Seminarysnoozer

And you have to clarify whether you are talking about this existence or the next because they are way different situations. Now is our time of probation. During the probationary period evil exists in the form of corruption all around us, in the elements themselves but also by way of the casting down of Satan to have power through the elements. This will be for a short period of time we call probation. Someone who embraces evil during probation can become intrinsically evil but will eventually have to bow his knee to Christ and rid self of the evil embrassed during their time in spirit prison either through repentence or suffering. We were not talking about this time, we were talking about having an "eternal conflict" with evil even after the probationary period is over and after spirit prison is over for those that have to go through that. If evil is as ubiquitous and universal as you are trying to suggest, it is always there and always present then why did Adam and Eve have to eat of the tree to be exposed to it? It would have been there already. Why would we have to be mortal to see both good and evil if evil was everywhere all the time? We came from a place without evil and will return to live with our Heavenly Father in similar conditions if we obey. The power of the atonement is not only to redeem but also to enable. Enable what? To overcome all as Christ did for us. This is the difference between putting off the natural man (being redeemed) and then becoming a saint (enabling power of the atonement). This is what is meant in having a change of heart as in Mosiah 5; " 2 And they all cried with one voice, saying: Yea, we believe all the words which thou hast spoken unto us; and also, we know of their surety and truth, because of the Spirit of the Lord Omnipotent, which has wrought a mighty change in us, or in our hearts, that we have no more disposition to do evil, but to do good continually." If there is no more disposition to do evil but to do good continually then where is this "eternal conflict" you talk about?

I don't believe there is any evil in the Celestial Kingdom. That I have already made clear. I think your view of "conflict" is different than mine. In this life we are dual beings, one of the physical which is corrupt and carnal and the other nature which is of the spirit. In such a way there is internal conflict. We are mortals for a short period of time. Upon resurrection we no longer have to contend with the corrupt body, it will be purified and perfected and glorified. That means it will not present any conflict with our spirits. It will be in union 100% with our spirits, meaning no conflict. So, as to that kind of conflict, it will be over. Then there is external conflict that is presented by the forces of evil that surround us, Satan and his followers and even the world itself. That also will be overcome in the end and not be present in the Celestial Kingdom in any way. Talmage said; "The Celestial Glory—There are some who have striven to obey all the divine commandments, who have accepted the testimony of Christ, obeyed ‘the laws and ordinances of the Gospel,’ and received the Holy Spirit; these are they who have overcome evil by godly works and who are therefore entitled to the highest glory; … they possess celestial bodies, ‘whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical’; they are admitted to the glorified company, crowned with exaltation in the celestial kingdom." Posessing "celestial bodies" means no conflict, evil has been overcome. A celestial body does not waver in indecision, it does not contain uncertainty or misdirection or misconception. It can see all and see all truth to be nor more influenced in any way by darkness. Or current body and situation is very much unlike that which makes it hard to comprehend. Evil has to be invited in when not part of self. In this life we are born into corrupt bodies and once accountable we can make choices to accept it or reject it. If we reject it while in this life then it will not be something we have to either accept or reject in the next life. Now is the time to accept it or reject it. One will not have another chance after the final judgement to make that choice again. I suppose you do not believe in a "final" judgement. You must think that the judgement is just one more step in series of judgements. Is it final or not? I wonder if you really think the judgement is not final and that is what allows you to think that a person would still face the test after the test is done. Throughout this life we face tests of all kinds. Any example you use of a case where a person has taken a step forward but still faces challenges, such as your example of an engineering student is true for most situations in mortality because we face the issue of corruption in our brain and in body, it is a constant failing system. This is not the case after resurrection. Your examples would not apply to one who is perfected and receives a perfected body that does not corrupt, it does not forget, it does not waver in its choice or direction, it is not influenced by indecision or uncertainty or forgetfulness. The closest example of that type of mindset we have is Christ. Christ will be triumphant over all evil, He will vanquish His foes forever to never have to contend with them again in any personal way. Yes, He will likely be involved in helping others with their conflict but He will have overcome evil at the end of this world just like everyone else who enters the Celestial Kingdom as Talmage so stated.

