Christos

I suppose that is the catch in the whole question. We instantly make the assumption that it must be a human to hear it. However as humans we will never know of the sound if it hasn't been reported to us. If we do not know about something...it never existed.

These are strange times we are living in. It isn't practiced in England but is it true what I have heard about shoe inspections in U.S. airports? I think that is going too far myself. We are living in times not only of political and socialogical struggles but also huge religious struggles. The She'ites and Sunnis of Islam, the Protestants and the Roman church* and the general clash between belief systems. Not only is there physical violence around us but also mental violence, with the internet came a huge threat of innocence both among adults and children, such things as pornography suddenly became hugely accessable. Credit card fraud made easier also. I would say it is farfetched to say that we are living in the end times....but that has been said many times before. *I always refer to it as the Roman church or "Roman Catholic" church because Catholic has a very different meaning.

It is a very dangerous thing to claim that a person is not Christian. Too often in the Western world we analyse and evaluate things without looking at the heart of the matter. Let God be the judge of who is and who isn't of his family.

Amen (I somewhat feel I shouldn't have started this thread, it is becomming a bit of a blood bath ) Basically the Creed is an inclusive testimony, concise and to the point. Also one must remember that Catholic does not refer to the church of Rome. It does mean the universal church as stated before. I suppose that if the creed were to be revised (yet again) that would be changed to avoid confusion. Yet the LDS church still sticks to the KJV as the only authorative translation of the bible...regardless of the fact that there have been many more revisions and accuracies made on the translation of the bible since 1611....also the bible is not corrupt. If you wish you may look at the original texts (which many are still in existance on Earth) or look at another account of the times that concurs with what is in the biblical texts. The Gospel according to St Thomas is such a text, though it was never added to the bible. (I feel I may have added more bait to the blood bath ) (I apologise for the use of a conjuntion in my third from last sentance, though this is not standard English grammer it is accepted in modern English standards...I also apologise for my running dots.(and use of brackets))(and double brackets)

That is the same question. The answer is that as there is noone there, the bears existance of a burp or even the bear itself doesn't exist.

I cannot see what it has against the fall. It talks about repentance, to repent you must repent for something therefore the fall. It does not directly call mary his mother but that is because yes Mary is the mother of Jesus but is also the medium through whihch Jesus came to Earth. A Bride without a Bridegroom. Mary was appointed by God to give birth to God's only begotten Son. Jesus was the fruit of her womb so Mary is Jesus' mother. The nicene creed is the standard Christian creed. Creed is the greek word for "I believe". Never take one source as containing all information. The creed could be much much longer but it was designed so that it contained the essentials and that it is easy to remember.

I have heard this from many people "Mormons do not accept the Nicene creed". I can't see any reason why you wouldn't though. We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end. And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen. If it is true that you do not please explain why. :) And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man Am I right in thinking that this passage goes against the LDS doctrine that we are living before we are born. That we are all Sons of God before Earth. I'm not sure but do you believe that we have physical bodies before birth or is that something that comes with an earthly life?

What I like to do is to invite the person to jam with me, I am a pianist and all my friends are talented muscians. It is quite strange, I know very few people who aren't musical.....we have this sort of magnetism . But really playing an instrument is a great way of bonding. Tomorrow I am going to play the pipe organ and my friend (who is a girl) will play the violin with me....I am so looking forward! Also girls love someone who can play an instrument confidently. :)

A great place to read about the trinity is in "The Orthodox Way" by Bishop Kallistos Ware. It is a book to introduce people to the Orthodox church but there is an entire chapter on the trinity and it is so easy to read and so deep. A good description of the trinity is three torches bearing one flame. Jesus is God just as the Father is God and just as the Holy Spirit is God. There is no heirarchy in God, all is equal, seperate yet one in essence. Imagine a pizza cut into three equal portions, it is the same pizza, the same flavour but it has three distinct parts. One of the reasons the Roman church seperated from "the way" (modern day orthodoxy) was because they believed that the Holy Spirit is inferior to the father and the son. That lead to the great schism from which a whole load of churches split off. I wonder if things would have been different if Joe Smith knew about the Orthodox church , not a denomination or a "church" in that sense but the continuation of the church established by Jesus Christ in AD 33 on the day of Pentecost in a small room. Like the LDS church there is direct lineage with modern Priests and the original Apostles and therefore Jesus the Christ.

