HEthePrimate

I don't think anybody is suggesting that, and it's beside the point. Maybe Christians insist on singing those songs for the same reason--because they can. Just saying there're (at least) two sides to consider.

Just as there are many different Christian denominations, so there are many different Wiccan traditions. It's not that specific.Yes, most Wiccans believe in a god and goddess. The point is how a person belonging to a minority would feel, whether they believe in a different religion or are atheist.

No duh! But it is a useful comparison, IMHO.

It used to be that there was no such thing as "marrying" a person of another race. Society "redefined" marriage to allow interracial marriage.

I am not personally that sensitive about it. But I can see the point of view of those who are. Just to do the "walk a mile in their moccasins" thing, imagine you are a Christian, but you grew up in a country where 80% of the population belongs to the Wiccan religion. At public events, swearings-in of public officials, and in school, you hear people praying to Hekate, or singing songs praising Cernunnos. It's easy to see why you might feel uncomfortable in that environment, even though they allow you to privately practice your Christian religion at home and at church.

By definition, an addiction is continuing a behavior despite adverse consequences. You could be addicted to virtually anything. You could be addicted to work, for example. Working is not normally harmful--in fact, it's normally quite good to work--but if you are addicted to work, you may spend so much time at work that your family's needs don't get met. You have the adverse consequences of family problems, but you continue working too much all the same, and so it's an addiction. So you don't need a "higher power" in order to recognize the need to overcome an addiction.Now, you and I may believe that a higher power can be helpful for overcoming an addiction, but it's unwarranted to accuse our friend of not being sincere in his desire to overcome his addiction just because he doesn't believe in God.

So, you're in favor of denying marriage rights to a minority group because the majority says so? What if we were talking about interracial marriage? Would you support the "right" of the majority to deny interracial couples the right to marry?Allowing same-sex couples to marry does not "impose" anything on straight couples any more than allowing interracial couples to marry imposes anything on same-race couples.

Oh all right, just because you wanted someone to respond to you! (grumble grumble grumble) Your beautiful woman example is a good one. We humans are built to mate with each other, and don't need an external influence to encourage us that way. God would persuade us to use the power of procreation responsibly, and Satan would tell us to (mis)use it wantonly. But the desire to mate is built-in.

Nobody is trying to "impose" SSM on anybody else. If same-sex marriage is recognized by the state, that simply allows those who want to participate in it to do so. It doesn't force anybody else to enter into or perform same-sex marriages. It doesn't deny heterosexual couples or churches any freedoms whatsoever, it just adds a freedom to a group (LGBT) that didn't have it before.What I mean by the tongue-in-cheek ex cathedra question was that, unlike Roman Catholics, we do not believe our leaders to be infallible.

Horax, I think you may be taking things too literally. One could theoretically argue that since all good things come from God, that we are incapable of doing good things without God prodding us to. If that is true, and we are also incapable of doing evil without Satan's prodding, then what happens to free agency? I thought one of the big points of our mortal probation was to find out what we will do on our own, with our memories of the pre-existence "wiped" from our minds, and a veil placed between us and God so that we'd be truly free to act for ourselves without too much interference from either side. The scriptures do say that we will not be tempted beyond what we are able to stand. So Satan does not make us sin--the choice is ours. You are free to believe that without Satan we could not sin, but I disagree. In my view, Satan may have opened Pandora's box, metaphorically speaking, so that we'd have the freedom to sin, but now that the cat's already out of the bag, we can sin (or not) of our own volition. Sorry about mixing metaphors, but you get my meaning! Anyway, take care. HEP

I did not know that, about the domestic violence. It seems to me that homosexuals should enjoy just as much protection from domestic violence as anybody else. Somebody will probably classify that as a "special right" the LGBTs are claiming, but IMO, it's just the opposite--they are seeking equality, to enjoy the same rights us heteros do.

Were they speaking ex cathedra when they wrote that?

((HUGS)) to you Hala (if you don't mind). I am a widower, and understand both the sense of freedom and the loneliness. As with so many things in life, there are pluses and minuses. What I try to do is let myself make use of and enjoy the freedom as much as I can, and when the loneliness hits, just let myself feel that, too, and do something to commemorate my late wife. Like cook some baked chicken, because my wife loved my herbed chicken! It makes me smile just thinking about her enjoying that! :) And it also makes me teary-eyed.Peace to you, my friend.

Why "must" you defer to Elder McConkie? Don't you have free agency? (Just giving you a hard time! )

Vort, just because ruthiechan said something you don't agree with doesn't mean she doesn't like you. Comparing consensual homosexual sex to rape is an asinine thing to say. How would you like it if someone compared your marital relations with your wife to rape? Some people belief it is right and good to allow same-sex couples to get married. That is part of their belief system. By legally disallowing them from getting married according to their belief system, your belief system takes precedence over theirs, and so they are not equal under the law, and you enjoy preferential legal status.

