trulykiwi
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Posts posted by trulykiwi
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Great posts guys and it is really obvious to me who actually reads and listens and come to their own opinion on truth and reason, and I can see those who really have no clue. Interesting to say the least.
Ron Paul to me is a well informed man on the American constitution and what it means to be equal and free. If only those of you that knew you would have voted him President years ago and we wouldn't have had this financial mess we have now. He rallied against this over 10 years ago and said exactly what would happen. Do you know what? To the jot and tittle it has happened. You tell me if he is a nut!
I am enjoying this thread and all of you are awesome!
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The governer of texas needs to quit whining and let this president continue to help the regular american citizens, instead of corporations; This guy is just as all the other right wing nuts, he canott stand the fact that the democrats are in charge; {thank God}, Are we christians, or are we a bunch of greedy rich idiots who refuse to help the downtrodden?
Lets once again begin to live and act in the manner heavenly father has commanded time and time again. lets help one another, and quit this stuff about, "well i earned mine, why should i help those little peons?" Were all in this world together, lets start acting like it once again.
Holy scripture warns us repeatedly; not to be greedy; to help those whom are in need, to share or even give everything we have to assist those in need if nessacery. this country has herd for the last 8 years nothing else except, war,torture, job losses, breakup of familes, loss of homes, and many other terrible tragedies while all along our government has done absolutely nothing but reinforce the big companies bank accounts with billions and billions of unacounted for tax dollars to go and kill hundreds of thousands of inoccent people; and doing not one single thing to help the unisured, the sick, the uneducated, the homeless, the less fortuante; the phlosophy has been one of nothing more than. take,steal,rob, and deny it all. now there is nothing more to take steal and rob, yet they continue to deny? It is waaayyy past time for these greedy nut cases to see reality, start acting as the lord would have us.
I rebuke you!!
What you explained is what the President is doing, not Rep Paul, totally the opposite.
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1st. Anything that one does which imposes costs on others without their consent is against the precept of liberalism. Laissez-faire economic policy does not allow people to injure one another, the "hands off" concept of it is that government does not make economic decisions for the individual without their consent. But it also means that individuals cannot make economic decisions for other individuals without their consent.
The example of a person who is somehow compelled to take on second hand smoke, the courts would protect them in a liberal society. However, in a private business (like a bar), the bar owner should be allowed to decide whether he will allow smoking therein. Each visitor is then allowed to decide whether they will endure the smoke or not. Government should not be employed to give anyone the power to force the business owner and his smoking customers to provide a smoke-free environment. The liberal government would not make the decision for the bar-owner or any of his smoking clients or any non-smokers.
However, a public property (like a courthouse) because it is not privately owned and is for the purpose of facilitating public activities would need some regulation to accomodate a smoke-free environment for individuals who have business to conduct there but do not wish to take on second hand smoke. This is especially true for those required by law to be present in the courthouse (such as those on trial).
Since the 60's, the distinction between private and public property has been obscured in the United States. Businesses are more and more considered as public property.
A perfect example of just how bad this very issue is in my own town is the fact that the national casinos (Harrahs, Ameristar, Argosy) pushed for the smoking ban here. Meanwhile, they were the only businesses with an exemption to the rule. The ban passed, now there are just a few non-locally owned bars in the casinos wherein drinkers can also smoke at the bar while the local bar owners will suffer fines and the threat of revocation of license for allowing smoking. The casinos are betting this will give them a further edge in the market.
Trace the effects of any government intervention such as this, and you will see that it is designed to benefit certain groups at the expense of others. In this case, the casinos benefit at the expense of the other bars.
Parents are obligated to care for their children. They should not impose undue costs on their children or on others. Thus, they should pay reparations if their neglect results in such costs.
The accusations that the Bush administration's laissez-faire approach caused the credit bubble that burst last year is laughable. Bush only posed as a laissez-faire type while intervention and cronyism went Richter scale. The political impetus to make this argument is the agenda of the left. They hope to convince folks that their normative policies which they have proposed for decades would have saved us this recent misfortune and will do so in the future if implemented.
The reality is that the current administration is doing little different. The bailouts and stimulus packages didn't begin last January, Bush and his homies were experts at that stuff. Alan Greenspan put the prime rate at 1% after the dot-com bust. The current tactics are far from new or different.
The truth about monopolies is that they come from government intervention, not the lack thereof. Name a single monopoly that wasn't government created. A case in point is the casino monopoly on smoking bars in Kansas City.
