LDSVALLEY

I can not imagine what trials you have and are going through. For what it's worth may I offer some comments. The past is just that the past, the only way I know of to get beyond it is to look to the future. You have guilt over what has happened which is human nature, that way we have some control over what occurred, if only I had done this things would have been different. Your son, I am sure loved you and your family, children can usually only see short term not long term. He had his agency to choose his path, you could have been the best LDS family in existence and the same thing could just as easily happened. But if you continue to look at the guilt or the past you can never move forward. You can only control your part in what happens now. It what you decide you want your life to represent from this time forward. If you believe in the teachings of the church then you can still set the example for your son that you would wish. I have no real concept of the kind of pain you are going through and I am thankful for that lack of knowledge. I have an idea of how rocky the road back to the church will be, the questions the pain and the awkward moments you will have to face. Do, of course what others have suggested, study your scriptures, talk to and pray to God, and talk to your son. Keep a journal if that helps for him. Remember he is not lost to you forever, only for a season if you do what the Lord directs you should. Don't try and become active for your son's salvation but for yours because that is the only true way. Don't rush things, let things work in the proper time. I might be wrong but don't avoid the questions about your family. Be proud of your family, be proud of your Son who had the courage to choose a difficult path, not one any of us would wish to see happen to anyone. But he is not guilty of any wrongdoing, he was a victim of life, a person who maybe did not choose the best path but did not choose the worst. Remember he could have taken a gun to his tormentors instead. He did not take his course to punish you, in his mind he may have thought he was saving you from dealing with his problems, (kids minds are not fully developed at his age remember.) And if those two boys have true remorse then he has helped them and those others they would have bullied to have better lives. I am not suggesting it will ever be easy to say you have a husband and x number of children one of which is on the other side of the veil. But when you do he is still part of your family. When you avoid the question you create guilt internally because you feel you are letting him down. You don't have to give detail unless you want to. I would recommend reading the 7 habits for highly effective families by Steven R Covey. He is a church member but the books are not of the church or mention the church. But they help understand about dealing with the things in life in general. While different things work for different people I have found this to be good for many. Rejoice in what you have had and still have, believe there is a way to be united again. Don't wallow in might have been you can not change the past. You can only decide how you and your family deal with the future, ( this includes your departed child) what choices that are in your control, what value the rest of your life will be to those around you. Again you have my deepest sympathy for what has happened in your life. Do not think I am suggesting simply get over it and move on, it is not simple or easy. Nor should you "get over it and move on" because to me it means forgetting about it, it was not important. My favorite Christmas cartoon was Santa Claus is coming to town. One song was put one foot in front of the other. The winter warlock put one shaky foot down then slowly the other as the song went very slow. After each painful step another came a bit faster and steadier. By the time he got to the door he and the song were at a very fast pace. That has stuck with me for 40 years. Just........put........one.......foot.....in.....front.....of....the....other.......and.....soon.....you;ll....be....walking.... across.....the.....floor.....just..put..one..foot..in...front...of...the..other..and soon you'll be walking out the door. For your son's sake, for your families sake and for your sake.

Mormonmusic I had this discussion with someone who was a real "manual thumper" in my view. He wouldn't do anything unless it was in the manual. It was maddening, because there are times when the manual doesn't fit the unique circumstances of the Ward/Branch. Don't misunderstand me. I am not a rule thumper I believe we are given guidelines to work within that allow us to adjust for local situations. My issue is when we do something because we always have or it seems easier then adjusting things so they within those guidelines. Example Home Teaching is supposed to be separate HP and EQ but our ward always blends it. Some is allowed for, if only High Priests live near an EQ home it makes logical sense for HP to teach. However when those separate rolls are given no consideration at all, that I have an issue with. Most of our EQ are split into teams with HP companions for example and some of those could be straight HP or EQ. The church allows for us to deviate where suited but it should not be constant. The one PPI I did the EQ home teacher was frustrated that the widow was going to church friends for help not him. Since church HT policy is that HP be responsible for older widows and her male friends were HP if we followed that policy she would have been going where she should and there would not be an issue. I don't think we should be rigid but when we are not doing what the Lord directs us and it does not work out and we stand there wondering why, then continue to ignore how we are supposed to be doing it. That I have an issue with. BTW I wanted to click thanks under yours but it was not showing and I have no idea how to find it.

