Seminarysnoozer

I think this commandment also shows you the importance we have to our Heavenly Father. The way to honor your parents is to make them proud of you. Like when Heavenly Father at Jesus' baptism said, this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased. I think it underlines the purpose of God, that His glory is dependent on our success. If we failed to move forward in our development this world would cease to exist, "our days would be short." There would be no reason to create us and create this world if it didn't please Him. That same type of glory or happiness is had when our children do well and do the right things, as happened when my children were baptized, some of the happiest days of my life. If we continue to remain as family units in the next life our achievement becomes their achievements and can continue forever. This commandment is overlooked by many religions, in my opinion, one of the lessons being God gains something from our achievements and we are to learn that and know that by honoring our parents. Obeying this commandment teaches us that principle.

I think this topic is interesting. I try to avoid eating meat as much as I can and force my family to follow the same diet (they have no choice, hahaha). I find it interesting though that God gave the herb bearing seed and trees as the "meat" for Adam and Eve and all the animals before the fall. In a perfect world that seems to be the right set up for sustenance. I think it's good not to develop a strong taste for meat because in the next life it won't be available and we know we carry with us the same passions and desires here through to the next. "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."

Yes, I agree. I have a hard time understanding why the designation "Christian" is more important to some than following the teachings of Christ. That's almost like asking if we are all Muslim, because doesn't "Muslim" mean follower of God? At judgment day, God will not use the term "Christian" or "Muslim" or "Mormon" or "Pentecostal." In all the days of going to LDS church, I cannot remember one lesson on striving to be labeled by the world as "Christian." Yes, there are leaders of the church that try to clarify what is is to be Christian but what I am trying to say is the label "Christian" has nothing to do with the gospel, its just an earthly label. In the end, whether you group people with the term or divide people with the term, it makes no difference to God.

I sometimes learn what is ailing my children through family prayer more than I do with our normal everyday conversation and that is a very significant thing.

One of the things that has become more obvious to me is that many people in this world do not look at God as our Father in Heaven, in the literal sense. I think there is a deeper meaning to understanding the importance of family and that is that we are all part of a spiritual family, literal daughters and sons of our Heavenly Father. Growing up LDS that seems so obvious to me but now I realize a lot of people don't have that basic understanding of Gods nature, His purposes, His organization and where His glory comes from. Knowing that we are literal children of our Heavenly Father has more significance when you live honorably in a family unit here. It makes you realize how twisted Christ's teachings became when people thought it was a good thing that priests went celibate all their lives. There is almost no better microcosm of God's love and our place in His kingdom than seen in a loving family. How better to understand the nature of God then by honoring your parents? It would be nice if everyone saw our Heavenly Father as an actual father and not some indescribable force floating through the heavens.

You know, a lack of abstract thought process is one of the features of dementia.

My two cents, even though it's already been said .... for the most part I believe God has order in everything. There is one way, the right way, to do anything that pertains to eternal realms, for everything else there are multiple ways of doing things. I have a hard time believing in an all-knowing, perfect God, that would say - just do it however you want, it's the effort that counts. At the same time, God lets us "fall off the bike and scrape our knees" so to speak, because there is value in learning how and doing it for ourselves. So, what I am trying to say is that I believe there is only one right way but at the same time, other baptisms still count for something in the eyes of the Lord. I think God knows our intentions and what is in our heart. He will take that into consideration and that will probably weigh more heavily than most things. Even a correct Baptism with proper authority done on someone who has wrong intentions will not be right.

I think about these same things. I think the core curriculum does not include extra-credit, in other words I think we can all do more than the minimal requirements to reach Eternal Life for that dispensation. I think that a person will be judged by the commandments of the day and not some other standard. I won't be punished for not doing animal sacrifice like Adam or Noah. Or be punished for not giving everything I own to the Bishop like the saints of Missouri were asked to do. I think this is why the true church has to having living Prophets and Apostles who communicate with God to let us know what is considered "living in error" or not. Thankfully the Apostles tell my husband not to look at internet pornography otherwise he might say; "the original Apostles said nothing about the internet." (just teasing ... he reads my posts sometimes, I know he wouldn't do that) ... this is actually a good point ... I don't think we always have to have our own discerning spirits, we can rely on the discerning spirits of the Prophet and Apostles. I think if we do what the Prophet and Apostles say we don't have to worry about living in error.

In my opinion, I don't think God wants you to learn wrong. He may have to teach you 'addition' before you learn 'calculus'. But I wouldn't call 'addition' a half-truth. It's just not the fullness of truth. And I agree with allowing persons or groups to live in limited understanding for a period of time. If I recall correctly, the scriptures give examples of 'precious truths' that are not revealed to a people because they are not ready for them. Even now we are living in a time of limited understanding. We have the welfare program for example instead of the law of consecration.

