EandLDOW

It will be Ed. Lorraine doesn't get online much and then just to see grandkids photos in our email.

When we were Church Service missionaries at the local cannery the official Church policy is that the cannery is for members of the Church and non-members who are being actively fellowshipped toward baptism may come use the cannery with the members who are fellowshipping them. The reasoning is complicated, but includes Church compliance with anti-unfair competition laws since the Church is tax-exempt and commercial businesses are not. However, like so many other official policies, and even commandments, it is enforced to a wide variety of degrees in different canneries. Hope that helps.

Yes, police and other "authorities" did unlawfully confiscate firearms in New Orleans. there are now several lawsuits, some of which the "authorities" have already lost, seeking return of those weapons the their lawful owners, or remuneration if the weapons have been destroyed or "lost". The important thing is that they did so unlawfully, and are paying for it now. Even more important is that they did so only to people who were still there after the disaster. If there's a mojor disaster and the police or looters come to take your weapons or food or anything else and find you at home, you obviously haven't been paying attention to what goes on around you. You should have left weeks ago. And yes, I'm a retired Fed LEO.

Our grandparents made jerky by hanging meat on wires strung in the attic. Had to use lots of pepper to keep flies and wasps off, but it worked. Temperatures in the attic may get hot enough to effect nutrients in stored food over time, but it will take quite a long time if the food is properly canned or otherwise stored in sealed containers. Your whole-house fan will help to even out the temperature swings and so minimize any potential damage. Winter temps, if below freezing, may also be a problem if stored things have any liquid that will freeze and burst the container. Get a max/min recording thermometer at the local hardware store and put it up there to see just what temps you're getting. They are fairly inexpensive and a useful tool.

Think of what disasters are most likely to happen, then plan what your response will be, stay or evacuate, stay at work/school or go home, etc. Then plan what you will need to keep you comfortable and nourished during that planned activity for about 1 week. I disagree with the "72 hour kit" philosophy, and it's notable that the official Church policy doesn't mention it. If you look at recent disasters, either natural or man-made, 72 hours does not get you either out of the area nor through the disaster nor carry you until help comes. 72 hours gets you pretty much into the middle of the problem, then what? You need at least one week, and a month is much better. The Church recommends a ninety day supply of supermarket type stuff, then build up a full years supply of basics after that. Hope that helps.

We have and use the Trangia alcohol stoves. they are great and light weight. Alcohol stores for a very long time, and you can get it in metal cans at the Ace, Lowes, or other hardware store in the paint section. Propane does not go bad in storage but gasoline does. Car gas goes bad relatively quickly, but Coleman fuel, white gas, lasts much longer. Propane works great, but in very cold weather it may not vaporize properly whereas white gas will work well at any altitude or temperature. Alcohol works pretty well at any temperature or altitude, also, but not as well as white gas. You can get an adapter to convert a Coleman white gas camp stove to propane use, but nothing is available to convert a propane stove to white gas. The chemical pellet stoves work for heating a little water, but don't put out enough heat for long enough to really cook up a meal. Any fueled stove will eventually run out of fuel. For long term use, investigate woodburning stoves. There are a variety of "hobo stove" plans available on the net, one of the best is Nimblewill Nomad's Little Dandy stove, nimblewillnomad.com, and also check out rocketstoves.org for really good info. These stoves are usually made from a #10 can, or just scraps of sheet metal. There are also a variety of larger folding or otherwise packable wood stoves for hunting camps, sheepherders, etc. that can be purchased or built from small steel drums or barrels and some stove pipe and steel plate. Hope that helps.

By all means do the Square Foot garden method. Plant various veggies together in planters or pots at greater density than the seed packet says. You can make planters from old tires turned inside out and put a piece of plywood in the bottom and fill it with soil. Plant cucumbers, green beans, peas, squash, etc in planters and train them up a trellis. The fruit will be better looking and it doesn't take up much space. Use metal "T" posts or wooden posts and concrete remesh or a piece of field fence that has squares at least 6x6" so you can reach through them to pick veggies without having to walk around. If squash or melons get very big, support them with old nylon stockings or some such holder tied to the trellis. Grow what you want to eat. Tomatoes are great, as are various squash and others. There's no such thing as "easy gardening", but some ways are easIER and more priductive in a small space than others. We're not here to have things be easy, but to learn and work. Seems the more we learn the more efficiently we work, and the more enjoyable it is. Just some thoughts from our experience.

Look for really good sales. If you find a great buy on something you like to eat, buy as much as you can. Disregard the expiration dates. As you get more, you'll rotate it through use and replace it with fresher stuff. There are forums that give a weekly "good buys" listing at various stores around the country (US mostly, but also Canada). When you do your regular shopping, pick one or two items on your shopping list and instead of buying one, buy two of each. Gradually you'll build up some significant storage. As the prophets constantly remind us, avoid debt. just some ideas.

I think that if/when a major societal collapse occurs in our country that we will not revert to the prehistoric caveman mode. Rather, we will go back to perhaps the late 19th century or even the 18th century. There will be major upheaval initially, and lawless gangs, Gadianton robbers if you wish, will run rampant for a time. But fairly quickly groups of people will band together for self-defense, and establish a relatively safe community. Their safety will attract others, growing the community in size and prosperity and in defensive capability. These communities will then join together, forming, lets call them counties, and later join into states. Pretty soon, we'll be back where we are today, but hopefully wiser. Location has a lot to do with preparation. Location and your contingency plans determine how and what you prepare. It is possible to prep and do well in disasters in the urban environment. Look at the differences between Florida and New Orleans. The year NO got hit by Katrina, Florida got hit by five hurricanes. Florida gets hit by many more hurricanes than New Orleans, but they do OK and recover quickly because they plan and prepare. New Orleans didn't do either, and still has not recovered. Preparation is necessary to minimize disruption of our lives in a disaster. By the way, if you're one who plans on "bugging out" of an urban area when things really go south, you should know that if you're in the city when things fall apart, you haven't been paying attention. You should have left weeks before, and could have if you had been aware of what goes on around you. Just some of my thoughts.

We own some firearms. Ed is retired US Special Agent and NRA Police and Fed. firearms Instructor. Our children and we know how to use and care for firearms. If someone tries to attack us or take by force our property, we will use whatever force necessary to get them to stop and go away. If our Bishop, or other PL, or a neighbor or someone else asks for help we will give it. I (Ed) sometimes wonder about people who say they will not share their "years supply" with anyone. I think of Isaiah and the widow, and wonder what will happen when/if the Bishop asks people to bring their supplies to the meetinghouse to better provide for everyone.

Hello. We are new to this forum. We are Ed & Lorraine. We live in the White Mountains of Eastern Arizona.