are filled with opposition to him. heck the world today at large opposes him. were you get this crazy idea I am not sure but i do want to know. there clearly indicates from your earlier post....forget what I said....aka I was wrong I am changing my mind. but maybe i dont know the meaning of "Forget everything I have said" theres a lot of irony here followed by your next post especially here so he was marked and shut out from the Lord? Really that sounds like a clear reward /sarcasm. tell me how this was a reward exactly? then lets not forget the lamanites got marked too in 1st or 2nd nephi...reward or punishment? and what is that bit about warning not to mix with them? reward or punishment here? sounds like punishment but maybe im wrong. yes as is the case for us all...yet he didnt so the mark wasnt the dark skin? if so where did it come from and why? if dark skin wasnt meant to mark the person why did it occur? i cant think of a bigger mark aside from deforming part of his body so today when a black person has a child....that child doesnt carry that DNA and therefore is somehow magically white? yes it happens but its extremely rare as they are usually black. white parents make white kids. black parents make black kids but i guess your right maybe cain for some reason didnt follow basic biology. clearly enoch didnt follow in his fathers footsteps. kudos to him and if he was one of the slackers in the pre life he clearly turned it around this time. cain killed his brother. got cursed. the lamanites rebelled endlessly and got cursed. do we need more proof? really how is this not proof that dark skin has always been a curse anytime The Lord handed it out. glad you agree with me to a point. however it would be foolish to think that we couldnt of dvided ourselves up then as we do now. there were valiant folks then. less valiant as well and everywhere in the middle and that covers all the kingdoms and outer darkness. our destination of where we go indicates our character our worthiness. as such i dont see how we cant conclude there are celestial people, telestial people and so on and so forth considering those are the 4 places we end up there are ultimately 4 groups of people(perhaps sub divided based on the 4 main categories) every soul born your right was valiant however some were less valiant than others. heres your own quote. the church agreed with what i was saying and changed their mind. not might fault i wasn't aware of this considering the church rarely changes its mind on things. considering the mormon doctrine books are still well regarded by most members and since i have read some of them silly mean to think He would later say "Forget everything I said" so tell me who was punished for his killing then? the romans that said he was innocent and didnt want to do it? or the jews who killed the king of the jews? i get it Christ needed to be crucified it makes sense however just because of that doesnt mean the murder of God wont go unpunished it would seem to defy the logic of justice and the whole thou shalt not murder thing. so our pre life had no bearing on our earthly life? didnt you just said it did? so here you are saying the scriptures dont say our pre life effects but then in this quote you say it does? well which is it? call me out on being contradicting yet here you are contradicting yourself. sp cain couldnt of been friends with lucifer? how do you know? he could of. in fact lucifer probably had quite a number of friends that didnt join him. perhaps cain was really buddy buddy and more likely to side with lucifer. this said i did clearly state i was guessing here and making possible conclusions since it would make sense most sons of perdition probably werent the most valiant of souls to begin with. sure lucifer might of been high up there but at his heart he clearly wasnt as valiant of a soul as he claimed to be. as i said there is no proof for the matter here just speculation which you apparently dont seem to like any form of speculation about anything at all. whoa what? the 12 tribes were meaningless? so the whole promise to isaac and abaraham about the 12 tribes was meaningless? perhaps go read the book of genesis again. if they were so meaningless they wouldnt be such a critical point of church doctrine and every patriarchal blessing but yes being grafted into the 12 tribes would grant us those blessings and curses if we are rebellious. so the entire bible which is largely about the jews clearly they are unimportant people and on more than one occassion God calls them his people and he will be their God. your right the jews utterly pointless and not blessed ever. oh yes and Jesus what is one of his nicknames King of the Jews? and my quote scripture above Jesus saying He was killed by his friends? seriously here the jews have played a key role in a large chunk of the scriptures to deny their importance just boggles my mind also on a side note insulting me by calling me bigotry or rascists or any other name calling that has been handed out by people in this thread shows a real lack of maturity when i havent once insulted anyone. just because some scriptures appear rascists doesnt make them untrue. get over yourselves people insults make your lose all credibility if the next reply does include insults my way i will simply not reply if you cant disprove me or have an arguement without throwing insults around then we just wont have this conversation. calling a point crazy or perhaps stupid is one thing. but here a few insults which means a : using or given to coarse languageb : vulgar and evil <scurrilous imposters who used a religious exterior to rob poor people — Edwin Benson> so i am vulgar and evil? wow i should thank you i had to google this. perhaps i am dumb but what does ADF take note mean? i suspect another cheap insult calling me foolish? i might forgive this as i said calling an arguement stupid or foolish is ok but it appears to be directed at me and considering i was called vulgar and evil... really this entire post...you are lumping me with sons of perdition....just wow. and here you finnally only insult my arguement as idoitic which is more forgiveable but considering your post history so far...i am very inclined to think this is yet ANOTHER insult at me there is probably more that you did but i am only half way through your first post. i dont think i need to bother going on to find more insults. my point is made if i was a judge and you insulted the opposition i would toss you out and demand you make an arguement without resorting to name calling. this isnt 1st grade then there is skippy as i said i didnt know the church changed its mind yet i am still called rascists and apparently my thoughts are well in line with pre 1978 LDS thinking. silly me never mind the fact that pre thinking isnt rascists but just an acknowledgement of facts and why people are the way they are no where in that statement says i hate black people. so again another childish insult. also if someone can quote me where i said I HATE BLACK PEOPLE which would be rascists please do so....until then please leave your unsupported claims about me at the door. as i said if you cant argue back next time without insults. dont bother replying. i enjoy online forums and i enjoy online forum debates but when they turn into flame war insults....theres no point in continueing.