I can imagine, what with all the clouds!

I can't speak for Adam and Eve, but I know from personal experience that I am quite capable of sinning without Satan goading me on. If I sin, it's my fault--I can't blame it on anybody else.Satan may go around tempting and influencing people to do wrong, but there are plenty of other influences in this world, from other people to our own nature. In a sense you're right--to make a choice we need to have more than one option available. So the more we learn, the more free we become, and the more accountable we become for our actions. Little children don't know a whole lot, and so they are less free and less accountable. That may be the sort of state Adam and Eve were in in the Garden, and Lucifer placed a choice before them. Although, strictly speaking, God put the choice before them first, but Lucifer then pushed Adam and Eve toward one of the choices. But I don't think it follows from that that every time we make a bad choice we were tempted by Satan or one of his minions to do it. I can, and have, made bad choices on my own. (Lest you think I'm some sort of evil person, I've also made good choices! LOL)

I would have thought it obvious that it's my opinion.And so what if it's not the opinion of the majority of people here? That in itself doesn't mean it's wrong.

Baloney. Humans are more than capable of sinning without any encouragement from Satan.

The Church does not actually condemn individuals who have homosexual feelings. It is against sexual relations outside of marriage, and against same-sex marriage, and therefore against any homosexual relations at all. So basically, the Church would have homosexuals either remain celibate, or go against their instincts and get married to someone of the opposite sex. Though I've heard they are pushing the latter option less these days, because it leads to too many divorces.I frankly disagree with the Church pushing Prop. 8 and similar laws. Though I believe the Church leaders are inspired about many things, I do not believe they are infallible, and reserve the right to disagree with them. There is no obligation in the Gospel to follow leaders if they're wrong. If the Church wants to get involved with moral issues in the public sphere, IMO there are more important issues they could/should be tackling, as opposed to SSM. To the Church's credit, they do not seem to be using the temple recommend to pressure Church members to support anti-SSM laws. I know a number of Mormons who disagree with the Church's stance on SSM, but who retain temple recommends. One of them is currently serving as a bishop in my town!

Traveler, I'm sorry if I misunderstood what you meant. It seems that you also misunderstand my point, but unfortunately I don't have the time right now to respond properly to your response. Peace, and have a good evening (or day, or whatever it is wherever you are! ). HEP

Mormons have a tendency to blame themselves for everything. So if you ask, "Are most people fair weather friends," chances are somebody will say that you are not being a good enough friend. It's good that people are willing to take personal responsibility for what they do wrong, but I don't think it's normally healthy to take responsibility for what other people do wrong. The fact is, some people ARE fair weather friends. Of course, some people would otherwise be good friends, but may be facing difficulties in their life, and not be able to be there for you the way you'd like/need. So you don't want to give up on their friendship, because it's not really their fault, and they may be there for you in the future. And it's true that friendship takes work, and you need to be a good friend to them, and be there for them when they need it. It's a two-way street. How's that for a non-answer? Relationships are a complicated matter. On the one hand, you have your needs, and there are times when you really need a friend to lean on. On the other hand, everybody has their own lives and troubles, and we need to be understanding when others disappoint us. And on the third hand (or your foot? ), we need to BE the good friend that other people need. Peace, and good luck.

I'll stick to "often." Sometimes one person really is right, and the other one wrong. But often the responsibility is shared.

Seeing as how she's a Jehovah's Witness, part of it may be that she doesn't agree with the idea that God would bestow favor on a particular nation ("God Bless America"). She also doesn't stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. I don't think that she should push her religious beliefs on others by forbidding others from expressing their feelings and beliefs. However, I do support separation of church and state, and think that as a general rule, promoting God and religion has no place in public schools. I have lots of religious friends, but I also have a number of atheistic and agnostic friends, and they don't appreciate it when people at school start pushing God on their kids. There are plenty of patriotic songs other than "God Bless America" that could be used in the program. I've never heard Justin Bieber's song, so I can't judge whether or not it's age appropriate. He seems like a nice enough kid, but I'm not at all familiar with his music.

SSV, you're probably not alone in having difficulty getting enough people to show up. In my ward, they pass around a signup sheet in priesthood meeting. Sometimes they make assignments, and inform people they are to supposed to clean, and if they can't make it, to arrange a substitute. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't, but when I've gone to clean, they usually had several people show up, and the work took no more than an hour. Maybe you could push the idea that "many hands make light work," because it's really true. Often people bring their families for these cleaning assignments, which can be fun. One time I cleaned the men's room, and after finishing that, got a lighter duty job of cleaning blackboards in the classrooms. The two little daughters of a friend of mine decided to "help" me with the blackboards. It actually took longer than it would have had I been working on my own, but it was pretty fun working with the kids! I always had to clean the top part of the blackboard, because they couldn't reach it! LOL