chriscb

Traveler, Ezekiel's 2 sticks?

"Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more. By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins--behold, he will confess them and forsake them." Doctrine and Covenants 58

So I take it you haven't used the line: "What? You don't remember we dated in the pre-existence??" :-)

So the roles are reversed? Because when Jesus was physically on this earth, He was the First Comforter and the Second was the Holy Spirit. John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever".

The underlined portion I quoted above, was that a typo or did you intend to use the word "or"? According to scripture, the Comforter (paraclete) is the Holy Spirit. Who is this "Second Comforter" you speak of? The way you phrased your sentence, it comes across as if you are saying Jesus Christ is the "Second Comforter". Please explain.ETA: Actually, I just answered my own question. Jesus is the first comforter (paraclete) and the Holy Spirit is the second. John 14:16 Jesus says "another paraclete" will come to help his disciples, implying Jesus is the first paraclete.

I consider myself a humble man and one who is not "all-knowing" and therefore, if you feel impressed to share with me your knowledge about this quote and it's implications I would happily receive this new found knowledge. But, I suspect it has something to do with the great plan of happiness and our own eternal progression.

I'll go back and read the article. But, in your opinion and according to your beliefs, would it be appropriate to call the Holy Ghost "God" (as is recorded in Acts)?

I agree with you. The Bible does not teach the LDS concept. If a person wants to know about the preexistence, I'd point them to latter-day revelation rather than the Bible.

KristofferUmfrey, moving from the Lectures to the Bible, regarding this subject, I was wondering what you thought of the following passages. "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you." John 14:26 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession. And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet. But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” Don't these two passages seem to say that the Holy Ghost is not a female (since John calls the HG "He" and that He [the HG] is God?

Well, you make a very good point, one that I cannot argue against. I don't necessarily agree, but I can certainly see how you can view it that way. But why do you think they called the Holy Ghost the "mind" that is shared between the Father and the Son?

I really don't know the Torah well enough to pinpoint where this is found. Perhaps you could show me the OT verses which speak of this. But that's besides the point. We were previously discussing this topic in the context of the Lectures on Faith. If you get some of your beliefs from the Lectures, why not be consistent and believe the entire volume? If the Lectures say that the Godhead is comprised of only two personages, then wouldn't this seem to exclude a heavenly mother (at least from the Godhead)?Thoughts?

You can find the phrase Abba, Father in Romans 8:15 and Galatians 4:6. Basically, it would be like calling your Father, "Dad" or "Daddy" (like a small child).

How about Abba Father?

That is an interesting viewpoint. However, what is blasphemy? Would it be "blasphemy" for me to see Jesus perform a miraculous act by the power of the Holy Spirit and then attribute that powerful act to Satan? I'd say so. And I think the context of Luke 12:10 bears this out.

This is one of the things that puzzles me. "The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters." Genesis 1:2I don't know that I would be so quick to exclude the Holy Spirit from the Creation of this planet (or for that matter any of God's Creations).

Is this a trick question?"No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you." John 15:15

The word "doctrine" means teaching not theory. The tri-unity of God aka the Trinity is a doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox as well as Protestant churches. Nowhere have I ever seen them call it a "theory". Your use of the word (theory) comes across to me as a pejorative. If you don't mean it that way, then please explain why you call it a "theory".

Perhaps it would be helpful if you explained exactly how one recieves the appropriate authority from God. In other words, what actions must take place? I know what happened to me, but since you brought it up, I'll let you explain in your own words.

Just a slight correction. Technically, it wouldn't be a "re-baptism" since the infant wasn't baptized by immersion (only sprinkled with water or having water poured on it's head). Coming from a SBC background, we never considered "infant baptism" to truly be "baptism" (since no immersion took place).

He didn't say "AN eternal GOD" he said worshiping Jesus Christ as THE Eternal God. I think there is a big difference there. Also, I'm surprised by your answer. It seems to be a personal choice (depending upon whom LDS are speaking to). But many members of the LDS church will vehemently proclaim that we worship only God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ and that we do not worship Jesus as a distinct God. Mostly, I hear this when the conversation revolves around our being labeled as polytheists.

Yes, I saw that. However, how do you interpret [Lec 5:2a - 5:2c]? "[Lec 5:2a] There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing, and supreme power over all things - by whom all things were created and made that are created and made, whether visible or invisible; [Lec 5:2b] whether in heaven, on earth, or in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space. [Lec 5:2c] They are the Father and the Son: The Father being a personage of spirit, glory, and power, possessing all perfection and fullness. So, from the above quote, does that mean the early LDS church did not believe the Holy Ghost was a "personage"?

Yes, I read the D&C passages. I was just pointing out that the Book of Mormon says no such thing about a spirit prison or another chance.

I like how Mike Warnke explained the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. He compared it to homemade apple pie. Mmmmmm. Now, he wasn't talking about that frozen store bought stuff. He was talking about the kind Grandmother would make. You cut three equal pieces but you don't take it out of the pie pan. On the outside, we see 3 divisions but on the inside (under the crust) it's all one apple filling. So, I suppose the same can be said of God. On the outside we see 3 divisions (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) but on the inside is one divine essence.

When it comes to the Godhead, do you believe in Monotheism, Modelism, Binitarianism, Tritheism, Trinitarianism, Henotheism, or Polytheism?The "Lectures on Faith." These seven "lectures on theology" were approved for inclusion in the Doctrine and Covenants by a Conference vote of the LDS Church on August 17, 1835. They appeared in all English editions of the D&C until their unexplained removal in 1921 without a General Conference vote. Lecture Five explicitly teaches that there are two persons in the Godhead: There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things — by whom all things were created and made . . . They are the Father and the Son: The Father being a personage of spirit, glory and power: possessing all perfection and fullness: The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle, made and fashioned like unto man. A question and answer section in Lecture Five confirms its binitarian view of the God: Q. How many personages are there in the Godhead? A. Two: the Father and the Son. According to the Lectures on Faith, the Holy Ghost, or Holy Spirit (the two terms were not distinguished at this stage), is not a person, but is the shared "mind" of the Father and Son. Lectures on Faith Section 5

Here's a link for anyone interested in reading the entire Lectures on Faith. Lectures on Faith Contents