the whole 12 tribes of israel thing eh has nothing to do with the jews being a chosen people at some point eh? if they werent so blessed well every blessing wouldnt attach us to one of the 12 tribes now would it? seriously the jews were and probably still are the most blessed people around. however not accepting Christ in the last 2000 years has probably been the reason they arent so blessed these days. but considering an end day prophecy is the jews will accept Christ and He will come unto them and ask why His people killed him...i think just proves yes more than a few dozen jews wanted him dead. and also the amount of blessings He wants to give them are staggering. not even sure what your argueing with me about here... and those dead people is who i was talking about. as i said i have no idea how long that punishment lasted. maybe read my entire quote instead **** chinese and spaghett-o's bringing down western civilization as we know it so only a few dozen wanted Christ dead? really? im fairly certain more than a few dozen wanted him dead somehow logic makes me think that. nor did i say every jew suffered this punishment certainly faithful ones wouldnt. but i guess next time ill say "and the jews that hated Christ of which i am sure more than a few dozen existed else rome wouldnt of have political pressure to do the crucifixation see above. i was unaware the church changed its views my apologies. but my thinking was apparently right i just didnt know the prophets completely did a 180. they dont normally do that. and in this case i wonder why it doesnt make much sense when a lot of stuff previously and even in the scriptures points to merit based on the pre life. never midn the fact marked with black skin is in more than one place done as a curse for being evil so the churches change on position seems to conflict with the scriptures. considering this...im not sure the church knows its stuff on the matter anymore so ill go with the scriptures that use dark skin as punishment to prove those folks probably screwed up to deserve it. your right maybe there isnt. but cain was marked. his descendents were marked. and i forgot we got flooded and killed. but at some point the mark returned and much like when cain got it it wasnt cause these were a good people. besides even if they did screw up they are here now with equal chance to accept the gospel isnt that good enough? though that said logic does tell us there were celestial,telestial,terrestial and sons of perdition in the pre life. so not entirely unreasonable to think your born with that same personality. and considering abaraham saw many of the great and noble spirits im fairly certainly The Lord wouldnt send a future prophet to a place on the earth with no chance of getting to his intended destination which means He wont send you to the poorest place in the world with no way out and left to be an illiterate goon until you reach age 40 and magically your a prophet now. no read the book mothers of prophets you will quite clearly see The Lord gives us reward based on our pre life. and of course see a comment later in this post and my previous post which you never really argued that point. again the faithful jews likely werent punished. but that said a parents sins can pass to the child quite easily. a parent stuck in poverty likely creates a child in the same manner. a drunk for a dad will likely create a drunk for a child. its basic modern psychology. now these kids dont have to follow these footsteps but they are predisposed to it and more likely to do so. and again those marked with dark skin their kids obviously have it. so parents can in ways screw their children but the children are still responsible for themselves at the end of the day. your parents raise you they influence you to suggest otherwise is simply crazy and if they are murderers well that too will influence you. ok i cant recall where that one is though i swear its in the book of moses somewhere but here book of moses chapter 4 the entire bit about the pre life. if that doesnt prove what we did then affects us now i have no clue what will. Satan becomes Satan. Jesus solidifies himself as the savior. really what more proof do we need? a whole 1/3 of the host of heaven screwed themselves because of their prelife actions. this is far better proof than the bit about cain anyway. never mind all the other examples i pointed out prove my point. if you cant accept it im not sure why. Cain was probably a telestial(third world cant remeber which is which ever) person at best before he was born in fact theres no reason to think cain and him werent buddy buddy in the pre life. theres a lot of speculation yes its not too far fetched that to think cain wasnt already on good terms with Satan before he was cast out. while that part is speculation what isnt is our pre life affects our current life.