Take also the argument laid against (insert the name of the big company that laid off your brother or put your grandma's general store out of business here). These arguments have been around for ever.
Suppose big bad Walmart puts out ma's and pa's with "killer" low prices and then hikes them once ma and pa close. What will be the effect? The new higher prices will allow a competitor to open right back up. Think that is wishful thinking? I own a small business and we have competitors open and close every few months (although I admit that nobody has opened recently with the economic fears keeping people from doing so).
Go to any small town in Arkansas (my wife is from Camden). Of course, there is a big Walmart. Look around. All the other thriving businesses are where? Stacked right on top of that Walmart. In fact, the Walmart draws consumers from all over the county helping the many other businesses there.
Walmart in my neighborhood here is surrounded by the following: Target, Best Buy, JC Penney, Kohls, TJ Maxx, Marshalls, Dillard's, Victoria's Secret, Hot Topic, Ambercrombe, American Eagle, Petsmart, K Mart, Lowe's, Home Depot, Barnes & Noble, Border's, a Christian bookstore, Chipotle, Taco Bell, McDonald's, Long John Silvers, Wendy's Winstead's, Subway (two), Planet Sub, Chuck E. Cheese's, dealerships for Ford, Toyota, Lexus, Honda, Nissan, and Saturn, several grocery stores, several gas stations, over 30 more restaurants, video rentals, a hospital, library, and large outdoor a mall with a lot of shops (including mine) and much more.
The Walmart was here FIRST.
Anarchy would allow whoever is the toughest to have his/her way with whoever they would. Liberal government would not. Liberal government upholds the rule of law. However, the purpose of the law is not to make decisions for economic entities (be they individuals or groups) but to prevent entities from imposing costs on others.
Liberal government would protect no one from competition in the free-market. This would be true for both small and large. Consider Sears and their size and market-share when Sam Walton was running a single store. To say that his gaining market-share was impossible would have been flat wrong. This all said, Walmart deserves no more protection than Sears. If in the next decade a smart group puts the pain to Walmart, so be it.
Standard Oil was the Walmart of a century ago against which authors dramatized the great evils of the dreaded giant. The claim was that it was "cutting to kill" on its way to monopoly. It never got full market share and never raised prices. In fact, it radically reduced the cost of oil in the United States. It was simple competition that caused its decline, not Uncle Sam.
Let us suppose though that a "deep-pocket" company actually posts a loss in order to drive out competition. What this means is that this company is actually disbursing its wealth to the consumers! Somehow we are supposed to think that is bad. The reality is that companies don't usually do this because it is a losing strategy. They end up putting themselves out of business. (I don't know why people find it difficult to understand that giving out products at a loss is unsustainable).
I know first hand about that strategy. I had a competitor (with presumably more money than I) try to do it to me. He was selling product at wholesale prices. Long story short: he is out of business and I am doing well.
In fact, many businesses have tried this strategy and I've never seen one succeed. Walmart does NOT do it. If they have a store in the red they either turn it around quick or close it. They know all too well it is a losing endeavor.
What Walmart does is take advantage of economies of scale (they buy and ship in bulk). They also own their own distribution. This is a good thing. We want products and services to be the most efficiently produced and distributed in our economy.
The people who made candles were thrown out of the candle business by Thomas Edison. The wagon makers were thrown out by Henry Ford. The USPS is being thrown out by Fred Smith, Jim Casey, and Bill Gates.
This is a good thing. We can either fight to preserve stone-age tasks, or put people to work at modern jobs. We don't need as many candle makers, we need electrical engineers. We don't need a guy on a horse, we need FedEx pilots.
The basics of economics is that we use scarce resources to the most economical benefit. Labor is among the factors of production. We NEED labor to be freed up for more economical activities. We NEED those GM workers elsewhere.
The trouble is that government too often delays the reallocation of resources which the market calls for. This only prolongs the pains and deepens the costs of misallocated resources.
Suppose, being on an island, I volunteer to collect firewood for us. Others volunteer to build shelter, to make beds, and to purify water. Who is catching food? Someone will have to stop doing whatever they are doing to fish or hunt. In a large economy like ours, the needed allocations of labor are often more difficult to see. Worse, the continued stacking of firewood to the sky is less obvious. Regardless, government needs to allow these reallocations, but intervention actually slows that process.