"Killing" as you put it, to God, is not the same as a person taking the life of someone else. Having the person return home, which is the better way of saying "killing" from an eternal perspective is more like having a child return home from college because they are not taking it seriously. Or if you are administering a test and you see a child just scribbling on the paper, you would say, "ok, the test is over." His specific reasons for ending any one persons mortal existence remain unknown to us. As I stated in an earlier post, Gods reasons for doing these things mostly have to do with keeping the world on track with His plans. The flood is a good example, it was so corrupt, even a good spirit would have struggled in that atmosphere, so He had to clean it up, for His purposes. And ... I agree with what Justice said, granting Eternal Life to all His children would be unmerciful. Besides the fact sending any unclean thing to the presence of Heavenly Father is impossible .... Like sending a 4 year old to Law School, it wouldn't mean anything to the 4 year old and it would be boring and painful to the 4 year old. It wouldn't be to the 4 year old's advantage to go to Law School at that age. Likewise God, like any father, would not give something to their child that they did not want or could be for their benefit. Eternal Life is of no benefit to those that do not want to be exactly like our Heavenly Father.

If I had a friend that said that this was obvious proof that the work is fiction, then I would say its time to move on. I wouldn't waste my time discussing the gospel with people that are not humble enough to receive the truth. Just be their friend and a good example, then maybe they will soften their hearts. These are the people Jesus talks about "because, they seeing see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand." ... its ok to move on without understanding why their hearts are hardened.

I think there is a difference between following the light of Christ that is in everybody and following the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Both can be described as feelings or promptings and can be strong. The iron rod, though, is straight, I don't think it has curves or has branching points. And I don't think there are more than one iron rods. In fact, the people in the large building keep telling the people holding onto the rod to let go and take a different path. The Holy Spirit would never tell you to let go of the iron rod. PC said; "But what happens when the spirit seems wrong? For example, if I were to tell you I prayed about the truth of the LDS Godhead teaching, vs. the Trinity, and felt a burning truth about your doctrine, you'd easily say, "Amen--whatever it costs you, PC, follow the spirit." ... One way to know that it is the Holy Spirit's promptings is that it would not "seem wrong." To me, at least, that is the definition of the promptings from the Holy Spirit, that it feels 100% right, there is no doubt. If it is less than that, I would suggest that it is just a feeling from within, and then if you acted on it and prayed about it, you may get a confirmation from the Holy Spirit, then again you may not. For me, I would say, I have only had that kind of confirmation in my life maybe a handful of times.

I don't see what the problem is with this scripture. If anything it points towards the veracity of the Book of Mormon. How would a farm boy in the early 1800s know that there are complex motor circuits in the spinal cord that drive reflexic movements, like jerking when you touch something hot or step on something sharp or catch your breath when you jump in cold water. How would he know of the complex neuroanatomy, that dopamanergic neurons from the motor circuits of the brain suppress those spinal cord reflexes and when let loose suddenly they act on their own, like a headless chicken (well that part he would know), the same phenomenon that causes restless leg syndrome. ... and that there are accessory muscles of breathing in the chest that are suddenly let loose when there is lack of dopamanergic inhibition. ... I don't see what the problem is with this scripture anyways, but even then we don't know if that was a figure of speech or an actual event or a commonly used phrase to describe someone who is taking a long time to die. It's insignificant.

Thanks, I agree. After all, Joseph Smith studied many religions and doctrine before his first vision. It's the "minus the guideposts" as you put it, that is the problem. If the "turn right" guidepost is missing when you do your comparison, it takes you in a different direction. .... and I wasn't trying to make a logic versus mystery argument, was more trying to make the partial logic versus partial logic argument, like the blindmen comparing the different parts of the elephant. Comparing the trunk to the ear is not really comparing. As you know, LDS believe there are parts of the gospel missing from the bible and you can be turned away from it because the description of the ear says nothing about the leg, so to speak. Besides, we have the Apostles "touching the elephant" right now, so to speak.

You have to also realize that the Book of Mormon is a translation from a different language. The way things are said in one language can be totally different in another and may even sound silly in another. Let me give you one example: If I said the TV doesn't work. You wouldn't think that I was saying the TV doesn't labor or have a job. You would immediately understand that what I was trying to say is that the TV doesn't function. And if you were trying to say that in Portuguese, the direct translation from portuguese to English would be "the TV doesn't give" because in Portuguese the verb "to give" is another way of saying something doesn't function. To attempt to take a breath may have been the way to say in the original language that the person looked like they took a long time to die. We don't know. That is why there are a lot of verses in the scriptures that say something to the effect of; "in other words" like when it says, "I have dreamed a dream, or in other words, I have seen a vision."

PC, I agree with most of what you say in post #8, except the part where you talk about comparison, "find out which most closely matches the Apostles' teachings." That would be like comparing the mustard seed to the mustard plant. The mustard seed looks a lot more like an orchid seed than it does a large plant or tree for that matter, even though the mustard seed and the mustard plant are the same things, just different points of time. Or if you pulled a book from the library of which the last few chapters on Algebra and Calculus were ripped out, and then later you found a book that had those chapters, you wouldn't compare the chapter on Calculus with the chapter on division. The two don't look at all alike but are part of the whole field of mathematics. Because your original book only had chapters on addition, subtraction and division doesn't mean that you should dismiss books on algebra and calculus. Also ... enticing spirits of the devil can be hard to discern from the spirit of God, that has to be learned... that is the process of learning right from wrong. It's not a one step process. It's a many step process that is linked together by faith. Otherwise, the message of truth is like the seed that is thrown into rocky ground and has no root or like the seed that is sewn amongst thorns and bears no fruit because there are other interests and being pulled in different directions away from the truth. "hesitant to believe any 'leading' that (you) get" is the same as not having faith. "over intellectualizing" I think can be like the thorns in that parable, it chews up the energy needed to have faith and let the seed grow. I think spending a lot of time comparing and developing a testimony based on proof can choke out the seed. (see Mark 4)

verse says he struggled for breath, not that he took a breath.