well the jews did kill Christ so.....to expect they went unpunished boggles my mind a bit. as to whether it is still on going or how long it lasted that i dont think we know for certain. there is in moses somewhere it says cain was perditioned before he was born. this clearly indicates he was a whackjob killer before he was born. this is also where son of perdition gets coined. also i think its abraham where he sees many of the great and noble spirits in the pre life preparing to be kings and prophets. the temple endowment session....peter,james,john lets not forget michael or adam or even Jesus or even Mary. a number of patriachal(spelling?) blessings mention a persons premortal life. mine has a whole paragraph on it. so there plenty of references to our status now and our status then.

i feel like i am in a similar boat as TC though minus the RM status and not at BYU but UVU. that said I think i probably share TC's pain but maybe worse. I sincerely suck at socializing. I can do the Hi my name is kayne followed by someone saying hi my name is allie or whatever. and possibly a where are you from tossed in there. beyond that i suck at making up stuff to talk about. toss me into a crowd where everyone is far more social ill get lost. if that personality test thread is at all accurate and i do fit that description nicely i apparently have a personality that royally sucks with people(i scored INTP the apparent worst of the worst in that area(yes i read all 16 types lol) lol add two parents that anti social folks and my genes are just screwed). add the object of flirting in there and we just make that even worse. now 1 on 1 with perhaps something in the background i can manage a bit more though for a while i might come off as question man. unfortunently this doesnt come up much. though if i enjoy your company by probably 6th or 7th time i see you i will come out of my shell a bit more just the type of person i am i guess or if i see you a lot in general. this works to make friends if i see the person enough and has gotten me by in life....but dating where all guys are on top of all girls instantly....i do get buried in the process oh yes and the girls travel in packs mentality. so yes i feel TC's pain. and i suppose i might add this to it. what are good conversation starters cause i clearly admit i fail in this area and im guessing TC isnt too hot either. i could say hi im kayne wanna go out on a date....somehow that sounds too forward and i suspect they want somewhat of a conversation first even if it is just 5 minutes even then what to talk about on a first date? or a possible second date? and i admit i signed up for the dating institute class which appears to be about self improvement as well which i am glad. perhaps this is TC's problem as well. i have never had a high sex drive or urge to date in mass. nor do i have a high social drive. perhaps this is part of our problem?