I HATE WHEN I DO SOMETHING THEN REALIZE I AM BEING STUPID ABOUT IT. After I posted this I started a letter to the EQ President explaining my concerns, issues etc. I then talked to my wife about it and she told me I should not send it but should pray more and read scripture more about it. I told her correctly that I have been doing a large amount of both on the subject but would wait and do some more. My middle child (11) overheard part of our conversation so I took a moment to explain that some people look at callings as something casual but I look at it as a special link with God and look for the blessings he gives me for doing what I should. Since I have nothing to do I get no blessings. I didn't want her to think that I was needlessly complaining or didn't feel I should hold a calling. She looked at me and said " Then why don't you ask him for something to do." My first thought was I already had done that weeks ago and gotten now where with it. Then I took that moment between stimulus and response to "pause" and think about what they had both said. Boy am I Stupid. Everything I posted was true and very frustrating too me. So I looked at the source of the frustration and was asking for a solution. But I always rely on Logic of a situation to guide me and I realized they had the logic of it more then I did because I was lost in the issue. I picked up the phone and called the President. I told him he was really busy and I was bored to tears with nothing to do in my calling. That surprised him, he asked what I meant, I told him the few things I had been given over the last few weeks. So he asked me to deal with the Secretary paperwork until we could find one. I agreed and said what else. His reply was he didn't want to over work me. So I explained again the calling = blessings part and that I was frustrated and getting more so with not having any real calling. That I preferred long term real roles that allow me to do what he required but in my own manner, but for now needed to do something. That I would do what he wanted but did not want to have to go week to week begging for new stuff. I also took the moment to tell him I still had no idea on what the status of individual EQ members were at, who was struggling with what etc. The long and short are I was asked to do all PPI's for EQ once per month and report the results. There are 7 EQ teams. Now all the other stuff still exists, but I don't have control over that stuff. I will continue to hold true to the direction of the church and voice my concern over things that are not within the direction of the church. I may have to refuse to be involved in what I feel is outside the guidelines we are to follow. But I have control over that as well and have always taken the lumps that come from disagreeing with the majority. So I started a thread I didn't need to start, as usual when I get frustrated over something I needed to look for the logic, alter my way of viewing and thinking and once again feel stupid at not figuring it out from the start. Thank you to those who replied, I always find other points of view helpful and give me a different way to look at something.

Clarify I am new to the calling, although I've been 2nd C before when he was first C. Our current President has had that calling for 2 or 3 years now. And it was not as much that he is wrong as he is doing as he was taught without seeing the other side. It is not so much I take things personally, although I am sure that is some of that of course, but I hate and can't deal with feeling I am trapped in a responsibility without being allowed to carry it out, or it being meaningless and empty which is not the way it is too be.