But with God questions like this cannot really exist. We can simply say "God knows" which is all very good as it shows our dependance on God but it also removes any thought and narrows the answer to just followers of that God.

So God would hear the tree fall because of his Omniscience but I think this question was aimed more at man. It isn't actually a question about the tree or sound but about truth, what is truth? Is it true to a man if he doesn't know about it? I believe not, truth is personal and human truth isn't entirely accurate. Everything we learn is an assumption. There has to be a being there for the tree to make a sound otherwise nothing happened. I believe the answer is "There is no tree".

LOL!!!!! Darn... too quick for me there Bones.... I was laughing too! Oh, and my guess? PURPLE! And my answer to the tree question..... Yes it makes a noise! But only for those who are able to hear it. ( I do like that comment on the vibration though..... makes you think a little more :) ) and NO OAF.... you are NOT stupid.... it'a just a very good thought provoking question.... a lot of right anwers I am sure. That is what I said, the tree can only make a noise IF there is someone to hear it. (we are one in thought )

If it happened to a mosque, the world would be at war in an instant. Saying that, a Sunni Shrine was bombed recently (and Sunni's are thought of as being the more orthodox form of Islam, the She'ites are thought of as heretics....but that is an outsider view, I know little about islam) As for Lindy's message, I believe it is very true. Religion is a scapegoat for political activity and so it has been for centuries, one of the most extreme cases being the anti-semetic actions of the National Workers Socialist Party of Germany....otherwise known as the NAZI's. Are we any different? Terrorism = middle east = islam = muslims are terrorists. The government tries to cover up this steriotype (and scapegoat) by trying to show favour towards Islam (often at the expense of Christians). There was a T.V. programme recently on our screens (in the U.K.) about a white man who died his hair and skin dark and grew a beard to see how people would react to someone who appears to be muslim. He would wear traditional dress and would carry a back pack and he got very dirty looks of people in the underground and was targetted often by the police who were "carrying out safety proceedures".

Very good points. However a good conversation is a spontanius conversation so never plan what you are going to say. Don't come out with anything geeky or specialist (unless you two are both obsessed with the object in question), you wouldn't walk up to a random person and ask "so what is your favourite type of trim for a zelkova japonica bonsai tree?" Small talk first BUT don't keep it in small talk, I know too many people who can't progress from small talk , they appear shallow (though they may not be) and shallowness is a quality you want to avoid. Also try to keep on topic, when you drift off topic you are likely to say something embarressing.

It's ok, I think I was looking at it from a slightly different angle. You appear to be looking at what the nature of God is and I was looking at what evil is. I believe that Evil is the lack of Good and as all things that are Good are from the Lord nothing that he does can be wrong. To sin (among other definitions) is to go against the commandments or requirements of God, therefore to do something that is not of God. Still it is not of us to determine what is and what isn't of God, this is one of the greatest mysteries. One thing I do believe in is that there are two levels to truth, the celestial and terrestial. The truth of the terrestial is man made, built of assumptions and human theories, though it may hold fast for a long time it can be easily disproven by something very simple. For many years man believed the world was flat and that the horizon marked the end of the world, sailors would be terrified of falling off the edge. This was of course disproven by Colombos and earlier Galileo Galilee (though few believed him). Celestial truth is (as the name suggests) of the Heaven's, it is infinite infalliable truth, a kind of truth that is true to the very meaning, unchanging and unchangable. On Earth we do not know much celestial truth, an example of this sort of truth is the existance of God. God exists and it is unchangable. This is not to get confused with Terrestial truth which is built upon assumption and faith. Sorry for babbling on a bit. Of course what I have just written is a form of Terrestial truth which is personal, it is not infalliable and can be overridden by a more superior form of truth, usually in the form of a more sound theory. (it is 11:34pm here and I am sort of tired so I might have just typed a load of garbage) I did do a lot of reading on Philosophy and logic about half a year ago but I have been focusing on my biblical studies recently. I remember in my last vacation we were in a very tall hotel and I was in the bath reading Plato's Symposium when I heard a man run down the corridor screaming "fire!", this was at about 2am .