well im glad im one of the few nice folks youve been able to talk to. sorry your experience with mormonism hasnt always been great. your not alone sometimes i do feel that same way but perhaps you are merely like me a bit of an anti social loner. or maybe youve run into one to many molly mormon types or only seen the utah mormon which is vastly different from non utah mormon to be frank i dont enjoy utah mormons much. in fact if i wasnt so 100% sure This was the true church then likely me moving utah would of resulted in being an inactive member as i just havent been able to connect to the wards around here on any meaningful level. though i do want to say this. using your logic that we cant prove God is real which is correct there will be no science lab that proves it. by the same token Satan would also fall into said category. however despite this it wouldnt change their existence to being any less real. so you would still in fact suffer the influence or lack there of of each being whether you choose to believe it is real or not. so yes whether you would choose to believe it not Satan did in fact provide influence and has your entire life as he has done to all of us. thoughts come from 3 places really. yourself(the least contributing of the three), Satan, and God. this gets mixed together and results in your actual thought process and the actual thought that comes out. again as you say it cant be proved so this still happens whether you choose to accept it or not because despite what I may say or someone else may say you yourself need to believe. I can say I have seen Satan which I have but unless you believe it to be real you wont however it doesnt change the fact it is in fact real. though i do understand yes you went to college you learned things. youve seen the world a bit perhaps. I get it. we all need to find ourselves for sure. the church wasnt for me for 7 years. wasnt for my brother for 7 or 8 years. wasnt for my sister for 20 years. it happens we need to be sure of ourselves. i do hope you find whatever it is you are looking for. though if you are anything like me and others ive seen leave the church be forewarned the moral structure you have is about to come unglued at an alarming rate. though i would say perhaps find a different ward? perhaps try mormonism outside of utah if thats where you are. youll be shocked there is usually even in the most molly mormon of settings at least one person that sees through overbearing self rightouess attitude. honestly if your going to leave i hope its cause you overall disbelieve in the entire thing and not just hate the people as that will likely cause more harm than good to yourself as youll beleive something want to be a part of it but wont. i am curious if the members are really your only problem? i might also say reflect back on what made you join in the first place? in all reality that same reason is still as valid now as it was then. either way take time figure it all out. i suppose my mormon buddies are thinking i am nuts for saying take time figure it all out instead of RUN TO THE BISHOP NOW. but no you need to be sure of yourself whatever that might entail. if you can in general accept the word of wisdom, accept the law of chasity, accept the God head, and overall obey the commandments for the most part you can probably slug through it. though you may find that its ok to make exceptions you dont need to blindly follow the church leaders(think for yourself a bit). ya know its ok to buy gas on sunday if your on the road. an R rated movie wont end the world. and skipping church now and then wont be the worst thing ever. you can still explore other worlds and not do a complete shift. as i still find it odd you want to leave yet you seem to mostly believe it all. well whatever find yourself and ponder it all take a month figure out what you want in life draw a roadmap see where all the pieces fit.