A few weeks ago I was called to EQ again as a councilor. I firmly believe if we do things the way the Lord lays them out and are industrious at doing what we should then we will get the results we strive for. A brief couple of bits of background, my last calling was a leadership position so there is a transitional adjustment I am making. I have been in this situation that I will describe below before and refuse to tolerate it again for long. I take callings seriously and strive to do what I can to my responsibility to the Lord. I also believe that I must follow the guidelines provided by the church and have a hard time doing things that are against those instructions no matter what the purpose. All of this would be fine except I get more and more frustrated which causes me to start over reacting or ignoring what I feel powerless to effect. Now, here is my issue 1 We are so short on EQ that a HP was serving as councilor while I was Mission Leader, we were switched after the Stake said that had to stop. I jokingly mentioned this as the reason I was called back into EQ and the reply from the EQ President was ...."Well that was not the ONLY reason." Don't get me wrong I still believe the calling was prayed about and God did say I would be good for the calling. But the purpose I was called is hard to ignore. 2 I was told I was desperately needed but in 6 weeks I have rung a warning bell twice, turned time over to a teacher once, and asked to give a PPI which while doing found out it had already been done two weeks earlier. 3 In our one and only Presidency meeting we discussed how we had no one we could call as secretary. ( I believe but am not positive they must be a Melchizedek Priesthood holder. The may also need to be temple worthy.) Anyway our President mentioned one name but instead of prayer there he asked us to pray about it then get back to him at the next meeting. He mentioned today he submitted the name and was told no. Since I never talked to him about what I had gotten what is the point in me doing this. 4 We need a teacher now as well, one person he suggested has a Stake Calling which means he is not supposed to have another calling although it does happen at times. When I pointed this out plus the fact he was a new student at University he said I should pray about it anyway. Then after last class he said he talked to the Ex Sec. and was told yes it is officially against policy but happens so it's no big deal. 5 Other then that prayer request (#3) I walked out of the meeting with no assignments, no responsibilities. We discussed no issues with members, no plans for upcoming months etc. 6 When I first was called to this I emailed the President a couple of times. I told him I needed concrete assignments. That my role was to assist him in achieving his vision for his Presidency. But I needed to know and understand what that was before I could help. I was told it was to improve Home Teaching but have gotten nothing beyond that. I have made a couple of suggestions like an EQ Home Teaching Conference which he liked but instead of it staying at EQ level he took it to the Stake. Now it is on hold because they were going to work on HT in 2010 had have this huge teaching program planned that will involve many levels from the Stake down. 7 The home teaching list was revised yet again but strictly by the EQ President and HPGL. The two are mixed together as one home teaching group. 8 A personal one, I was switched to a youth companion which I can live with but created two issues with whom I still have as families. I pointed it out to my President and the Bishop. Actually I got to the point where I refused to take him to those two homes but would the others. The new list came out today and I still had them. When I even more bluntly said I am not taking him to those homes I was asked if I could take my wife. Which means two trips on two nights at a cost of $10 in gas per trip. ( my families are 40km away from home because the area I live in has too many priesthood for the number of families so I travel into town another area (still in our ward boundary.) Again I said no. My problem is I can not ignore a calling, but I also can not work against the direction of the Lord. My calling is one connection I have with the Lord but when I am operating from a sea of frustration I can not feel him. But I can not avoid getting frustrated because I can not do or have not been given what I should be doing. Nor can I simply do what I think is right without being directed by the EQ President. I also like the President who learned badly form the previous President when he was a new convert. To make it worse that past president is now our Bishop! I have asked in person and via email for the President to provide direction, to allow me to do a calling. I have explained when first called what I need to be of any use and that I get frustrated when I have no responsibility. Each Sunday I am leaving in frustration which is causing a spill over into other areas of the church when trying to deal with the Bishopric, High Priest Group Leadership etc. I am finding it harder to sustain a Leadership that is not following what we are told to do. That is fine when it is between them and the Lord but hard when it effects me. Worse my frustration is effecting my relationship with my family. I am leaving church annoyed and upset not uplifted. This is an old pattern I had 5 years ago, it got to the point I was so frustrated I thought I might have to leave the church to keep my faith in it. Not saying it made sense, if it did then it doesn't now. But I am worried it might be an easy path to follow again without realizing it. I respect the authority of the church, and I don't believe I know all or that I am the only one correct and everyone else is wrong. But I also have the ability to see patterns that others do not see until things become large. And I can clearly see how bad things are going to get in many areas because we are not following the direction we are supposed to in order to get more things done more quickly. I have tried to be a quite voice of concern but twice what I did quietly has been replied to vocally. All I hear is excuses one quite email was replied to in a combined meeting Brother ...... mentioned we as the Bishopric should be attending Sunday School and not hauling people out for interviews. While this is correct it is not going to happen anytime soon because we have too much to do. Now after these two events I feel most of the Ward is looking at me as a complainer. And I am seeing myself that way as well. So my question after all this is. Do I keep trying to get an actual role in my new calling even if I feel I am pestering the President which is making his calling harder not easier. Do I shut up and wait it out, I average only holding a calling for 12 months. My record was my last one at 2.5 years,( before that it was 8 months in a calling.) So it should not be very long. Do I give an ultimatum and to who President, Bishop or Stake that If I don't get anything to do then I want released. I can not support plans that go against church policy, but what do you do when the Leaders create constant exceptions instead of doing it the way we are told to by chruch leadership and the Lord. How do I deal with the frustration that just grows with each Sunday. It's stupid so many don't want or will not do a calling and I can't get the overworked leaders to give me real responsibility. Please don't respond with simply we are commanded to follow our Leaders no matter what. I hope I made this clear enough. I would rather explain it in even more detail for a clearer picture but it is longer then many will read now and remember correctly less. Thank you