This is very sad. The Northern Ireland hostilities are scary and frightening are beyond disputations between churches, they are a form of patriotism and family pride . I wonder what the Northern Irish would think of me? An Orthodox , neither Catholic or Protestant but of the original church estabilised on the day of Pentecost AD33. [feel like I am treading on thin ice on this forum posting that] We must never think of our houses of worship as being protected. They are built from earth and are of Earth. It is not the building itself but what it houses that is of value. In some parts of the world armed men have been known to disrupt worshippers and hold them hostage. Even though I live in a country that is low on the terrorism list I do keep in my mind the constant threat of such a thing happening. It makes me want to cry when I think of those who are persecuted for their faith. One day I will visit the holy land but I know that security will be the dominant issue , I would also like to see Petra (Jordan) and Babylon (modern day Iraq). There was also a Turkish Priest who was killed in Turkey.

I beg to differ. One of the greatest things about God is that he is the God of Creation. Through him all things were made, without him nothing. God is not limited. Everything is within his almighty power, this is what makes him Omnipotent (all powerful). For something to be good it must be from God. For something to be evil it must lack the requirements of Good and is therefore sin (and sin leads to death). God could gamble and cheat etc BUT as they would then be from God they would be therefore good. We must not think of God from an earthly viewpoint. It is written that a person is more likely to measure the entire seas with a single cup than to understand the mysteries of God. The more you learn the more you realise you have to learn. Ecclesiastes 1:18 (King James Version) 18For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow Very interesting. I am not trying to argue this point, but to merely add additional insight, just insight, because I really have no clue of the reality of the situation. To those who inheret the highest realm of Celestial glory, they are promised Worlds without end, one will assume that this process will continue and that there will be more and more new Gods to make new 'worlds without end'. If there is a continual increase of Gods making new worlds, and a finite amount of matter, however large, then one can assume a few possibilities: 1) The amount of matter will eventally run out 2) Old worlds are recycled into new ones (Unless of course when a world is done it will be renewed to its paradicisial glory forever) 3) There is really a "worlds cap" and that "without number" is just describing a huge number that we cannot comprehend. I am sure there are more possibilities, but those are the ones that immediately come to my mind. Also, does HF really have control of ALL matter? What about other gods? That also begs the question, does HF really know everything? What about the thoughts of other gods? Gods?

One of my favourite riddles but one that I have settled on an answer for. If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there will it make a sound? The true answer is in "what is truth?". A truth is what a person knows. It is in the triangle of acceptance/knowledge/truth. If you drop one of the three elements truth cannot exist. A tree can only make a sound if a person accepts the sound that the tree makes, this is through the recognition of the sound via the ear. The person would then have knowledge of the sound and it would be true. The person however might hear a sound but see no tree, there is no proof of the tree. On Wednesday I was in Canterbury for a music audition and we heard a strange sound outside, the professor thought it was a tea trolley, it turned out to be a photocopier being moved. So the person must first of all see the tree to know that a tree exists. What you see is only true for as long as you see it. If you know where every item in your house is and leave it you assume it will be there when you go back, but that is an assumption, there is little to stop one of the objects being moved by either an intruder or natural consequences. The answer to the riddle is that there is no tree. God can make a rock so big that he cannot lift it BUT God is not stupid. Why would God give a material object higher rule over himself? But it wasn't said that the rock would be in the same physical universe as this. Assumptions are the greatest flaw for too many philosophers. Physically though your theory is likely to be sound. Physists believe that the entire universe started off as one ball of matter and will end in one ball of matter, the big bang and the big crunch. (for all you grammar freaks....I'm sorry about using a conjuntion at the start of a statement )