in all reality the Jews are the most blessed because of the promises made to abraham and issac. and in fact those promsies are why each patriarchtical(spelling?) blessing attaches us to one of the 12 tribes. jospeh and ephraim if im not mistaken being the branch that takes adopted members that are direct blood relatives. the jews are also free to accept Christ anyday they wish. they choose not too its their choice and their religion. the jews also do deserve some punishment for being the ones getting Christ crucified You and your kids and probably some number of generations later are still gonig to suffer some pain for that one. yes its a roman punishment but it was the Jews that pushed the Romans into doing it. in fact the guy that gave the death order more than once said he could find no fault with Christ but the Jews kept on pushing it. consider this a political move. the jews still being the chosen people are still of course naturally chased by Satan and i suspect the killing of Christ just scattered them to a ridiculous point. why there punishment is lasting for so long who knows though it does say more than once punishment can last to the third and 4th generation if the parents fall into iniquity which i suspect is what happened however if by the 3rd or 4th generation they are still in iniquity its likely not going to just magically change unless someone along the line has a change of heart. blacks being blood relatives of cain is the likely culprit. also despite this even if some were worthy before 1978 the church had already in its short in history in a land of freedom of religion already suffered the wrath of the US military. i suspect they werent willing to take that fight yet but when MLK came along and finnaly broke the race barrier down for good it seemed like a good time to let blacks hold the priesthood. also The Lord forbid certain people from holding the priesthood this law was still in effect until He removed it. why blacks are still black is yes for a few reasons. one is skin pigment. secondly them being black means they were closer to Satan and cain in the pre life they earned this trait in their pre life largely what you do in this life and how your life is here is indicated largely by how you were in the pre life. however do note their perfect frame is to be white and they will become white at some point. this a curse for being rotten scumbags at some point in their history of existence. you can see the effects of this clearly not to offend anyone but black crime is the highest of all the races. africa is an unhealthy rotting place of disease and early death and illiteracy and its primarly blacks. now of course some break this cycle and i am happy for them just as i would be for anyone else. also the people that got cursed with dark skin obviously did have kids....this carried on to them. again not to offend anyone but that largely answers the questions that cant be answered without possibly offending people as the entire subject of blacks and the LDS church strikes many the wrong way. though do remeber this curse will be lifted eventually.

only going to reply to three things right now as i dont feel replying to anything else while i agree to a point about islam and that religion having a spirtual journey to it. the cold hard facts are the people in charge hate our guts and a very very violent people and in all reality this takes away from any spirtuality their religion might have when they essentially want to start world war 3 and see this as a good thing as the only way to usher in the end of days. i have few islamic friends so i know some can be peaceful. but by and large the religion has made a point of being associated with terrorists which does do a sad unjustice to the peaceful islamics in the world. once again i must say you are wrong here. religion wasnt started by man God started it by first telling Adam and Eve about the plan of salvation thus making the LDS church the oldest religion. granted it wasnt always called the LDS church but that is the only one around today that holds and relevance to the old church when it was first established. your right she does exist. this however changes nothing to the fact we are commanded Pray to the Father in the Name of The Son. not pray to The Mother in the name of The Son. if you truely are LDs and truely do hold the priesthood your violating the 1st commandment have no other Gods before me as we are always instructed pray to The Father. why only Him? i dont know. but we are constantly instructed Pray to The Father. if you arent praying to Him then you are violating the 1st commandment of have no other Gods before me even if it his Wife that is still putting someone before The Father. again yes she exists and why she is rarely mentioned I am not sure and none of us know. I am just as curious as you are on the matter. however my sincere advise is Stop this foolish act now holding the priesthood and praying to someone other than The Father? I cant think of too many crimes that are worse than that(with murder,sexual sin and denying the Holy Ghost being the only 3 i can think of). in fact I would dare argue depending what the sexual sin in question is that you not praying exclusively to the Father is a far worse crime considering its the most basic and the 1st commandment for good reason. not trying to anger you just imparting some friendly advice as i most certainly assure you if you arent do this you arent really practicing the LDs religion. now granted we arent perfect and there is some flexiablity on some things but there are some things that have no flexiablity this is one of those. I will tell what happened. Satan popped a very convincing thought into your head and you fell for it. it happens we are human he wins some fights. I know because I have had those very same temptations to instead Pray to The Heavenly Mother. granted on some level I would like to have that relationship with her but I know that is not for right now. If i want that relationship with her I need to focus on gaining eternal life and to do that it requires speaking Heavenly Father. This will make Her more proud than you trying to get around the established system.

somehow i doubt that one that is so rare is so rare as we all here. either that we have many internet trolls lol though i am INTP the only engineer on this site apparently and according to this site Famous INTP People and INTP Careers | How To Grow, Profit & Organize Your Business quite a few famous folks on there. i'd believe it many of the weaknesses mentioned are mine own. especially the lack of people skills. im certainly in my own world half of the time and the number of times ive started something and failed to finish it is mind boggling as well as a lot of other stuff that is listed. i'd say that type fits me well.