I guess we just disagree about there being "loose lions" around after we are in a Kingdom of Glory. I have never been taught such doctrine nor can see it anywhere in my reading. We can progress without evil just like we progressed before we knew the difference between good and evil. Gods work and glory is to bring about the eternal life and immortality of man. Those that find their self in the Celestial Kingdom will be doing similar work. They won't have to go back to "kindergarten" so-to-speak but will help others get through kindergarten. Once we pass the first estate test we do not have to take the first estate test again, Once we pass the second estate test we don't have to take the second estate test again. We do not believe in reincarnation that would allow us to take the test over again. We therefore cannot be exposed to corruption of the body that would allow for death again after resurrection. Yes, this part of the test will be done for us and all the blessings that come from it will be eternally ours, even a fullness thereof. We will not Fall again.

We don't like to tempt God. We try to avoid putting ourselves in situations that makes the tasks harder to complete. No I wouldn't bring a picture of a roast turkey to Fast and Testimony meeting. Also, I wouldn't go to a single's bar if I am married. I wouldn't go to a bar if I have a genetic predisposition towards alcholism. I wouldn't go to the bakery on a daily basis if I had type 1 diabetes (i.e. conditions that one is born with or predisposed to). I wouldn't wear revealing clothing to invite temptation. We try to avoid promoting the animalistic desires of the body. Some people call this treating the body like a temple, don't do anything to defile it or make it more carnal than it already is. All actions that are counted towards good also come with having an eye single to the glory of God. If one is doing it with an eye single to the glory of God then one is not thinking about what is in it for me. The body cares about self; self preservation, self fulfilment, immediate pleasures etc. The body does not care about eternal consequences. Separating the things that are fulfilling carnal desires vs having a focus on the glory of God (eternal happiness) is what spiritual discernment is all about. What you are asking is how to have spiritual discernment. It comes by listening to the promptings from the Holy Ghost and acting upon them, over time becoming more and more in tune to those spiritual promptings and therefore paying attention less and less to carnal and corrupt passions. Paul gives a pretty clear picture of the difference between satisfying carnal passions vs following spiritual influences in Gal. 5:19–25.

Again you are mixing up words, now you are equating maintainance and "does nothing" with the word "conflict". You originally stated "eternal conflict", that is what this conversation is about. It is not about maintainance or doing nothing or not being aware. It is upon you to prove that there is some "conflict" God has with evil. Yes, the word conflict can simply mean a disagreement of ideas but that is not how we use the word when talking about evil. There we are using the word as its more common and universal definition which is to contend with, to battle with, to argue etc. The battle will be over for us. Within God's eternal rounds he has many worlds. Within each realm there is a war in heaven, the war is between those that follow the plan of God vs those of a Lucifer. It is not God's battle or anyone else who has passed the first estate test or the second estate test. Then the battle or conflict continues into the second estate after which there is a judgement that ends with the Savior overcoming evil, overcoming Satan. Then there is an end to the conflict for those people so that they can have eternal happiness and joy never to have to contend with evil again. Part of Satan's persuasive argument was this issue that the children of God before the first estate test were not exposed to evil. The argument being if we don't have to be exposed to evil why send people into mortality to have that exposure. His persuasion was countered with those that have faith in a Savior that would pull them out of danger, out from evil, out from corruption. Those that followed Lucifer did not have faith in a Savior. They could not believe that He could actually save them from such a Fall and exposure to evil that we have never experienced before. Only those that had faith that Christ could erase the pains of corruption accepted God's plan, they believed in the plan for happiness. It is Satan's arguement that once exposed to evil one could not erase or stay clean from the exposure. This is a Satanic idea that goes against having faith in Christ that Christ can actually make us white as snow, pure, clean and no long lasting effects from corruption and evil. It is a Satanic idea to believe that Christ cannot overcome evil 100% for all of us.