Miracles do happen but sometimes I think it could be someone trying to get attention. I have heard of statues of the Mother crying and when I was in Greece I have seen beautiful icons with silver tears running from her eyes, it is so beautiful and moving. I severely doubt that those are works of man, the Orthodox church is increadibly reverent and would never mark their icons to get pubilcity. One of my friends lost his rosary on the beach, it sunk under the sand and he thought he lost it forever. The next day he was walking along the beach and the rosary literally rose from the sand at his feet. A day later! A lot of it is believe what you want to believe. If you want to see images you might make them up or be over observant. Yesterday I commited a sin (as I tend to do ) and I was transferring music to my MP3 player, the computer froze and it showed my capacity, "66.6% empty". I am not superstitious but this did shock me and reminded me not to sin again. Going back onto the Orthodox miracles, I went to one island in Greece, the beautiful volcano of Nissyros and there is a monastery built because of a miracle (a lot of monasteries are built because of miracles). During the Turkish occupation the churches were emptied. One of the icons that were thrown into the sea was found again after the occupation in a field high in the mountains in a field. The man (I think he might have been a monk who was farming) rushed back to the town to celebrate the finding of the icon. Then the icon was stolen and again went missing. Then the icon was found again. It is now very old and as icons are made on wood they disintigrate and so it is still in existance but incorporated into a new icon which is in the monastery, I wish I had time to see it.

I do believe the Bible to be true. I also believe that the Bible should consist also of the Apocrypha, biblical texts that were found some centuries later, like (my two favourite books of wisdom) Ecclesiasticus and the Book of Solomon, not to be confused with Ecclesiastes and Song of Solomon (Song of Songs) Though written by man they writings are not false. As our God is not one of deception. As for the many hundreds of translations, they don't really fit into the equation. If you must you could read the Ancient Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic but till I learn those languages I will stick with my collection of English Bibles. Though I love the K.J.V. I do not believe it was sent down from heaven hanging on a piece of string, it is just another revision of William Tyndales Bible (1535) which is a revision of the Wycliffe bible of 1391. Both of these men were martyred for their translations though a few years later than the Tyndale Henry VIII ordered "The Great Bible" which was attached to church pulpits so that literate English people could read God's word for the first time. The bible was now able to be read to the masses. The King James is a relatively modern version (1611) and it is written in an archaic style even for that period. In the south of England people weren't using Thou and Thee much any more, "You" had taken over....though it was still being used in the north of England into the 1960's . I cross reference my bibles, I use the New Living Translation for just reading, the King James for reading/studying and when I am studying properly I use: King James Version Young's Literal Translation New International Version New Revised Standard Version and some others (which I get off the internet when I need them). I do not accept the B.O.M. and the assocaited scriptures for the reason stated in Galatians 1:6-9. One day I will buy a small pocket sized apocrypha, the only bible I have with it in is a HUGE K.J.V. which I can hardly lift it is so heavy.

Are cell phones allowed at school? Yes. The Sixth form (two years before university) are allowed to use them whenever appropriate. Students are discouraged from bearing mobile phones but for some it is an almost necessity. I know if it wasn't for my mobile I wouldn't be able to do as much as I do. (extra curricular activities etc) What happens if you get caught with one? Nothing, but if it is in a meeting you get severely frowned at. The lower school might have their phone confiscated off them if caught with it on in lessons but they will get it back at the end of the school day. Is texting a big deal where you are? Yes, I don't personally use texts, too expensive and not as fun as talking Can you text without looking at the buttons? No....and I have had a phone for about 6 years. I never really use my mobile but now I am on contract I try to use up my text allowence. Can your parents rely to your texts...do they know how? I assume this is "reply to your texs". Yes both of my parents are phone literate :) Who pays for your cell phone? My mum. it is sad that kids abuse things that could be a good thing when needed. ya they cheat they can put the answers to tests on their phones and cheat GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR i think if a child has a phone it should be turned off and in their locker or car. but it has saved my butt a few times when they have an emergency and the office is to busy to let them use the phone. theyare not allowed to use office phones unless the sec. calls for them and there is only one pay phone and it's only excessable at night during games....so if they cancell school due to a snow storm while the kids are in school (happens alot here ) the phone is backed up. also when their sick or want to go some where after school. I would never post the answers to an exam through mobile phone.....why? Why would I want to have a lower chance of passing by giving someone else the answers . As for MP3 players, I have mine on during a lot of my classes, my Art class, my English Language class and sometimes music. Usually I just have backing music on, I work better with music. I don't know how I would do art without music...it is a necessity. Some teachers don't mind I-pods, some hate them and some even encourage them. (my school sounds really unstrict compared to yours )