entirely possible and I am sure as a Goddess She is quite capable of handling herself in equal proportions to Heavenly Father's abilities. however for whatever reason The Father is the one that seems to get the spotlight and I suppose we wont know till we die why that is. well a bad customer is different though than say me calling your wife *insert swear word* which is exactly how we use the name of Jesus and God in this crazy world. if Her name was revealed you can bet she would be right there on that list of swear word uses. I do think you are right Eve is like all females modeled after the Heavenly Mother I am sure(after all it is where the whole two sexes originate). that said its pure speculation and everywhere it does say Jesus and The Father were the ones doing it not to say The Mother wasn't the inspiration or didn't play a role in our spiritual birth much like our earthly mothers bring us into the world. though there is a hymn song She is mentioned in if it makes you feel better.

ok so in my readings and ponderings i stumbled onto this verse 37 aCounsel with the Lord in all thy doings, and he will direct thee for bgood; yea, when thou liest down at night lie down unto the Lord, that he may watch over you in your sleep; and when thou risest in the cmorning let thy heart be full of thanks unto God; and if ye do these things, ye shall be lifted up at the last day. so well anyway i prayed about confused about parts it especially the lie down unto The Lord part. but whatever i rolled with it and committed to asking for these 3 things each night. well after a couple of nights i still wasnt wrapping my head around but i was still seeking after it. finnally it clicked. you should when you sleep want to Lie with or next to The Lord as you sleep this goes hand and hand with asking him to watch you over as sleep. and typically the person you sleep next to you will be even more thankful for. so i finnally figured it out. and have for the past week or so maybe 10 days been asking for these 3 things each night. i have noticed it seems like He is right there laying in bed next to me. i feel comfortable and not alone as i sleep. i am gradually waking up more thankful. and my sleep when i do get it appears to be restful and peaceful now. im also trying to counsel with The Lord in everything now. small little big medium everything not just big things.(sorry forgot about this part when i typed the above part of my post lol) i suppose i ask has anyone else does this? had similar experiences? my feelings when praying about it were its a rare request and a noble request. and i have to say the results and improvements to myself in a week or so's time are rather great.

you want to get rid of casper the friendly ghost? you evil person you.

your right we will be shocked im sure Where can we find information on the Founding Fathers coming to the St. George Temple to have their temple work done? | Ask Gramps interesting 4 of them are ordained high priests not elders. there is also somewhere something about others appearing too and among them was napoleon and a few others(cant remeber who now) that were kind of shocking to hear. but i think we safely rule out some people like stalin and hitler. lets also not forget upon death....our personalities are the same. so a stubborn old mule will still be a stubborn old mule. hitler will still think what he did was right. and of course all temple work is for celestial kingdom goers anyone else doesnt need it done. i mean to think hitler can make it to the celestial kingdom you might as well toss out all 10 commandments. i mean really.

sound advice everything isnt told and a lot of missing and you bring up good points. what i was always told about our Heavenly Mother was that God The Father intentionally left her out. the reason being was as much as we blasphemy His name, The Son's Name and even The Holy Ghost. The Father had no desire to let his Wife get blasted too so by leaving her our of it She isn't hit with the same level of cursing and swearing the Jesus and God are. granted i dont recall where that comes from other than my parents and who knows where they heard it(they only own like 1000 spiritual church books and are 70 and have listened to a lot of talks from GA's) how true that is i dont know? it makes sense if you ask me. It says quite often he is a jealous and angry God. and it isnt exactly unheard of for a husband to go into RAGE mode when his wife is insulted. I suspect not cussing the name of the Heavenly Mother spares us the rage of and anger of jealous and angry God who isnt above wiping us all out with a giant flood or fire or anything else. but i too have always been curious what Her role in it all was and whether there is more than 1 Heavenly Mother or not(dont forget people like abraham had multiple wives is our Heavenly Father the same?)

