Giant_Son

I see from your posts at TOL that you're looking for a religion. May I suggest visiting with Mormon missionaries as part of your search? Go to Mormon.org - Home and request a visit from the missionaries. Go here: Have missionaries contact me They have some awesome things to share with you. Good Luck with your search. And please don't ever give up.

I see that you're also on TOL. Is that correct? I'm Martin.Harris.

Online LDS Scriptures: Scriptures Free Book of Mormon and other Church videos: Free Media Good Luck, Andy! Please don't ever give up.

Congratulations, Hope. Keep up the good fight!

Hi Ravin, are you a member of the Church? Regardless, welcome to the site!

AnthonyB, however you dress when you come to the chapel, you should be well-received. There will definitely be a Book of Mormon available if you go during the service hours. However, they don't sell Quads at Church or have extras sitting around. You can go to lds.org and order one if you wish, though. Here's the link where you can buy a triple (BOM, DC, POGP) or Quad (Bible, BOM, DC, POGP). Online Catalog - By Book I really admire your searching. Please keep it up and don't get discouraged!

Go to Mormon.org - Home and request a free Book of Mormon. Take a look around the website, too. Some of your questions may be answered there. See here (more direct link): Free Media

There are a lot of miracles in early Church history - do some research about the dedication of the Kirtland Temple. Read here: Kirtland Temple - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The Saints making it out of the Midwest alive is a miracle as is the colonization of the Salt Lake Valley. Temples currently dot the Earth and 19-21 year old missionaries are baptizing thousands of new converts every year. All miracles. But more personally, every time I feel that I have been forgiven of my sins, is a great miracle. Praying about the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon and receiving a spiritual witness is another awesome miracle that is only experienced individually.

Have you been visiting with the missionaries? They are essential for your progression as an investigator right now. The Gospel is meant to be learned and lived "line upon line and precept upon precept." It's difficult to understand the roof (deeper doctrines) if you don't understand the walls (basic beliefs) that hold it up. Jesus himself spoke of only giving milk to some of the Jews, because they were not prepared to receive the meat. Please don't look beyond the mark or let old traditions become a stumbling block for you. If you are sincerely looking for the truth and can trust God, then He will lead you to a full understanding. You first should read the Book of Mormon and pray to know if it is true. Once you receive that answer, which usually comes as communicated peace to your heart, then everything else will fall into place and your questions will be answered sufficiently, I promise.

Webster, you're right that they're different - thanks for explaining. Your conclusion is right, though. My statement was that Satan's plan was to null the effects of justice (most likely by taking away the law, not the payment of sin). I guess that I would go with #4, then. But, of course, I could be very wrong. I'm not basing my conclusion on any scripture. Justice could very well be right - his explanation sounds very reasonable to me, too.

Not holding anyone accountable and making nothing evil sounds like the same thing to me.

I vote for #2. He would not take away our agency by forcing us to choose correctly, but to take away the laws. If there are no commandments, there is no sin, and we return clean. We are born, live as a natural man (but not contrary to any law - thus no sin), and then we die. There is no development or redemption. My vision of Lucifer's plan is Anarchy and not Stepford. That was my impression anyway ... Thoughts?

The atonement is eternal and everlasting in its effect or impact. Christ suffered in the Garden and on the cross and "FINISHED his preparations unto the children of men." So, I think we are agreeing on this point.

I would also check out DyC 88:36-38 36 All kingdoms have a law given; 37 And there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom. 38 And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions.

Hi everybody, my name is Giant_Son and I am a 28 y.o. YSA. I have been LDS all of my life, but most of my family, excluding my Dad, is not active at all and they can be quite contrary, if you know what I mean. I am a returned missionary. I have a strong testimony of the Gospel of Christ, The Book of Mormon, and the Restored Church. I joined this site because I like to read the dialog between the faithful LDS and those that have sincere questions. My role in this forum will be that of a reader and not much of a poster. Thanks, everybody! I love reading these boards.