To put it into context. Mark 12 1And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country. 2And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard. 3And they caught him, and beat him, and sent him away empty. 4And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled. 5And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some. 6Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son. 7But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours.' 8And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard. 9What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others. 10And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner: 11This was the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 12And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them: and they left him, and went their way. 13And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words. 14And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not? 15Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it. 16And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's. 17And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him. 18Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying, 19Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. 20Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed. 21And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise. 22And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also. 23In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife. 24And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? 25For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. 26And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? 27He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err. 28And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. 32And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 34And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question. 35And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David? 36For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. 37David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly. 38And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces, 39And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts: 40Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation. 41And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. 42And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. 43And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: 44For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living. Yes, the passage starts off with the ancient jewish law/tradition that a woman when married must concieve a son, if the husband dies she must seek another. This was partly because of the little role that women had in society and that without a husband couldn't really live, no income, little support. But the heart of this passage is when Jesus is asked where the marriage goes after death and which husband she would be married to. To which Jesus replies 25For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. Angels need not marry because they are in the court of God. Praising through eternity. Also when we die we (the church) will be the bride of Christ (can't find the particular verse I am looking for, it is in Revelations but here is a verse with similar meaning) Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Saviour. Though of course that verse does not directly say that the church is the bride of Christ (wish I could find that verse) it talks about Christ being the head of the church as the husband is the head of the wife, that dates back to Leviticus to the law that women must wear head coverings when worshipping or preaching, this law is re-instated in the new covenant in Pauls epistle to the Corinthians I would like to add that since I am not God, and never can become like God due to the very nature of me that I am not infalliable and though my opinons may not be equal to the divine wisdom of the Almighty I have tried my Earthly best to convey what I would like to say. Kyrie Eleison Chris BTW, the not having divine wisdom bit is usually assumed by people, I haven't yet come across a person who is totally infalliable and is a fount of divine wisdom. Maybe I will one day but I doubt it.

That sounds very uncivil. As PrisonChaplain said, the audience is not only the thread starter. Are you trying to push me away from the LDS religion? It seems strange, you are called to evangelise but you would rather critisize. Kyrie Eleison Chris How do you understand them then? That IS why I posted this thread. That sounds very uncivil. As PrisonChaplain said, the audience is not only the thread starter. Are you trying to push me away from the LDS religion? It seems strange, you are called to evangelise but you would rather critisize. Kyrie Eleison Chris wait a minute......you are calling me uncivil????......lets go back...you were the one on your..."Iam unsure" post that asked a question and them became upset and said...."I am not coming back here anymore " or something like that...and now you come back and ask another question and if you go back you will see your answers to your question..... Obviously there is a difference in the definition of "civil" between us. This does not require any further comments.

That sounds very uncivil. As PrisonChaplain said, the audience is not only the thread starter. Are you trying to push me away from the LDS religion? It seems strange, you are called to evangelise but you would rather critisize. Kyrie Eleison Chris

If you want to look at it in context you may. I did not choose to remove it from context I only posted the Relevent area of that chapter. As for "who am I to teach". I am no one. I myself am only human BUT I was quoting the gospel of Christ. That is not my teaching but the teaching of Jesus the Christ. If I were to copy something from Einstien it would not be my teaching but his teaching.