MsQwerty

Doesn't say much for us as a people who represent the Lord's true church now does it? I didn't define peculiar as perfect - I meant peculiar in the terms that the prophets use - to mean that we are a people who have higher moral standards and behaviour than the 'world' at large, that we can be a beacon and a light to others of what it means to live the principles of righteousness. What's there to admire and desire about the church if we (meaning church members) are just like anyone else? Isn't this part of the appeal of the missionaries, that they give the appearance of being morally upright, spiritual, righteous people who are living the gospel and obeying the Lord? As members, aren't we to do the same thing?: "If we are to be that which the Lord would have us be, we must indeed become “a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that [we] should shew forth the praises of him who hath called [us] out of darkness into his marvelous light” (1 Pet. 2:9). Unless the world alters the course of its present trends (and that is not likely); and if, on the other hand, we continue to follow the teaching of the prophets, we shall increasingly become a peculiar and distinctive people of whom the world will take note." Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign, 1990 "The Apostle Peter described us in the second chapter of 1 Peter, the ninth verse: “Ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light.” How might you and I qualify ourselves to be worthy of that designation, “a royal priesthood”? One writer said that the door of history turns on small hinges, and so do people’s lives." Thomas S. Monson, Ensign, 2007 "We should not allow our personal values to erode, even if others think we are peculiar. " James E. Faust If we will cling to our values, if we will build on our inheritance, if we will walk in obedience before the Lord, if we will simply live the gospel we will be blessed in a magnificent and wonderful way. We will be looked upon as a peculiar people who have found the key to a peculiar happiness." Gordon B. Hinckley Thanks for those numbers. I am not a statistician by any means. However, I have read various interpretations of what '13 million' means, when you take away almost half who are not active, and then take away the young children of record, and 25,000 here who are not active members (by that I assume you mean active members of the board?) If there are so many here alone who are having issues with serious sin, and if this is a reflection of other message boards, then we start to look like anyone else - nothing peculiar or special about how the gospel influences our lives at all. I've been in the church long enough to have seen this in action many times. I do not rest my testimony on the behaviour of others and encourage new members to do the same. All I'm saying is the trend towards serious sin becoming a fairly common event, is a tad troublesome.

Because this man's wife, his sister-in-law and two of his kids had made complaints about him, and on a church level nothing more was done but counselling with the family. Eventually, after many years as a stake president he was released but the first thing they did was call him to the YM Stake Presidency. His kids are a mess, his wife has stayed with him but her testimony is all but gone. So yes, he might be judged in the long term, but the damage he's wreaked on his family in this life has also affected their eternal progression. He and I were actually taught and baptized by the same missionaries many years ago. We attended the temple together as part of a reunion with one of those returned missionaries who came back with his family to meet the people he helped convert. I have never revealed what I know to anyone or how it's affected me, except here on this forum. I would never have burst our RM's joy at seeing all his converts and their families together.

What I was referring to was discovering after the fact - that I've attended the temple regularly with people who were the whole time committing terrible acts against their families. I've never pre-judged anyone's worthiness - that is none of my business.

All the general fluffiness that surrounds open houses is nice for the public, but in my opinion it does little to illuminate the reality of what happens during the ceremonies in the temple. It took me a very long time to find enjoyment in the temple (I took out my own endowments pre-1990). It was an experience I saved and struggled and spent two years preparing for, that left me feeling disturbed and nauseous to the point of vomiting for days after. It did get better for me post-1990 - marginally. I like the atmosphere of the temple, the surroundings, the way people interact with each other, how everyone is dressed in white and all are equal in a spiritual sense - but the actual ceremonies/ordinances just don't do much for me, even when I'm doing work for direct ancestors I feel a real bond with. Some of my feelings, I'm sure, are due to the fact I've known some pretty terrible human beings who are 'temple-worthy', even child molestors, who have attended the temple whilst committing the most unspeakable acts against their children and wives. I don't like being in the temple wondering 'who' might be one of those people. I have had a stake president who beat his wife (a friend of mine) and children and kept them living in poverty while he lavished expensive 'boy-toys' on himself - he attended the temple often and I simply could not attend when he was there.

I'm all for honesty, but I have to confess that the discussion forums here often discourage me. I'm not criticising anyone as this is purely my own reaction to the 'honesty' people present when they are anonymous online. I can't articulate my thoughts on this well, but I think it has something to do with wondering if most church members are, behind the Sunday masks, doubtful about their religion the majority of the time. Forums like this one influence my thinking when I look around at church and wonder if even my bishop has a testimony...and if we all doubt so much, then what on earth are we doing committing our lives to a church we have to continually convince ourselves we believe in? Forums are where people can post their true thoughts anonymously...if so many of us behind the scenes are either doubting Thomases, adulterers, porn addicts, gossips and so on, then I just wonder what makes us a 'peculiar people' at all? We may as well be any group of people if the gospel isn't changing our lives and making us somehow 'different' to the world at large. It's great for the public to see us 'human', but where do we draw the line? How do we show that the gospel offers something 'more' and different to what the 'world' has to offer?