theophilus Don't get too hung up on the way the thread is going. 1 it is easy for people to mix up who said what. 2 When people are relying on the written vs spoken word it is far easier to mis communicate the intent of what is being said. Instead of being able to rely on the persons voice, what tone etc everything depends on what is written. Language is easy to mis interpret depending on ones own filters that life creates unique to each of us. This means they take the words in, filter or interpret the intent or manner of what is said based on their unique position, emotion etc at the moment. This also means all the other posts effect how the next one is interpreted. 3 Different regions, religions, communities etc create different interpretation of meanings. When we engage in a global community what is common in our area is weird in another. Or different religion, economy, society etc. Another thread talked about Southern US Grits meaning a food. IN Canada where I am from when you talk about Grits you mean the Liberal Political Party. 4 Most people when they've been bit once tend to go on the attack when the situation appears the same. It is a shame but it is human nature regardless of religion or region. 5 personally having been a member of the LDS for 14 years, joined as an adult, I have heard little about the J of D so I don't really know enough to comment. I have never heard a leader in our Ward's encourage or discourage discussion of it. 6 People often forget to put things into historical context when discussing things. No matter what religion if any we each choose to be we carry the attitudes of our economic-region with us. As Society changes attitudes, comments etc that were perfectly valid and accepted in that time frame become wrong in the new. It is normal to distance ourselves from older attitudes that make us uncomfortable. 7 These changes does not mean the Gospel changes or that the Lord's direction was wrong. Nor does it mean various instruction can not change. For example many get bent out of shape about multiple marriages in the early church. I believe God commanded it, based on the historical-social context of the time I can see the Logic behind it from a spiritual-temporal position. I can also see why the command was resided when it's need was past and when the laws of the land required it. But in no time did the gospel change. 8 You are one of God's children as we all are, as long as you are keeping within the guidelines of this forum of course, God has given you the right to express yourself. Your comments are valid and allow a discussion on a topic that might not have been raise otherwise. Also, while many may have been there done that newer members might never have touched on a subject before. I find even topics discussed before have new points never considered. 9 We are all blessed with an amazing gift to discuss topics with people all over the world! It is a huge blessing but like all things there must come a downside. As I used to tell Investigators when they went to classes other then GP class. That if someone comes across as being offensive, or picking on you, or speaking derogatory to you 99% of the time it is a misunderstanding based on a different knowledge of gospel Principles, our upbringing, and the depth of the discussion. With this forum we have to also add difference in language, knowledge of English vocabulary, regional dialects, religious differences, and cultural differences. 10 Communication with all these variables can be difficult and hurtful if we choose walk those paths. Communication in this manner can also be unifying, liberating and wonderful if we choose those paths. Keep walking the high road the journey is worth it. How do I know? I can see where I started and where I am know, the view is a lot better here.

Sorry I don't care for Grits, I'm more Conservative Party in my older years. I have Voted Grits before then again I also voted NDP a couple of times before Buffalo Bob and his Goat Herders got into power in Ontario and brought down the entire Canadian economy in the eighties. Then again the last election I was so sick of all of them that I counted party signs and voted who and the most signs between home and polling station. :) :) :) :) FYI Grits are slang in Canada for the Liberal party. I've never had Grits but then again many Southerners most likely have not had donairs or beaver tails......eh.

Welcome from Nova Scotia Canada.

I was going to say the same thing. The 1,2,3 method worked great for the first two the third it was a joke. With the youngest, our son, we thought we had major discipline issues, it got to the point when I was renovating, putting up gyprock, patching and painting it became impossible to get him to listen. We are talking about me trying for two hours to get a 6 minute time out done with him hitting constantly. We were at wits end with him, I had gutted most of our main hall and all the kitchen but was working on the hall when this occurred. My wife could not handle him so I rushed finishing so I could take care of the issue while we figured out how to get him assessed by mental health experts. Then all of a sudden he was back to normal! It was clear the change started when I began ripping out the old paneling and finished when I stopped patching the new wall. Turns out he has severe allergies to dust, instead of coughing etc it alters his ability to cope, he becomes very emotional etc. Now when he starts getting out of control we vacuum the house! Don't always assume it is discipline issues especially with sudden change, the temperature issue someone mentioned is the same concept, environment can also play a big part. Here is my 14 years of parenting offering everyone one piece of advise I have learned. No matter what method you decide works best the only approach that will work is consistency. Don't look for the silver bullet, find something that fits and stick with it, over time it becomes a habit.

We mostly skirted the issue without saying yes Santa is real but instead things like how do you think these things showed up etc. We always pushed the spiritual side not the Santa side. For our kids Christmas is about celebrating Christ's birth, the joy of family and appreciating what we have. This is the first year we know all three 14,11,10 no longer believe. Since they knew the true reason to celebrate they were all fine with the discovery. Actually while I am typing this at our kitchen table I can look over the screen and see a storage bin sitting on a chair ten feet away. In it are the kids unwrapped Christmas gifts. We told them not to open the bin because their gifts are inside and not wrapped. They don't want to spoil the spirit by knowing, so are far as we know they have never peaked.