this lol i think the threat of jail time or time in jail are the things that youd have to worry about. not traffic tickets. i know from personal experience until the threat of me going to jail(dont ask) was cleared even though i was getting it expunged i still had to wait for it to clear where as no one seemed to care about traffic tickets. if theres no threat of jail time i probably wouldnt worry too much.

well any book is more detailed than a movie and i think the same applies here. i still wonder how it is good in the scriptures but bad in a movie? yes i get the fact its history and it needs to be taught. but i still dont see how its good in one aspect but bad in another especially when a lot of movies cut the camera angles so you dont see the head come off something the scriptures make no bones about spelling out especially if you have an imagination.

there is a point where the line is crossed though. the odds of hitler being in the celestial kingdom i say are quite low if not impossible. he can still make the third kingdom as never having a chance to deny the holy ghost so he can receive some forgiveness. but bapitsm is only a requirement of the top kingdom no other destination requires it. if you are a killer and certainly to the extent he is i do wonder how to get can past the whole murder is unforgiveable thing. i can perhaps see one or two maybe and thats a maybe but millions like hitler did? im just not buying it. dont forget the third kingdom people still do repent just to get into it repent doesnt mean the top kingdom repent just means avoiding outer darkness. there is no self righteousness in my attitude where you think it is im not sure im merely stating what baptism is intended for. sure Im not the judge but doesnt mean i cant say what disqualifies you and what doesnt after all we all know that because it is spelled out how to make it to the top.

not sure why im posting in so many threads tonight but whatever.this here is the most reasonable post i read on here. mother of children Topic creator RED FLAGS ARE GOING OFF. RUN FOR THE FREAKIN HILLS. GRAB SOME GUNS AND RUN. in laws support a child porn addict?....if it was me inlaws would be banned from house with threat of death upon entering. possibly a restraining order if i could find a way to get one. spouse ignores instincts and mocks me despite this? ....my spouse would be seeing a counsoler with me really fast or i'd be seeing a divorce lawyer. and bishop go see him. talk to him. if spouse wont come with you kick his hide out of the house or just leave. seriously kids are in danger. your mothers instinct(probably the holy ghost too) is raising a red flag. if your husband wont side with you. go see a divorce lawyer now as you cant kick his parents out of his life. go now. see one. get out of there. you have two possible child molestors(with a gut feeling telling you so) around your kids LEAVE NOW. seriously why is this a question? if i had kids and had the slightest thought there were child molestors near them....i'd get the holy heck out of there and a grab a gun. the bolded part especially. ALARM IS GOING OFF WAKE UP. seriously if i knew you and i was there i'd be helping you pack bags and you'd be sleeping at my house. seriously get out. as the guy i quoted said child porn is the most vial of all. to recover from child porn i think all doctors have said is impossible. if two inlaws are supporting. your husband is supporting them. his brother is convicted of it....this is an uphill battle i must say is not worth the fight. just leave. run. abandon ship. search his history if you see any child porn pop up on your PC....run now dont even tell him. just leave. secretly install a tracking software too so you can know for sure. before searching a computer for porn....pray about it. pray for protection so you dont end up falling for its vial traps. PRAY i mean think. if your right. and your kids get molested....the horror you will have caused will eat you alive and i really do mean youll want to kill yourself. as someone that is well versed in spiritual promptings i suspect this is one the way you describe it as such a sickening feeling reminds me of me and reminds me of my mother's own promptings. i wish you luck. one more piece of advice. pray, pray, pray, pray. know if what your feeling is The Lord speaking to you or not. ask for a sure knowledge of it. if you are still sure afterwards...and your husband wont budge. once again i repeat LEAVE else your forever flirting with fire.

