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Everything posted by Seminarysnoozer

  1. I believe yes. Because, again, as stated previously, I think most of us would agree the law and calling was to raise a righteous people not to amass wives. If a man desires to raise righteous children, than that is the righteous desire and the proper focus. I don't think any of the men that practiced polygamy righteously would say that they "desired multiple wives." The desires of the heart have to be in the right place for just about every law of God to be good. Just like a charitable act done with a desire to receive some kind of recognition from men is a sin.
  2. Jonathan, I think the law of polygamy is another thing that is just outside our grasp right now, like the law of consecration. From this discussion it is obviously hard to understand and probably even harder to practice. My understanding is closest to what Maxel and beefche have said. Almost everything in the gospel is focused on bringing about the immortality and eternal life of man. If it is a practice that pushes that along than its good. I've had this discussion with my husband, many times. I think if your focus is on yourself, that you could enjoy the relationships with many partners, than that is wrong. If it is that you desire it because you want to raise more children under the covenant than that may be a good desire. You should ask yourself, how many children do you have now? How many more do you think you can handle as a father? ... and as a good father? My husband makes a good living. We could, financially, take care of several more children than the 4 we have right now. But, we have prayed and decided together that we couldn't meet the spiritual demands of more children without taking away quality, testimony building, time with our 4 children as it is now. I have a girlfriend who has 12 children, her husband is in the stake presidency, a good man, but he would barely recognize his children if they had any more. And, she is a rare wonderwoman. If you think it is the wife alone that raises the children, that is wrong. I believe, especially in the society we live in, it would be very difficult for a man to have more than one wife and raise more righteous souls than a single wife could produce. I'm sure there are a few incredible people out there that could but I've never met them. Most of my friends wish they had more time with their children. It may be possible if the man didn't work or have other responsibilities or could incorporate time with the children with work, like on a farm maybe. So, (you don't have to answer - just ask yourself) I am curious how many children you currently have and how many you think you could provide for both temporally and spiritually. ... And is that number more than one wife could provide? On top of that, there are many children that could benefit from a righteous environment already out there... I think 'octo-mom' has a few. Take on more children first before you even think about taking on more wives, then you will understand the limit of your desires. We all have to learn how to walk before we can run. At the moment, it makes me a little nauseous to think about worlds without number, So, I'll focus on the 4 I have.
  3. There are many problems in our health care and many great things but I have to disagree with Obama and some of you who think the problem lies with doctors ordering tests. First of all, there are anti-kickback and self referral laws in all states, like the Stark laws. If the doctors you work with are making money for choosing a procedure that is less effective, in most cases that would fall under those laws and they should be prosecuted under the existing laws. There is no need to make more laws or a whole new system costing billions for that, just enforce the laws already there. Secondly, your premise that doctors order tests (that they don't perform themselves) primarily for money, is just sad. If you think doctors are doing that, I don't know why you would think some company or government employee would not do that even more. Thirdly, I can tell you why most doctors order the tests they do ... because it's the "standard of care" and if they didn't order those tests and something went wrong they would get sued. It has nothing to do with charging the customer more or milking the system with unnecessary tests. Standard of care means that if everyone else is doing it around you, then you are expected to order those same tests and suggest the same treatments or you find yourself out on a long, thin limb. Another important point is that doctors do NOT make money by referring. Most doctors, also, don't care about losing patients, there are not enough doctors to go around as it is. Most fields of medicine are under served, so that's not a reason to order or not order a test or procedure. I think the other misconception is that there are different levels of health care. A doctor cannot provide anything other than the "gold standard" of health care for that location, so in other words there is only one health care service in the US. There isn't a luxury health care and a standard health care and an economy health care, like cars. For any given condition, a doctor can't say for this patient I will order the MRI but for this one over here I am not. Now, if the patient asks, "how much does that cost and what would happen if I don't get it?" then the doctor explains the reasons behind it and the patient can refuse to do it. But, if the doctor doesn't even offer the test when it is indicated or its the standard of care for that particular disease or orders a less than "gold standard" test then he/she runs the risk of being sued ... they are not going to do that. For example, if a patient comes into the ER with a new onset headache, they have to get the $500.00 lumbar puncture to rule out meningitis and the $2000.00 MRI to rule out tumor even though only 1 out of 5000 times they find anything (I don't know the exact number, 100, 500, 5000, 50,000 whatever, just making a point). Because it's the one time they miss that they will be sued for millions of dollars. So, the problem is not at the doctor level. This is kind of like the statement about filling up the tires with air, it makes everyone feel like there is something to change to make it all better but sorry, it's not that simple.
  4. Seeker7, sorry this is so long .... I think we have to take one step back to help you understand the plan of salvation and that is asking you what you think "bliss" is? For most Mormons I know, bliss is not a finite state achieved. True eternal happiness for most Mormons is to have eternal increase. To be able to have eternal increase all of these things have to happen. If you believe that "bliss" is a single state of being, then I can see how you would ask why didn't God just put us into that state to begin with. There is one thing God or anyone can't do and that is to realize something has been done before it is actually done. Even knowing that something will happen in the future is not the same as knowing that it has. In other words, you can't get credit for potential. You have to actually complete the act to receive the glory or happiness or reward for that act. There is no glory in saying that I could do this or that. This is why we use the words "bring to pass" a lot. To bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. The Celestial Kingdom, at least this is my belief, is going to be full of people like the prophet Joseph Smith, they are always on Gods errand. They don't stop to rest and they find happiness in that work. They hunger and thirst to understand how to have eternal increase, knowing that it comes by actually living and doing His work. Eternal happiness is having the ability to keep growing, (which to me means still working hard) after this life. If you do not want that kind of "lifestyle" so to speak, God will not give it to you. All of our latter day prophets that I know about have that characteristic, they would be hard to slow down, to take a break. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: "When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the Gospel--you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil [died] before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave" Think of all the things that have really made you happy in this life. Sure sitting on a beach in Hawaii under the sun is fun but I've felt most happy when I have achieved something I've worked hard for or watch my kids achieve and meet milestones. To have the ability to continue to grow and have purpose is true happiness. Even if God were able to give you all knowledge the one thing He couldn't give you is the knowledge that you have done something you really haven't. And just knowing that you have the potential is not the same as doing it. The other part of eternal happiness to understand is family. This part of happiness is easier to understand after you have a temple marriage and have children. God said of those who were not willing to pay the full price of exaltation through full obedience to his whole law: “Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.“For these angels did not abide in my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.” (D&C 132:16–17.) Understanding what eternal happiness is first, helped me understand the Plan of Salvation, realizing that it's not just a state of mind, its having the same purpose and errand as God. If I stayed in the state I am in right now or even before this life, like being stuck in the 4th grade or something, my happiness is limited. My salvation and fullness of joy comes from getting to that place where I can have eternal increase (family and knowledge) and happiness. "Well done; . . . thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord" (Matthew 25:23). Joy comes from having an increase in our responsibilities. Seeker7, hope that helps you understand the specifics of the plan.