Kenny

There is another important point, you and I and probably most of the human family don't have skills working with or understanding the qualities gleamed from a furnace. There is clearly more to it than just extra hot heat. In a shopping centre (Mall) in Sheffield, built on an old steel mill are three bronze statues of men working molten metal. It's an education just seeing the expressions captured on their faces and clearly the skill involved in such a practice. A skill the brother of Jared possessed and the route he must have taken to come up with six glass stones. When he had done all that he could do he then turned to the Lord for the final part. But being a loving Father skilled in teaching, all knowing what the solution was, He asked Moriancumer what he would have him do. This is a very important lesson because in all the scriptures you will not see such a clear example of the relationship our Lord has with us.

When you look at this in the terms you quoted, for me at least, it makes more sense than sometimes we give it serious credit. Mankind needs to know what God knows as part of his progression. It will of cause take a lot longer than the few thousand years man has been here and is something those that keep this estate might have the opportunity carry on doing. We are a long way off being able to command the intelligences to grow a new arm but one step to getting there has to be being able to manipulate what already exists in nature but is slightly out of our reach right now. Many new leaps in technology for example have been thought up by more than one person exclusively. When the Lord sends us new things he does so not just to one person. His wisdom is always to make contingencies. Because my existance did not begin here what is to say that I did not agree to accept the limitations to further the work of the Lord. Like the last blind man Jesus healed. When it was asked what sin this man or his parents had commited the Lord replied in short that none had sinned and that he suffered so that the power of God could be demonstrated.

The point I was trying to make is just because one does not get the answer they thought they would get does not mean God does not answer. You did say alot on this but after reading it all it came down to the point in question. Let me sight you an example from Either. The brother of Jared asked two questions: 1: How do we breathe? 2: How do we see? Immediately the Lord gave him an answer to the first but asked the brother of Jared to go and work on the latter. There is no other incident in the history of man at that time that he was required to build a vessel that would go through the water or underneath it like a submarine. So there was no knowledge of how they would breathe for brother of Jared to go and find out so the Lord told what to do. This is how prayer works. Very few people have the faith that the brother of Jared had so it’s fair to say that we might just miss the Lord asking 'what would you have me do?' So if there is silence we can surmise that the Lord has already answered our prayer and it is up to us to find the answer, normally in the scriptures. Another simpler example of this is if you were to ask if you should pay tithing; this answer has already been given and does not need clarification. However if a new leader is called you can ask God for conformation just like you can ask if the Book of Mormon is true.

How wise we would be if we could master that one little thing.

Mankind being carnal can never understand the mind of God if they did they would know that God does answer every prayer just not how those being carnal would expect.

I fix computers for a living and have been doing so for 20 years 11 of those as a business. So you might call me a professional. I know a lot about computers and their problems but there is a greater percentage of my industry I do not know. Knowing where to look is a big help but even with experience it still takes a great deal of effort and study to find answers. There are of cause those who only think they are professionals and wing their way through in the computer world too. Likewise with understanding God and his ways all I can be sure of is that there is more I don't know then there is that I do. Asking armatures to answer divine questions might get you some sort of answer but is it the right one just because it sounds right or wrong? You need to ask an expert. Fortunately we have all that the experts know in type or videos. Ultimately we can ask the master Himself. It does help though if you learn first how to listen.

The plan is we knew it would be tough but we wasn't just thrown down here and said get on with it. You see things two dimensionally, life on Earth is pivotal because what is at stake is eternal progression. No child is lost to God. Jesus taught how to obtain eternal life; he also performed miracles and fed multitudes. In the end all people wanted was a free lunch, this is human nature. Satan wanted to take away our choice and our ability to grow. Yes there would have been no starving children, or evil things happening but not one of us would be any closer to our Father in heaven than when we left his presence. Next time you see someone in need go to their aid and after examine how you feel. Jesus healed many, often in front of hundreds of people but he would ask those that he healed to tell no one but to praise God. He did this because He did not want people believing in Him just because of the miracles. Miracles did not make Jesus the Saviour He performed miracles because he was the Saviour. If you only focus on the negative things in life you miss the joy that life brings through the good things that are done. It easier to blame everybody for not doing what they should it is a lot harder to look at oneself and ask how do I change me. When you pray to God do you ask why He allows all this to happen or do you ask His help to enable you to have the strength to do more. My friend did that, she did not set out to change the world just asked for the strength to do more and ended up changing the worlds of so many. I could go on forever so I'll stop there.