Originally Posted by theophilus View Post I find praying for a burning in the bosom over the B of M to be nonsensical. I find it unprecedented anywhere in Christian history. I don't find it Biblical. I find it rendering man's ability to use his mind pointless. The result of the model can always be questioned. From what I read in your post I feel your missing a step. I looked into many churchs before I joined the LDS. I never actually thought I would ever join a religion because I had not been raised with any and other then seeking something my children could anchor too above the wishy washy of society had no interest. Other faiths told me this or that but none told me to take what we are teaching you and ask God if it was true. The Missionaries did not say when they came the church is true just go onto your knee and ask God and he will confirm it. I was told to study what they left, question what they taught, seek to understand in my mind what I was searching for. In other words to do all the leg work, study, learn, know what I was after only then should I go to God and seek confirmation that what my mind was telling me was logic was his way. Before I joined I would never have believed the stuff I have had happen to me. The first time I was at a Testimony meeting as in investigator I told my wife these people are on serious drugs. Normal looking people were going up to the pulpit and weeping, crying, talking about miracles, promptings, spirits, testimonies etc. I figured these guys were total wack jobs. But I wondered, I had at that point done as the Missionaries had asked and after doing all that stuff they asked I had gotten an answer not once but three times. I use logic in all I do. Things have to make sense, but I don't believe logic must only apply to what I can see and prove. If I had done what they asked and gotten an answer, if these people were not really on drugs but on the Lord then I wanted what they had. My family deserved the best I could give them. The only logic that fit was that it is true, God is real and does answer and give direction when we do what he asks of us. But in his time not ours. After that first three experiences I went three years without feeling anything similar, but when it came again it was overwhelming like those testimonies I had witnessed that first time. In 14 years I have had too many things happen that no one can ever explain short of the logic that God is real and the church is real. But if I went back in time to 15 years ago and told myself I would someday be a Mormon who has laid his hands on peoples heads and pronounce blessings from God, helped bring 25 plus people into the church, had complete faith in Gods existence then I would have thrown myself out the door laughing at my stupidity. Alas one of the great frustrations is you can tell people of your experiences but only the spirit can show people the truth behind them. I have no reason to lie about my experiences but you also have no reason to believe in them for they are my experiences not yours, I can not give them to you and even if you wanted them you can not take them onto you. The only thing that can be said is if you want to fully understand you need to seek the journey yourself with the desire to follow the course with real intent there is simply no other way. So with no insult intended if you really want to understand........Go seek out the Missionaries, read what they ask from the Book of Mormon, take the lessons, ask questions to clarify what is taught, attend service a few times then get down on your knees and pray, with real intent to know the truth of the matter. If you feel the Holy Ghost testify it is true then you must follow through with the intent to join. If you don't feel it then you can take that as you are not ready or the whole thing is a load of crap. The church is true to me because God himself has told me so. And because my logic tells me it is the only logical way it can be. So I overcame my disbelief and did what I promised to do if it was shown to be true. For me and my family it has been the best journey I could ever have taken. May you find what brings you peace, happiness and joy. May you find your God in whatever form that is. May you bring happiness to him by serving him and your fellow beings as best you can. May you find the answers you seek. I have and is it ever worth it.

I don't know why Brigham said what he said. He was a great prophet but I am also afraid he caused a load of problems. You have to remember that prophets are not perfect humans. It is possible for a prophet to be wrong or to make a mistake that effects the church. For what ever reason, God allows that. This is why we are all encouraged to pray concerning everything we are taught so that we get our confirmations from God himself. I for one, think Brigham was the prophet because he was the only one who could handle the challenges of moving thousands of people to the west and establishing the land there. Perhaps it is the same with all of us who serve. We have our strengths and our weaknesses and in the gospel we learn to be patient with each others failings. The Lord gets his work done inspite of us sometimes. This might sound petty but it is an important difference. Prophets receive revelation and direction from God therefore they can not be wrong ever. Prophets are also Presidents. Presidents are human, humans can and do make mistakes. They are two separate roles in one Leadership position. They also carry with them, as do we all, what society, upbringing, trials and education has taught them. When they are working as President they are men who do the best they can. When they are acting as Prophets of the Lord, when they have direction from God then they are God's mouthpiece and not Man. They are not themselves but an Earthly stand in for God.

Theophilus You raise valid points, I am always sad when I see people of any religion degenerate into negative attitude toward others. I believe often it is a result of having come up against Anti-religion people who attack any reply. It become easy to assume the next person to ask similar questions as being the same type. And often it is, but this means well intended people without an axe to grind get a full measure of the frustration caused by the other type. I answer questions or comments based on my belief and my knowledge with no expectation of making a change in the other person. I support and defend others rights to express themselves and have their own beliefs because God has given each of us that right. I must support others, I will say I was pleased to find this site as the others were a vast majority of non believers on religious sites so it seemed impossible to have a non confrontational discussion. One of my best days this summer was sitting with a distant relative and having a three hour talk about religion and God. He believed strongly in God but no organized religion, he had the Bible memorized ( not exaggerating he tossed quote after quote at me and new the exact chapter and verse.) I was far less skilled in that area. We both went into it with the understanding we were not trying to convert the other so emotion was not a factor because neither of us considered ourselves under attack. I figure he did a better job, not because he was more convincing but knew the doctrine better then I. I would have needed more time to support the points I was making. It was very enjoyable. We must also allow that what people are typing can often be seen as insulting not by their intent but by our interpretation of it based on our personal experience. Re-reading my posts I can see areas that could be taken as insulting or an attack depending on how you interpret the sentence structure. I tend to give people the benefit of interpretation when I see things that I could take as offensive. And most of the posters on this site are kind caring well intended people from what I have seen. Enjoy God's gift to choose for yourself.