This is a tough situation, but personally I would be wary of taking away your husband's agency by forcing him into a situation with the bishop that he is clearly not ready for. When he's ready, his need for repentance will be stronger than his fear of humiliation, but he's not there yet. Can you make the decision to go to the bishop and confess your own transgressions, leaving your husband out of it as much as possible?

Not sure if I'm allowed to post a link here, but I looked into this many years ago and found a great site created by a woman who runs a daycare at her home. I just did a quick search and found out she still has her messageboard going, with various daycare providers exchanging ideas. I recall finding it really useful even though I decided not to go through with the idea (see Elphaba's comment...). The site is called "Punkys Child Care Chat" (yes, I do know how to use an apostrophe, this is how it's titled) and it can be found at http://forums.delphiforums.com/care. And no, it doesn't cost anything.

Hi Baver3 - wow, I am just so sorry for what you are going through right now. But if it helps at all, many of us have been through similar situations and survived very well. I have a couple of things to add it that's ok. First of all, I can't tell you how disgusted I am that any man would leave his 7 month pregnant wife and young children - that speaks volumes about his lack of character. No matter what excuses he tells himself, it's utterly despicable and there is simply no way to justify it. Now for some advice if you want it: Be sure to keep the children with you and in your custody - when some men realize how much they will be paying in child support, they will try and take the kids into their own custody to live with them and their new girlfriend. If you haven't done so already, get temporary custody orders drawn up so he can't legally take the children from you. This is vital. It's amazing how paternal even the worst fathers can suddenly become when they realise they're going to have to part with money and give it to their ex-spouse. He will also get a big shock when this matter goes to court - because generally speaking you are entitled to at least half of all the assets acquired throughout the marriage. If he has property, cars, inheritances, superannuation, whatever - it is all half yours, no matter what kind of manipulative garbage he's said to make you feel that you haven't 'contributed' to the marriage. Make sure your lawyer knows about the property deed you mentioned earlier. I know too that you are doing the inevitable post-mortem on the relationship, trying to figure out if he's really that horrible or if you somehow 'caused' the breakdown of the relationship. I will just say that this time next year, it will be easier. Divorce will be settled, you will be in a new home with your children and they will go to visit their dad from time to time. Then the next year it will be even easier... and before you know it you just won't care what he's doing or who he's doing it with. All you'll care about is getting on with YOUR life and making the best possible life for your children. You will be surprised at how much happier you will be once you have put this relationship behind you. Imagine a daily life FREE of the stress and guilt you have been under with this man? Begin to see him as separate from you - your happiness is not dependent on him. Begin to see him only as the father of your children and (unless there is abuse of course) do what it takes to nurture their relationship with him. What he does with that opportunity is up to him, but you have to know in fifteen or twenty years time that you did your absolute best to keep those channels of communication open. People do manage, even after the most acrimonious of divorces, to be at least civil to each other for the sake of the children. From one who has been in a similar situation - keep your eyes focused towards the future. Tell yourself every day 'in one year from now...' and visualise where you will be. Then do what it takes to get your and your children there. The stress you are under is enormous, so I hope you are getting some support to help you with the kids while you are pregnant from family, friends or the church. I think you mentioned you've spoken to your bishop - if you haven't, let him and the RS president know of your needs so the church can take at least a little of the burden from your shoulders at this time. Even if it's just in the form of meals or someone to talk to. Bless you and your little ones - I'll keep you in my prayers too.

From what I read they are only interesting in people who want to conform to their very watered down ideas of what it means to stay in the lds church. I know someone who posted some very real, serious issues with the church and his posts never saw the light of day because the moderators wouldn't put them on the forum. Not much of a place for encouraging people to 'stay lds' in my opinion.

Tell that to all the highschool kids who commit suicide each year. Tell it to women who are raped. Tell it to children who are abused. There ARE victims - denying that reality is dangerous and cruel for those who suffer through no fault of their own.

Thank you. I should have taken it as a joke. My apologies for taking it the wrong way.

If that's a reference to my comment, I understand sarcasm just fine, thank you. What's with all the personal attacks in this forum?

People who are rude in forums when they don't have to be.

The silly non-issues we Mormons get our knickers in a twist over White Horse Prophecy - not endorsed by CURRENT church leaders. Doesn't matter who may or may not have alluded to it in the past (and it looks like no-one really has). As Elder Bruce R. McConkie said when after the 1978 Revelation that seemed to contradict many of his views on race - "Forget everything that I have said, or what President Brigham Young or George Q. Cannon or whoever has said in days past that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world." For those who lack understanding on this issue, this link has probably been posted before but please read: http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/whitehorse.pdf

*People who talk, crunch loudly, slurp their drinks and put their feet up on the back of your chair in movies...arrghhh!