Why are we here on Earth, BMY? If God were to intervene in everything we think he should where would the trial be? Do people have only life here on Earth or is life eternal? If the latter then aren’t those that suffer in this life not lost to Him the created them? My friend I mentioned took up the challenge to feed some those hungry children and has dedicated all her life since to this pursuit not just in Bosnia but also in Africa and other parts of the world. She can never win the war because it is so much bigger than a hand full of people but some battles can be won and those that are bring untold relief too many. Nothing pleases God more than to seeing his children helping each other out and we don’t have to go to the extent of my friend to do so. Because just like the windows mite anything given in sincerity is accepted.

Snow you remind me of somebody who had a problem with members not wanting to explore questions and being sort of closed door to him. Myself I enjoyed our conversations and missed him when he moved to the USA. If I'm offended by what someone says then I have the bigger problem and the greater sin? People are on different levels of understanding but this does not change the fundamental fact that God is God the almighty. He is able to command the intelligences and they obey. That He does not heal everybody despite their faith does not change that He could if it was a part of his plan. It is not Him that has to fall in line with us but us to accept that what we don’t understand and fall in line with His will.

That is the theory but you might be surprised to hear is not always adhered too. I know of someone listening to the Priesthood session and the speaker looked him right in the eye and said words to the effect of 'you are transgressing, speak to your bishop and if not him your stake president and have this burden lifted'" He felt the spirit and acted upon it, did as he was urged to do, hope for a release from it, but lives with the regret that he ever opened his ears to the speaker let alone his mouth to his leaders. We have to remember the church is perfect; it has been that way long before the current membership were baptized or even born. The Lord does not call you or me or anyone to improve the church but to learn to apply its concepts and grow. I've seen so many people thus called and spend most of their time trying to improve things. Bishops who see only status while their flock wonder off down strange paths and stake presidents who despite all the evidence to the contra refuse to admit they might have got it wrong. Part of the reason for asking the original question was to explore the possibility that someone truly repentant can actually be still exiled despite it being against all the principles the Church stands for.

Yes I hear what you are saying but would your friend still be exiled from church if he repented.

You must first understand that I write fiction and like to make up complex scenarios as part of my plot but I also like to be realistic. Hypothetical let’s say our two principle fictional characters are friends and both are married. We will call them A and B. They have become close because of marital problems and almost have an affair with each other. There is inappropriate behaviour mainly from A but B likes the attention and does not put a stop to it. Out of guilt A confesses to the bishop taking all the blame but B sees that as an opportunity to lessen the embarrassment so changes the events slightly making B out to be a victim. What was an unfortunate human failing now becomes something it never was. Bishop feels there is mistruths being told here and passes the problem over to the Stake President. The Stake President asks A not to attend the ward because B claims emotional distress and is not progressing as quickly as A. B, enjoying the attention from the estranged spouse compounds the situation by calling in the police. A is arrested and due processed but it is quickly established no crime against B has been committed and released. A, full of remorse for having instigated the inappropriate behaviour in the first place does the Christian thing and sends a letter of apology to B and the spouse. B reports this to the police and A is then cautioned by the police that anymore contact could see harassment charges brought. I’ve tried to find if a bishop or a stake president has authority to exile someone from their ward and can only find that if a person is repentant we should not deign them access to the gospel. If you do know of of some president it would help.

We blame our Father in heaven for far too much for what goes off on Earth. He entered into agreement with us not to interfere but that does not mean there is no help to get through life. Can I perhaps offer an example how God might help us if we only would listen. A friend of ours became engaged in helping those less fortunate than herself mainly in Bosnia. She organise shipment after shipment of supplies she had raised to be delivered to the right locations, often accompanying the loads. On one incident she was booked on a flight to meet with local leaders about how to best distributive aid to the populace. On the day of the flight and in normal daily prayer she felt not to go on that flight and obeyed the feeling. That aeroplane crashed on it's flight over Bosnia with a total loss of life. There was just one empty seat due to the lateness of the cancelation. Did God only warn one person or did only one person listen and act?