Its a poor example because Christ wants us to be one with Him. He does not want to be unique, He wants us to be like Him. He is the one thing that we all want to be like. The rest is the world, the variety, the not like Chirst. Christ is one with the Father, He is not unique, He is as the Father. To us He is unique because we are a variety and we are less than perfect.

Knowledge and awareness is not the same thing as contention or tribulation. He is mindful and aware of all evil and tribulation but that does not mean that He is in the "midst" of it. I don't have to contend with a wild lion in a cage but once he is let out then yes, I might have to contend with it. I can still be aware of the lion while he is in the cage. Would the lion fight if let out of the cage, probably yes. Can he fight while in the cage? no. The battle is won some day. God is victorious. Christ actually saves us. He overcomes the world and Satan for us. He doesn't partly save us or just show us the door. He saves us. That is what I believe.

As the world sees, no. Spiritually yes. But we are not talking about spiritually, we are talking about external man, external traits and features, how the world sees. The reason God is no respector of persons is because he does not see the external man but the inner man. From the Hymn O God, the Eternal Father; "When Jesus, the Anointed, Descended from aboveAnd gave himself a ransomTo win our souls with love--With no apparent beauty,That man should him desire--He was the promised Savior,To purify with fire."

I never used the word awareness. That is your word. I don't disagree with that. One can be in the world but not of the world. One can be aware of the world but not make it her own. The trap of carnal passions is that they are never satisfied. For example, the love of fame, money beauty etc is never satisfied, one will always want more and will become an increasingly heavy burden to constantly satisfy those passions. More and more effort is given to the pursuit of those things when they are given into. Controlling them is to limit them in the first place. Jesus counselled this way; "31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." No man can serve two masters. I think you are trying to say that that is possible. The scriptures tell us otherwise as well as Jesus making that distinction. Elder Bednar's talk from conference; "The precise nature of the test of mortality, then, can be summarized in the following question: Will I respond to the inclinations of the natural man, or will I yield to the enticings of the Holy Spirit and put off the natural man and become a saint through the Atonement of Christ the Lord (see Mosiah 3:19)? That is the test. Every appetite, desire, propensity, and impulse of the natural man may be overcome by and through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. We are here on the earth to develop godlike qualities and to bridle all of the passions of the flesh." I don't think I can say it any more clear. This is an either or thing, not both. Look at the words "every" and "all". Every and all appetites of the body may be overcome.

All passions of the body should be controlled. To just have the passion is not sin, to act upona passion that leads away from God is. If I am hungry during a fast I am not sinning. There is the passion of the body presented from which we can act upon, either take it into our soul or keep it separate. Whe Jesus was tempted by Satan, Satan used the passions of the body to persuade him to sin but Christ did not follow those passions. I believe after fasting for 40 days, Jesus body was hungry but He did not give into that passion. The attraction describes the chemical, genetic etc. carnal drive. Acting upon carnality can make it start to be part of the spirits desires and this is where one can deviate from the right path. Taking on carnality is done in part by acting upon carnal drives. David O. McKay; "The choice is given, whether we live in the physical world as animals, or whether we use what earth offers us as a means of living in the spiritual world that will lead us back into the presence of God. This means specifically: Whether we choose selfishness or whether we will deny ourselves for the good of others; Whether we will cherish indulgence of appetite [and] passion, or whether we will develop restraint and self-control. Whether we choose licentiousness or chastity; Whether we will encourage hate or develop love; Whether [we] practice cruelty or kindness; Whether [we] be cynical or sanguine—hopeful; Whether we be traitorous—disloyal to those who love us, to our country, to the Church or to God—or whether we will be loyal; Whether we be deceitful, or honest, our word our bond; Whether [we have] a slanderous or a controlled tongue. Whether a man remains satisfied within what we designate the animal world, satisfied with what the animal world will give him, yielding without effort to the whim of his appetites and passions and slipping farther and farther into the realm of indulgence, or whether, through self-mastery, he rises toward intellectual, moral, and spiritual enjoyments depends upon the kind of choice he makes every day, nay, every hour of his life." That is the difference between having a passion and acting on it.