My biggest question is, why in the Bible does Revelation claim that the Bible is the final word and ANYONE who would add to it or take away from it is committing a major sin? I do not think an omnipotent and omniscient being would suddenly see Joseph Smith wandering around and say, "Oh, yeah, I forgot about him, he can do whatever he wants with it." Another 25 cents The Missionaries answered this via a talk from a general conference, I forget which one but here is the basic answer. We must remember that what we see as the bible today is not what they had 2000 years ago. There was not book called the New Testament for hundreds of years after Christ. When people read ( or the few who could read) they were lucky to have one of the books. And as was said they are not in chronological order when they were combined. If I remember correctly the earliest collection of what we call the New Testament was around 1000AD. 34 versions from that time have been found but it was proven that 33 are direct copies from one copy. You are correct, God would not suddenly see Joseph Smith and tell him to forget what he had commanded about adding new works and translate the Book of Mormon. However: Revelation was not the last book written that is included in the New Testament. This has been proven by scholars outside the LDS faith. If that was to be the last word of God then why would he have Prophets from olden times record scripture over and over then suddenly say Okay that's enough, I'm not going to give you any more guidance. The Book of Mormon does not actually violate that commandment in Revelation. It does not add words to the New Testament it is another work separate but complimentary to the Bible. Religions decided what scripture to put in what we call the Bible, look at how many variations there are. The Catholic church alone has admitted they have others works that they did not include in the Bible for various reasons. ------------------------------------------------------------ The works in the Bible were passed down by word of mouth, written on easily damaged material, copied by hand over and over again. And translated in and out of many languages. Remember the game where you form a big circle one person says a sentence and it goes from person to person until it gets back to the originator and you get to hear how different the return message was? Wonder if it is possible some of that verse got lost or altered? No matter what information you look at religious or otherwise you must always remember to put things in historical context to get a logical point of view and understanding of it's meaning. But of course feel free to BELIEVE what you choose. Peace and may God bless you and yours.

My 2 cents All religions I know of are based on one principle. The principle of Faith. Therefore you will never find the truth in what you ask because they must all have the foundation of faith to sustain them. Which is the reason things are designed the way they are. We don't have the gold plates on display because 1 we would not need to have faith they existed we could see them and 2 people would still find a way to dispute them. We don't have a clear map of the area for the Book of Mormon because 1 the people of that time would not have had the knowledge to create an accurate map which would have had to be put on plates and 2 we would require less faith to believe in it. I could go on but I figure you see my point with that. I was a huge cynic when it came to religion for first 30 some years of my life. I never attended church was never baptized but when I was 13 I contemplated God, not having a spiritual background I applied logic to the question. Logic told me God must exist even without me being able to prove it. As I grew up I figured it was better to believe in him then not, If I died and he didn't exist i would never know, if he did then I would be kicking myself for an eternity for not doing what I should. But I still didn't believe in religion. When my wife and I had our first child we discussed religion, we had seen the lack of respect for parents and authority in the youth around us and wanted our children to have an understanding of a higher purpose. We looked casually into a few different religions but nothing took. When two missionaries knocked on our door I told them they were welcome to teach us but had not prayer of brainwashing me into their cult. And that I had my own belief's and had no intention of changing them. They said they were here to teach, that God would let me know what I should do! At every turn they told me not to believe what they said but ask of God. No religion had taught me that before. I looked at every angle, I could see ways they could be scheming to "prove" what they taught was real. But as when I was 13 I applied logic to the concepts they taught and the logic proved out. Last I did what they asked, I prayed to God if it was true after reading what they asked. Not once but 3 times, each time I had what felt like a warm blanket wrapped around my shoulders. I did not immediately have a belief in all things but could not deny the direction I had never had before about anything so to my surprise ended up a member. My wife praying on her own at the same times had the same experience as well. After 14 years as a member I guarantee this church is true and God exists (no, I don't expect you to take my word for it.) Too many times I have laid my hands on someones head to give a blessing and words come that made no sense to me but perfect sense to the one receiving it. Too many times I have felt God's hand directing me on a course of action. As a member I wanted nothing to do with Missionary work yet one day 3 years ago I was kept awake all night with Missionary ideas coming to me. 5 days later I had the overwhelming urge to pick up the Preach My Gospel book that had been in our house for 2 years and I had refused to ever open or look at ( it was about missionary work after all.) In an hour I had spot read the entire book, that evening the Bishop called me into his office and asked me to take the calling of Ward Mission Leader! I was able to give him a clear 4 year plan divided into yearly segments during the calling interview. Only God can create that set of coincidences, there were a few more items of coincidences involved in it but this is getting too long now. There have been many other times these things have happened to me and my family. I respect your right to your views, God has given each of us agency to decide for ourselves. The answers you seek will never be complete because you miss the key piece of faith in each of those. Logic can support faith but not create faith. Knowledge can provide answers but not wisdom. Each of your questions require a foundation of faith in God to have a full answer based on wisdom not knowledge. We have two options. We can have faith in God, based on logic, and learn of him through wisdom not knowledge or concrete evidence. We can decide to only believe in what man's knowledge and evidence shows us. The first allows me to believe that if something happens to me, my wife, my children, family, friends then we will be together again. That we are only separated for a time not for eternity. The second means when one is gone that is it, there is never a chance to be together again, everything is fixed for ever on what was last said or done. And that what we do in this life is pointless and we have no lasting consequence for what we do or don't do. I have a family I love above all else, guess which belief I prefer! If I am wrong, I;ll never know, I'll have no regrets for what I should have done. If your wrong you will know. Only then will you decide what regrets if any you now have. Sorry I didn't answer your specific questions, without faith or a desire to find faith, you would not be able to really accept them anyway. I support your right to believe that which you wish to and have no intention of changing your mind. I suggest you stop worrying about finding man's truth in God's work and if you honestly want to understand seek an understanding in God's existence first. Individual aspects of various religions is secondary. It's like trying to harvest your crops before you actually plant them! Okay this ended up more like a $1.50 worth, sorry. Peace and may God bless you on your quest.