I can't see the purpose of God putting a female spirit in a male body or visa-versa. I do believe, though, there is a bell shaped curve as to the female and male attributes of each individual spirit and that could be the root of some confusion. And in other people it may be that the spirit is not confused but the corrupted body has genes that influence actions different from what their spirit attributes would choose, creating confusion. ... or a combination of the two. But, I don't believe God would put a female spirit into a male body or a male spirit into a female body. He would not limit their growth that way, such as the opportunity to bear children or to hold the priesthood.

A child today at the age of 8, I think has more education than most had in their whole life during Jesus' time. An 8 year old today could easily, just like Jesus, sit with the doctors of that time and listen to them and ask them questions and astonish them with their understanding. Haven't we all watched, "Are you smarter than a 5th grader?" My two children that are older than 8, read the entire Book of Mormon and New Testament before they were baptized at the age of 8.

I would like to point out that defining "christian" has little to do with the gospel, because the label "christian" is something of this world. It is a label made by man. At judgment God will not ask if other people called you "christian" or not. Maybe He will ask if you had a testimony of Christ and His resurrection but He certainly won't require a person to have the label "christian." And it seems to me it the label came about from people outside the religion. ... kind of like the label "Mormon" and then it stuck. ... thats why it is hard to understand, its a label created by man, so the definition changes.

I think "God's justice during our earthly probation" has more to do with his overall purposes and not an individual judgment. If it is something that will slow down or stop God's overall plan to bring about the eternal life of man then He may intervene and meet out judgment through His own actions our through the hands of His servants. But, I don't think those acts are final judgments or just done for punishment, they are for a bigger purpose, to continue the overall plan of God to continue and to provide opportunity for His children to carry out the purposes of this world. The judgments for sins in this world were never intended to be paid in full while we are still here, in fact I think you can only really pay them in full when a person completely understands the gravity of the sin. If someone hasn't repented then they will not fully understand the gravity of the sin until that is revealed to them in spirit prison. So, even if someone was "struck dead" for a sin here, the punishment is not over until they fully understand the gravity of their sin, not until the next life. And, I think, that would be worse than the death penalty itself. Remember what was said to Nephi, " 1 Nephi 4:13 Behold the Lord slayeth the wicked to bring forth his righteous purposes. It is better that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief." ... that would be a reason a person is struck dead by God, or delivered to one of His servants for punishment, there is a bigger reason, sometimes we don't know all the reasons, sometimes we find out in the scriptures. But even for Laban, his death in Nephi's hands is not the end of his punishment for stealing Lehi's possessions and not listening to the commandments from God. I don't think those things are for 'justice' they are just to keep the world on track with God's purposes for this world.

The laws of justice and mercy are already served through Jesus, if you follow His plan and repent. If you do not repent of your sins then you will have to look forward to justice. So, to answer the original question (sorry, didn't understand your question until now) ... If one has to look forward to justice, then it is not joyful. Through repentance though, we don't have to look forward to justice, justice has already been paid.

Thanks PC, I think that is the best answer. And I'm glad Justice answered a question about justice, lol ... his post explains how it is all possible. (I have a 13 year old daughter too, but she has never asked those kinds of questions, good job Justice) Justice has already been served as far as God is concerned because Jesus paid the price for all the sins. And his mercy is also complete in allowing Jesus to pay the price. So, when you ask about a reprieve from God's justice, which God are you talking about?

I've never really understood the designation 'cult.' Seems to me whenever I've looked it up, it implies a new religion that doesn't really claim roots from another religion and led by a charismatic leader, often fading away when the charismatic leader dies. I would think all religions fall into that category to some degree, even the established religions Catholics, Islam, etc. start out that way. So the only thing different is the 'new' part. Well, when do LDS lose their 'new' status, after 100 years, 200 years? I would think that if the religion didn't die off when the founder died, then it shouldn't be called a cult. I think a lot of people use that term without knowing what it means.

To me, justice means, in part, God will not change the rules in the middle of the game, so to speak. So it provides a sense of stability. Maybe this is a woman thing, but I like that sense of security and stability. The other thing is that I think a lot of people in this world are successful by sweet talking. Whenever you go out to buy something or even hearing advertisements people fluff everything to sound better than it is. It is comforting to me to know that God is just, He can't be persuaded or impressed. All those people that are used to getting what they want by telling people what they want to hear and stroking their ego are going to have a rude awakening in the next life. In other words, even if you hired Kardashian, it wouldn't help. ... unlike the justice we see here.