my guess is this too. the reason as its spelled out in the doctrine of salvation books is because of societys customs and norms throughout all of time men seek the women. a man asks the girl to marry him. a man asks the girl on a date. in large part if a man is single its likely hes not asking girls on dates so its his fault. and so its better a girl avoids marriage rather than getting married just to get marriage if it means marrying an inactive member. however it does go on to clearly state....if said girl gets married to an inactive member and this member never turns his life around. this girl has shot herself in the foot as far as exhaltation(spelling?) goes. because she got married but just didnt do it the right way. so girls get a second chance only if they never find a worthy partner to ask them out but that all goes out the window if they get married to an unworthy partner. whether you agree or not dont care its in the doctrine of salvation books somewhere for what its worth. to TC....honestly from and LDS perspective....to not get a temple marriage is heart breaking. i get it she wasnt entirely active when you first started dating it happens. perhaps misleading on her part. but she wants one now. in fact during her inactively she probably wanted on then too but for various reasons wasnt chasing the goal as much as she is now. if this is what she wants....my advice is sadly end it now. this will just bring her misery. you misery. kids will be confused. now yes you might change your mind.....but i do tend to think as a general rule these part member families are doing themselves a huge disservice. there will be things she will expect that you cant deliver. priesthood blessings, temple marriage, sealing to family, baptize the kids, baby blessings, hold callings and of course going to church with her on sundays. this and a number of other things you wont be able to do. she'll expect it. it will cause grief. ultimately if she is LDS for the rest of her life and married to you she will weep silently at times and openly at times. i think this here applies to all part member families. my sister is a member her husband isnt. she weeps daily for this matter alone. her child does too. its caused ultimately nothing but grief. ive never seen or heard of a part member family situation that the non members didnt cause some heart ache on the members. another sister who is going back to church is now suffering a bit because of her husband doesnt want to go. yes she hasnt gone in 20 years but still its now forming into a member/nonmember family complete with grief over the nonmember. i think i only had one smart sister the last sister she if her husband didnt get baptized was going to call of the wedding luckily he did like 3 weeks before the wedding. now there is grief in that family but it isnt over religion. my brother was smart they got it right. though my last sister got it right too it just took a year after the marriage to seal it. and i dont think i could ever do a nonmember. too much grief. and ive seen a number of other relatives marry non members and other people in these situations ive never seen it exactly result in good harmony. you might find that sad or wrong. but the fact is a true LDS believer wants to be sealed to their family. non members trash this idea so it causes a lot of grief. and of course you being the male as i said wont be able to do a number of things she'll want. the LDS father of a family has extra responsiblities that an LDS wife will expect. the priesthood here is really the biggest one. she'll want it and expect it. if you cant deliver it she'll call church friends instead but the big problem here is say a sick child at 3 AM.... ultimately if you dont think youll ever join my advice is save her the heart ache and leave. yes it will suck for you i admit. and i admit im saying sacrifice your relationship with the one you love and i know that sucks. but i do fear she wont ever be truely happy.

theres an excellent book called spiritual vision its about 130 pages that covers this to an extent. basically the idea is God created a perfect world. but a perfect world of what exactly when there are obvious hyprocracies everywhere? he created a perfect world of free agency. essentially all this is allowed to happened solely due to free will so random and chaotic things like this come into play. The Lord lets things play out but He will step in from time to time but He needs Free will to take priority so He doesnt stop everything directly that would defy Free Will. once you accept that this is a world of perfect free will it can be easier to stomach why some go through such evil and some dont. granted a humans brain cant comprehend it too well. i do recommend that book it gives a better description than i am giving.

sorry this is false. hitler wont be baptised. baptism as is all temple work is for those that can enter the celestial kingdom. and those that we know have no chance of this temple work isnt done for them and shouldnt be done for them. famous well known mass murders like hitler are blacklisted and temple work wont be done for them. concerning ex communicated folks? who knows. i will say this to get kicked out you had to of done something very severe and many extremely severe things like that will prevent you from entering the celestial kingdom. as for whether TC's person in mind is of that variety i have no idea.