Don't know if it works but I was once told to take two pots with lids. Drill a hole in both lids that fit a flexible connector pipe that can handle heat. Put your salt water in one pot on a heat source so it turns to steam. Steam travels through pipe into second pot that is not on heat so it turns back to water. Salt stays behind in the first pot. And water is boiled to purify. The smart things to remember about any kind of emergency planning is there is no one best way for everyone and plan for alternative methods. Storing nothing but cans of soup then your only can opener breaks does not help. or storing those cans then finding you have to flee your home on foot also does little good. One compromise I use is this. We can't afford to buy mylar packs of soup as it is not popular in Nova Scotia so everything has to be ordered in and I don't make a huge amount of money. Since we can't be positive of a water source if we have to evac our area the dry stuff is only good so far. What we have is a bag of cans of soup and TWO cheap can openers and resealable plastic bags. In an emergency we grab our 72 hour kits, and that heavy bag if we can. When we get to a point we can safely take ten minutes we will stop, open all the cans to remove 1/2 the weight and pour the soup into the bags. They will take some abuse without leaking, and even cold provide a source of liquid and food. Not the best way but a way we can afford and it gives us something. Don't do what a friend did and boil water then pour it into a plastic jug a few minutes after. She put the lid on it, went to carry it to the fridge and of course the plastic melted but the pressure also built up so it exploded not just leaked out. Very nasty scald burns over her body. AS she said it was a dumb thing to do, she just never stopped to think how long it really took to cool the water down.

http://www.areyouprepared.com/v/vspfiles/EmergencyPreparednessGuidebook.pdf Got this yesterday, have not gone all through it but seems good.

With the water issue, we are lucky to have a well. WE are unlucky that it is hardwired into the electrical system. I have an old gas lawnmower, I plan on picking up an alternator and inverter. Then I can keep my 3 car batteries charged, the generator will be kept outside of course. I then have to change the pump to a plug.

A member of our Ward sent in a bottle of Water his mother had stored 20 years earlier with a teaspoon of bleach per 2 ltr bottle to the government testing site. It came back with the highest rating they give out! We have around 200 ltr of water and bleach stored. After 5 years I dump, rinse and refill just to be on the safe side. But the filter is an excellent idea, I might have the water stored but I can't transport any amount for any real distance. If our home was damaged our water reserve would be gone. The filter is transportable it can go with you.

My grammer and spelling are not up to serious discussion about grammer and spellling! I just best do the can I.

PE is big in Nova Scotia, they have it everyday. The school thing is a big issue. The school boards keep closing schools and busing kids further away. It makes a big difference when kids are not going to school in their community. Here in Berwick the school is mostly local kids which makes the school a part of the society. When local planners have an event going on they often call the school and ask the band to play for example.