One of its similarities is in the idea that here we have diversity, variability and inequality, as one star differs from another. Whereas, the glory of the sun is one and the glory of the moon is one.

What "tribulation" is God in the midst of? Please be specific. What exact evil does He personally contend with? How do you interpret this scripture, D&C 76 (talking about those that make it into the Celestial Kingdom); " 59 Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s. 60 And they shall overcome all things. 61 Wherefore, let no man glory in man, but rather let him glory in God, who shall subdue all enemies under his feet. 62 These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever." It doesn't say most or some or majority, it says "all" twice. All things are overcome for those that find their self in the Celestial Kingdom, that is what is meant by having a fullness of joy, there is nothing lacking. If you say there is something to contend with then you are saying there is something not yet achieved but the scripture says "all things are theirs". Past, present, future, all things are theirs. How can I misinterpret that, it is pretty clear. D&C 84; " 37 And he that receiveth me receiveth my Father; 38 And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father’s kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him." James Talmage (Articles of Faith); "The Celestial Glory—There are some who have striven to obey all the divine commandments, who have accepted the testimony of Christ, obeyed ‘the laws and ordinances of the Gospel,’ and received the Holy Spirit; these are they who have overcome evil by godly works and who are therefore entitled to the highest glory; … they possess celestial bodies, ‘whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical’; they are admitted to the glorified company, crowned with exaltation in the celestial kingdom." D&C 88; " 114 And then cometh the battle of the great God; and the devil and his armies shall be cast away into their own place, that they shall not have power over the saints any more at all." D&C 29; "27 And the righteous shall be gathered on my right hand unto eternal life; and the wicked on my left hand will I be ashamed to own before the Father; 28 Wherefore I will say unto them—Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. 29 And now, behold, I say unto you, never at any time have I declared from mine own mouth that they should return, for where I am they cannot come, for they have no power." It is made very clear in the scriptures and our teaching that there is no contention with evil after the final judgement, after the second estate is passed. Those that are thrown into the lake of fire will be tormented forever but not those that are on the right hand of God. If they have no power there, then there is no contention. Once the final judgement is made, the individual is revealed, there is no question who the person is, there is no internal conflict either, unless one believes that God could make a mistake in His final judgement. That doesnt preclude individual growth and progression, just means the train is on a specific track that does not have a chance for becoming derailed or conflicted.

Yes, I agree but you used the words uniqueness and standing out. On the course to Godhood there can be different levels of progression but the path is one and narrow, it does not vary. There is no variable way to traverse the path.

We treat it as a temple so that we might make it a perfect sacrifice, give it up. Maybe we need to go back to animal sacrifice to relearn this issue. We keep our bodies spotless and like a temple so that we make, like Christ, give up everything in this world, including our physical ability and physical self. There is no greater love than one who is willing to die (give up the physical body) for her friend. Yes, this is sound doctrine. In order to keep the body pure requires forsaking its natural drives. A pure body is not a natural body. An umblemished body is not natural - we all get scars and broken bones and blemishes of some kind by living life - both mental and physical blemishes. So, a pure and clean body is not natural to this world. We forsake the natural course of the body to keep it pure. ... we forsake the body. Christ' final act was that, giving up his body. We take upon His body, His flesh and blood with the Sacrament as a reminder of our willingness to forsake the body as well. We don't want our body, we want His body, thus we eat of His flesh and blood, to take it upon ourselves symbolically, as opposed to our own body.

I disagree. Whatever kingdom of glory a person ends up in will fit their own level of desire and capacity. One would find it a "hell" to be in a level too high for their own capacity, like trying to live on the surface of the sun. If I put my 10 year old in Medical School, it would be "hell" for her to sit there and listen to those lectures and not be able to do the things most 10 year olds do in school. A telestial individual would find it to be overwhelming and uncomfortable to be in a Celestial environment even if they had at one time desired to be there. When everything is said and done the Telestial being will be happy in their place. The plan of Salvation is one of happiness, maximizing the happiness for all, even those that find their self in the Telestial Kingdom in the end.