More later. Hope that answers some of your questions. Read Henry Hazlitt's Economics in One Lesson for a quick, easy, but thorough discussion on the subject.
-a-train
This is just another opinion! It truly is sad what the education system is feeding the students these days.
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A PDF link by FAIRlds which explains what is official doctrine of the Church.
I don't care if it is official doctrine of the church or not, my point is, you have a view on a certain subject right? Would that change if all of a sudden you became the Prophet? How could it, unless you had inner conflicts, or split personalities, or chronic schizophrenia.
The Prophet is not Obama Hussein, or any other politician, say one thing but do the opposite. His views as a Prophet were the same as his personal views. What he said may not have been what your views are or what you deem as scripture, however much it was scripture or not. Besides not everybody agrees the same with anything in the standard works either.
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If you haven't yet reviewed earlier pages, Ezra Taft Benson was discussed in depth. It was posited by those who appreciate governments with broad powers that President Benson was speaking more from his personal views than from a prophetic standpoint.
Look back on the earlier conversation, if you are inclined.
Cheers,
Kawazu
If you were a Prophet of God, would you have one view as the Prophet, and another view personally on the same subject?????? Think about it, c'mon. Nephi and Joseph Smith must have been crack pots too speaking of conspiracies and secret combinations and communism/socialism!
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This left and right thing is just so dumb! I think we are lead to believe there is a left and a right, but to me it is the two wings on the same bird....bbbaaaaahhhhhhh say the sheep!
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And Tami-flu has been selling something chronic too! Who is the one making millions and millions out of this scare, probably the same one who is spreading the scare, or the pig flu!
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Inasmuch as politics is the manner whereby normative economics are implemented, there can be no distinction. This is the same for religion and politics. When establishments of religion are respected by the state, their formulation and upkeep are a function of the state. This is the reason why church and state are best kept apart. If they are not, religious freedom must be impaired. The same is true for any economic entity.
-a-train
I think the only reason they are kept apart is because governments wouldn't work with the Church and how it is established. Our governments are corrupt and so therefor the Prophet or more so the Lord wouldn't allow it to be run together. This is the only reason to me. The Church needs to be protected from the evil designs of the world leaders and not be infiltrated unto destruction.
This is proven when Christ will establish the Millenium, and he will be in charge of a world government. The Church and government will be righteous, however the Church can't get involved in government as such at the moment because it would cause lynch mobs on us again. You would have perfect economics, governance, laws, politics and equality, which couldn't exist if the Church got involved with politics at this time.
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I fail to see how a lifelong study of agriculture relates to the evils of socialism. He was the Secretary of Agriculture, not State.
The Lord was a carpenter....so what!
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Oh no....I think he is quite serious........
:eek:That's what I was afraid of LOL
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The pocket has allready sprung a very bad leak in case you didnt notice in the last 8 years? instead of lambasting and following rush limbaugh, we need to hope and pray that obama is going the right direction; cause if he isnt; were all in very big trouble; lets stand behind this president; he is for you and me; he is for the homeless, the hungry, the unimployed, the uninsured, he is against killing thousands of inocent families for sefish and stupid reasons; he is against big bussiness and there multi million dollar bonuses while the rest of us are losing our jobs, homes, health insurance, dignity,marriages, and yes even lives. this is not socialism; it is called fairness. lets all pray things are getting better. its obvious the other way didnt work.:)
I still can't decide if this is sarcasm or what???
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President Benson was highly educated and I am positive he was more aware of history than any of us!political definitions change overtime and vary from culture to culture and country to country always have - I read Benson's comments as talking about stifling of freedom of action, which would be more totalitarianism than socialism in a UK or European sense. Or was he only talking to American's? since he was talking mostly about Eastern Europe I doubt that.... so what do I use as the term Liberal, Socialist, Left Wing, Right Wing, Conservative, Green etc do I use an American 2009 perspective to interpret it given as Benson died over 10 years ago, or do I use a British one for the period he was speaking or do I use the current British one?
Speculation. Who cares if it was ten years ago, Prophets words last forever. He was the Prophet of the world not just America!
Or perhaps I should ask my German and Italian LDS friends for their interpretation on the matter? As a Brit I have good media to build my opinions on is it biased and sometimes inaccurate sure but I was shocked by standard of reporting in the US know at least 2 false news reports about my country were broadcase whilst I was ther, And I have found it interesting how many American's don't know much about their history even recent history,
-Charley
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Let's not forget that the socialism at the time of Benson bears almost no resemblance to the socialism we see today in Europe, which is so democratic it's a stretch to even call it socialism.