Can someone be exiled from their ward?

Another fellow Brit great to have you here.

Read 'Hearing the Voice of the Lod' by Gerald Lund this book helped me understand and get the answers you are looking for. Summary is that 1: We don't want to listen 2: We are not ready for the answer yet 3: He has already given an answer, normally in the scriptures, and we need to find it.

Hi Bmarks92 Whatever you want to ask you can find some of those answers here, at least that's the theory. Welcome anyway

What I would like to see is a channel that screens all the most popular movies but first edits out all the profanity and sexual content. I like for example Alien and Aliens; I taped them off the BBC when the BBC used to never screen bad language. It was taped on the old Betamax recorders. But once I'd worn that tape recorder out VHS was the only format available. BBC screened Alien and Aliens again so I taped them onto VHS. I remember a lesson in priesthood once where the teacher used as an example the BBC and the record Relax. At the time this record came out both the BBC and the church were in unison that the content of this record was unsuitable for them to broadcast it and banned it from all their channels, radio and TV. Some years later, the teacher demonstrated, the Relax record was played most days somewhere across the BBC network. The churches position was unchanged. So it was no surprised in hindsight that my favourite movies had become unwatchable because of the bad language that was now not edited out.

How do you think the business side of the church makes its money? They are no different to any other business with funds to spare. But don't confuse the hard nose business side of the church with the spiritual one. The business sector will act in accordance with the law they'll never do anything dishonest or unethical but that does not rule out being ruthless and taking advantage of a situation that can return a profit. The last time I checked, a few years ago, the church was worth $35 Billion but that worth far exceeds tithing receipts. Think not about how the church makes money but the good they do worldwide with it. If you leave the church then do because you no longer believe that Jesus Christ is the head of it and his only true church on Earth. Remember this BWJ there are only two possibilities either the Church is true or it is not the rest is or should be of little or no concern.

Now don't get me wrong I think America shows like the ones mentioned are fantastic and are watchable over and over again. In fact I’m not one of those Brits that prefer only homemade productions. I’ll sit for hours watching good foreign imports sub-titles and all if the essence of the show is right. While I vaguely recall the name Coupling I've never actually watched it. Thought our attempt on a Friend’s type format was ‘Cold Feet’ staring Helen Baxendale who featured in some episodes of Friends and I may add seemed totally out of place in them. Dialects are the plural of dialect because as in Britain you have many dialects.

Simon Cowel has a talent for saying what we think and because of that produces shows the like of the new wave of talent shows worldwide. That he has produced the least lasting candidates is perhaps for another discussion. When my daughter was over in Utah her accent was noticed all the time but mine and her mums which are not as posh as hers were not. Your shows therefore take only the riches of British voice and always to me seem out of place amoung the America dialects. Take a good Yorkshire twang and there you have real English speaking. On another note Britain produces some superb shows like The Office, Man about The House to name just two and then you take them up, localise them and sell them back to us to watch in dismay. We take the Likes of Friends, Everybody Loves Raymond, Two & Half men Etc Etc and we watched them as made and would never dream of remaking them in our own lanquage. And its not because your shows are better its why its always puzzeled me.

It's not just hair dye that can discolour the water the hair gel our young men like to wear can leave froth on the water towards the end of the session. But I remember the words of a temple president regarding what we should wear when we attend the temple which can apply to the subject. He said that while the mode of dress should be church standard when entering the temple if that is not possible then we take you as you are,

Hi Maureen,Now this was most definately for my purpose but was not emailed to me. But other emails clearly for someone else in the thread are, hence the confusion. What replies are sent via email and what are not?

Yes I understand that part but sometimes I get replies to questions I never even asked or people giving me advice or replies questions other people have made but now that I understand how it works I'll just ignor those that don't apply to me.

Now if I'm doing this right by using the reply tab within the members window it should go that member right? So Pam this should come to only you.