In Nova Scotia our EMO during an emergency has the legal right to confiscate anything for the needs of the people during an emergency. They will provide restitution at a later date so as one person said make sure you have a record of what you have. I too also keep quite about who much and what we have, outside of church anyway. History has shown us that when disasters strike there are many who work together to do what is right. There are also many who feel justified or are terrified and take what they need or want from others. I don't own a gun, have never fired one, have never wanted one. I have concern over defending my family (I could care less about property other then what I would need to keep my family alive.) I have not figured out a solution for this. I can't afford the courses and fee's let alone the cost of the gun. In the country it is not as much a concern as when I lived in the city at least I hope! One area we are falling short on, at least up here in the church, is we talk individual preparedness only. Ward preparedness is a joke in 8 years we have an emergency call out list that requires a working phone system, and each year we do a survey that finds 20% of the Ward can sustain themselves for 1 week or more, providing homes are not damaged. Our Ward boundary is 45 min drive East to West and North to South at 60mph (100kmh). My home teaching families are around 40km (25?mile) away from my house. The odd's that I will be able to do anything to help them in a crises are slim. Three years ago I agreed to help with Emergency planning in our ward. When we attempted to create local crises zones so members could gather in local geographical groups and work together, share resources etc to build everyone up the Leadership said they wanted to start smaller........Mind you we have yet to start anything! So I stopped worrying about the Ward and focused our limited resources on our family. And yes I will help where I can in an emergency, and I have, but my first priority must be my family. The best thing we can do is do something each week. Fill a pop bottle with water and a spoonful of bleach. When we had an apartment I used a double stack of milk crates under a sheet of plywood for the box spring of our bed. 45 cans of soup will fit in each crate. It was harder to rotate, we only did it once a month but it worked and lots of crates fit under a bed. It is good to understand what might occur. It is normal to worry about what will happen in a crises. It is better to first do something to be ready for when the time comes.

I have to disagree with this. While, of course parents are part of a complex problem, there are several collective issues. In our region many parents have pulled kids from the school system and are educating them at home. One parent has fought with the school to fail her youngest child because he has a learning issue that is putting him further and further behind. She spends hours each week trying to help him keep up but he is two years behind in learning at this point. The school refuses to fail him as it could damage his self worth. (Not sure what sitting in a class not having a clue what is going on is doing that would be better.) There are many levels of issue. Parents- Many have not been properly educated either so how can they help their kids? Also governments have spent years convincing citizens to give control to them. We get subsidized day care but no subsidy to have a parent stay home to raise kids. Subsidized education but not home schooling. Breakfast clubs instead of training and holding parents accountable to feed kids. Unions- More and more restrictive on what teachers and schools can do. Lets face it they are in place for the short term benefit of their members not the education system. Teachers- As like every career some are there for the proper reasons others to make money. Between unions, school boards, their education, income, parental indifference, "teaching systems to use" etc how do you keep caring and trying when it is easier to do what your told. And safer to your employment as well as advancement. Teaching Systems- In our local school our current grade 9 math teacher considers the current manual so useless she has been searching the school district for 10 year old math books. Everyone is different what works for one student does not for another. So every few years some creates a new system for helping those who struggle. Since it is created for that need group it works very well. The Education system gets excited and soon the system is introduced to every student. Of course it creates new groups that can't learn as well but that is okay a new system for them will fix it. Teaching on an individual method but in a group setting is the only system that has ever worked for everyone. Work- In my parents day they had chores to do before and after school. Often they went to bed early because they were too tired after chores, homework and a little play time to want to stay up. Today when I drive to work at 11pm I see over a dozen teens still out walking around our small country town on a school night. We have wanted to make things easier and easier for our kids to the point they are not learning the need to work. Consequences- Most kids who don't get good grades get bumped up anyway. Teachers are powerless, parents will scream if you do fail their child,and the school boards insist on this. People have been taught that they are owed a good life, if your not getting it then it is someone else's fault and often you can go to court and force someone to give you what you deserve. As I said it is complex, I agree with Vort that individual responsibility has been taken from us and put on the government, I don't think it was us insisting as much as them taking but the fact remains. We were made to feel guilty because we did not put our children into day care, we were told several times we were denying them the advantage of other kids. Yet now those same people make comments on how they wish they had a close relation ship with their kids that we have. Of course then they mention how it is too bad our kids don't have tv's in their rooms, cell phones, Wii's, xbox, i-pod, computers (we do have two family ones in the living room they can use when we are around), multi-station cable (just basic cause we can't get any stations without it) If we expect the "system" to fix what is wrong then we continue to do what Vort was commenting on. We fix things by doing right with our families and show them the difference. They keep their kids on track who have kids who have kids etc. That is how we got to this point and how we get out of it. Anything else is just another system. Note: The motherboard in this computer is faulty and will jump lines and put words or letter in different parts and I don't always notice so most errors in this are really the computer and not the operator!

I don't even know what a particple is, dangling or otherwise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't know, I'm a smart person but God gave my ability to spell and follow grammar to someone else. At least he gave me spell check!