So then whats the problem? It obviously hasn't happened yet!
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Not only is America bankrupt but it happened before Obama. We have been bankrupted for over 50 years living off a bankrupt deficit bubble that is yet to burst. We have had warning signs with minor economic problems but the worse is coming and most of us alive today will live to see it.
The Traveler
Well that is why social security came in. After WW2 the government needed to collateralize it's people.
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You've obviously never heard of a social democracy.
This is a means to an end...and an end it is...to our freedom!
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Let's not forget that the socialism at the time of Benson bears almost no resemblance to the socialism we see today in Europe, which is so democratic it's a stretch to even call it socialism.
In general, every system has its weaknesses. Capitalism, for example, assumes that everybody's self interest is what is the best for all, but greed makes that all fall apart. Early in the 20th century we saw the results of this greed: billionaires at the head of Standard Oil and the like while workers lived in a system that can be aptly called wage slavery. Capitalism offers no solution for this, as its main assumption is that if you work hard you can get ahead. These people who were living in wage slavery were obviously working very hard, but were trapped in their situation because of the standards of the company. Pure lazziez-farie capitalism even goes as far as saying this is normal and nothing should be done about it. Socialism, on the other hand, has the same type of greed weakness, but from the worker's side. If what we find that works best for this country is the best parts of both systems, so be it. Different times require different approaches to new problems.
It seems to me that everybody here knows more about Socialism than the Prophet did. I tend to doubt that. This seems like the text book answer and OK fair enough. What Benson said then applies more today because I believe as THE PROPHET OF GOD he forewarned us of this happening....right? So when you meet him when we are looking at him in the judgement seat, then you can tell him that he had it a bit wrong.....not me!!! LOL
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What is "Official" LDS Doctrine?
Last I knew there was nothing in the Standard Works to indicate that capitalism has divine favor over socialism, nor do the standard works describe communism as the creation of Satan.
You need to read the BOM then!
It is quite reasonable to assign these interpretations as the opinion of a very politically biased man.
You have to remember Christ is at the head of this church, he calls the Prophet and the Prophet speaks on behalf. To remove that fact would make it confusion. Benson didn't have a split personality, he spoke of truths, truths that you and I don't know the half of, and let me tell you that I bet the Prophet of today is more aware of our government than you or I are! Socialism isn't the issue, it is the men behind it and what they want. Does Satan want to look after you? Is he in control of the government? Or is Christ? The answer is quite simple. Benson knew very well what he was talking about.....or he would have been removed from his position in an instant!
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No. I didn't say that the context of the world had changed. I said that the context in which President Benson's statements and comments were given needed to be taken into consideration. Not everything that a prophet ever says is automatically doctrine, especially that which is said prior to his becoming prophet.
However not only Benson, but others have said the same things.......and in general conference, therefor it would be doctrine.....just as Nephi, Daniel, Ezekiel and John spoke of similar things that would happen in our day. I don't think these guys words are any less applicable today, or need to be taken into consideration. So I believe Bensons words still stand!
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The stuff I don't like about socialism isn't "socialism" itself, but it's evil cousin COMMUNISM.
I believe 'socialism' and 'communism' are the very same thing
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I am just happy to know the BOM has been translated and that Joseph was a true Prophet of god. It doesn't matter to me how it was done!
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Socialism to me is satans counterfeit version of the law of consecration. Socialism can also be a PC word for communism. The redistribution of wealth by the richest of the richest can only lead to their control, power and greed on a world wide scale of us the people. They are not righteous enough to stand in control.
The only concern I have is that governments are a puppet in bringing this about. I guess prophecy has to come true somehow though or how else could the beast rise on such a grand scale!
But the church will proceed and be safe that is all we need to know. No wonder the GA's don't talk about it (governments, socialism, conspiracy) it would just cause trouble where trouble could be deterred.
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Lets hope it really was suicide!
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Great point. We have become a greedy, uncaring world. Popular culture, the instant gratification mentality have a great deal to do with this. People seem so very coarse and uncaring.
"And the LOVE of men shall wax cold"
Why Doesn't Anyone Listen To This Guy?
in Current Events
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I would love to know where this Act really came from!!!!