mikbone

Let me put it another way. Can Elohim save me in my sins?

It is a difference of perspective. Please try not to use terms like you are mistaken. The Father allowed me to embark on a trial of mortality. In the pre-mortal existence we all knew, walked and talked with our Heavenly Father. While in the pre-mortal existenced Jehovah volunteered to become our Savior and I accepted him as such. Jesus Christ's Atonement is what allows me to become clean from sin and once again enter into the presence of the Father. The plan of Salvation is the Father's plan no dobut. But Christ is the Savior. For clarity, last week the Gospel Doctrine lesson was on Isaiah, lesson 38 "Besides me there is no Savior" Without the Savior we would all be lost.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2002/04/the-father-and-the-son?lang=eng Is a pretty good discussion on the 4 different ways that Jehovah or Jesus Christ can be perceived as a Father. Notice no commentary as an elder brother....

I understand that we are all spirit children of Heavenly Father as as such we are all spiritual siblings. But this association that makes us think of Jehovah as an elder brother should not supersed the scripture passages such as: The teachings that Jehovah is the Father of Adam - Ether 3:14-15, Moses 2:27, Moses 6:22 The teachings that when we are baptized and become members of Christ's church we are spiritually begotten of him and become his spiritual adoptive sons and daughters: Mosiah 5:7, D&C 93:22 So, should we think of Jesus Christ as more of a brother or a father???

My point is this: in order for us to effectively worship God we should have a correct idea of his character. This following is Joseph Smith's statement: "my first object is, to find out the character of the only wise and true God." General Conference April 7, 1844 I have been studying Christ my whole life. And I have learned much. Unfortunately I have also made many mistakes in my comprehension of whom He is. For example I used to be under the impression that Jesus Christ is our elder brother. And I can see how this association can be made... But nowhere in the holy scriptures can this be found. Yet I can find numerous scriptures that state that Jesus is our father. I no longer think of him as my elder brother, by the way... Also there was a movement to always place the appellations that Christ is the Firstborn (in the spirit) and Only Begotten (in the flesh) when these appellations cannot be found in our scriptures. I think that we (as a group) have performed a disservice to ourselves by trying to define Jehovah and Jesus Christ by making our relationship simpler that it actually is...

I think that I worship both the Father and Jesus Christ. I pray to the Father, and I recognize that Jesus Christ is my Savior. Elohim cannot save me. Besides Christ there is no Savior. But Jesus would not have have been able to be our Savior without our Father's direction. I think that the Temple narrative is the best representation that we have of the interaction of the Father and the Son with mankind. When we agreed to embark on mortality we volunteered to depart from the Father's presence. He never abandoned or left any of us. (Jesus Christ was the only person who has ever felt the abandonment of Heavenly Father [upon the cross] and it literally killed him). Unfortunately, the Father's interaction with mankind has been extremely limited. I can count the appearances of the Father (or his voice) on one hand as found within the entire scriptures. As we read in John 14:6-7, the only way to know the Father is to know Jesus.

I believe that Lord is ambiguous by design. It can mean either The Father, The Son, or Both.

Thank you for your response. And I agree with much of what you said. Concerning whom we worship though, it can be difficult to discern what is policy. See the article recently posted our own very website (happens to be a very well documented article). McConkie was equally adamant against the worship of Jesus Christ yet he wrote one of our most sacred hymns about the sacrament and Christ... https://thirdhour.org/blog/faith/belief/mormons-worship-heavenly-father-christ/

From the Lectures on Faith To be completely honest, my understanding and perception of God has changed throughout my lifetime. When I first learned about God the Father in primary and Sunday School, I actually was thinking about Jehovah as He interacted with the prophets in the Old testament. It took me many years and prolonged study to come to my present identification of GOD. Christianity has similarily transitioned over the years. If we look at the background of Christmas and Easter we must see the obvious connections to pagan celebrations. Similarly, there are parts of Egyptian, Roman, and Greek Gods that have bleed over into Catholicism and Protestantism. I think that the LDS church also has a problem of these traditions and misconceptions within our own religion. When we pray, whom do we pray to? All the artwork that we have in our homes, chapels, and temples are of Jesus Christ. The only artwork that displays God the Father or Elohim is really depictions of the First Vision where Joseph Smith is the focal point of the artwork, and Elohim and Jesus Christ are illustrated as identical personages. How do you differentiate between God the Father & Jesus Christ when you worship and pray? I would submit that most other Christian Churches don't even have a perception of God the Father. I think that Elohim is a personage that only Latter-Day Saints worship. The Jewish worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Who happens to be Jehovah). The Catholics (and correct me if I am wrong - I am making assumptions from the various creeds) believe that God the Father is actually Jehovah and Jesus Christ is God made flesh. When you think of God the Father, of whom are you thinking? Do we have a correct idea of His character? Do we know when Elohim is speaking within the scriptures? Do we worship Christ? Is it OK to worship Christ? Do you easily differentiate between Jehovah (the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) and his Father Elohim?

Man of Steel and Velvet Extreme Ownership

In every single ward I've even been a member there have always been either FBI members or Police Officers who I assume were carrying. One time I remember about 6 priesthood members having their pagers go off at the same time and all getting up and reverently leaving the sacrament service. My daughter is currently finishing her mission at Temple Square. Her favorite security guard is Charlie. All the sisters have a panic button on their phones and response time is pretty darn fast. There are unfortunately a good amount of crazy people and disaffected apostates that protest and hang around temple square. The sister missionaries also have a mascot (Bomb Dog). I trust that the church leaders have the security situation in hand.

Perhaps an eternal perspective can help. We didn't start here on Earth at Birth. Our spirits are very old, we walked and talked with Heavenly Father in the pre-mortal existence. Abraham happened to be one of the amazing seven spirits that were chosen to lead dispensations. In Abraham 3:23 Jehovah explains to Abraham why he was chosen (apparently Abraham had the same question). Abraham like the other six dispensation leaders are extraordinary men. They each were given keys of the priesthood, had direct and prolonged interaction with Jehovah or Jesus Christ during their lifetimes. Adam (Michael) , Enoch (Raphael?), Noah (Gabriel) , Abraham, Moses, Peter, & Joseph Smith - We don't know what these men did in the pre-mortal existence but they were outstanding in valor, obedience, and intelligence.

Amen!

drum roll!!!!

D&C 19:15-17 It is the unrepentant sinner who will suffer.

Moses 6:59 could be intrepreted to state that adam was born with blood.

I want to be s shepherd so bad but sometimes this guy takes over

The scriptures are full of allegorical teachings of a shepherd and his sheep. Jesus is both a Lamb and a Shepherd. I believe that we should follow his example. We should start as Lambs but grow into Sheep. But at some point we must evolve into shepherds. Its always better to be a sheep than a goat. But any Sheep that dosent evolve into a Shepherd is only good for a meal.

I like radical ideas. Hit me.

What is the new nickname? T^2 Tab

Did anyone else just get a chill? #snoflakeinasnowstorm

become.org

It works for me. My daughter is 2 months out from finishing her mission at Temple Square.

And so it begins https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900035214/mormon-tabernacle-choir-has-a-new-name.html?user=app