As always, thanks for your response. I happened to be in Salt Lake to visit my sister this week and went to a special meeting they had. I don't want to talk about things I shouldn't but to paraphrase a sepcific thought that was given in one of the talks, by Elder Bednar. He stated that while within the temple there is no distinction in appearance, wealth, education and social standing, that there are no "distinctions" within the experience that is most like the Celestial one. I found it interesting that he said there is no distinction of education as well, the others seemed more obvious. I agree with your statements. The inputs of the body are not a problem, I agree, unless one learns to love them which is the same thing you said - the things that are acquired by the spirit from the physical. If one loves their level of education, if one loves their aptitude for science or language etc and it is from the brain they have these powers and abilities then how is that any different than one who flaunts a well endowed and sexually attractive body. There is no difference. Like you said it is all about how it is used and whether the spirit adopts those drives. Just like money, these blessings from the body can be used for good but if one loves it over the things of the spirit then they are taken off the pathway of humility. If one is prideful about self as if the stewardships given temporarily are actually theirs, as if they have a right to them, to own them then that becomes unrighteousness. I understand there were differences before this life but most differences that we now see are from physical characteristics. The spiritual differences are only slight, I assume, as we all had to pass the first estate, we were all righteous before this life, some more righteous than others, some more valiant than others. I think this is stated by God not being a respector of persons. 2 Nephi 26; " 33 For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile."

Opposing evil doesn't mean necessarily that there is a "conflict". Rest and peace comes after this life, after the second estate test is over. That is the timeframe we are talking about here. Not sure why you want to bounce back into this world's timeframe when we were talking about "eternal conflict" occuring after resurrection. Again, you are bouncing around to different topics. I just had issue with your use of the words "eternal conflict" to describe the life of someone found in the Celestial Kingdom (obviously, after the second estate test is over). John 16; " 33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." Does Christ overcome the world or not? If there is eternal "conflict" then He did not overcome the world, He left some to contend with. I believe in a Savior that overcomes the world and offers true peace and even after the tribulation from the world which continues while we are here, that will not continue eternally as He has overcome the world for us, if we so accept it. All those in the Celestial Kingdom accepted his atonement which was a full price, nothing left over. Isaiah explains after the second coming what will happen; "16 Then judgment shall dwell in the wilderness, and righteousness remain in the fruitful field. 17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever." It says "for ever" there, in case you didnt catch that.

This is the summary for Alma 13; "Men are called as high priests because of their exceeding faith and good works—They are to teach the commandments—Through righteousness they are sanctified and enter into the rest of the Lord—Melchizedek was one of these—Angels are declaring glad tidings throughout the land—They will declare the actual coming of Christ. About 82 B.C." The chapter is about men receiving the priesthood so that they can carry out their callings received before the foundations of the world. It is about them being involved in the preparatory redemptive work otherwise called by Paul as the "ministry of reconciliation". Reconciliation being another word for redemption. 2 Corinthians 5; "17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;" I am not sure why you are throwing in a quote from Joseph Smith about the plurality of Gods, that our Father in Heaven had a Father etc, to support a statement about the preparatory priesthood and preparatory work towards redemption from Christ. I am not following the link. Just because they both use the words of before the foundation of the world doesn't mean they are linked somehow. There were many things that happened before the foundation of the world. Joseph Smith is stating that there were many Gods before the foundation of the world. Alma 13 is talking about the preparatory redemption work which is what the church does and those called to the work in this life, many of which were called before the foundations of this world. Where is the connection between the two? I am not following.

Our teachings seem to disagree with this response. We are told that we can inherit all that the Father has. If one inherits all the Father has then there cannot be separate universes. In fact I think that is what Celestial glory is, the ability to glorify in everyone's achievements. This is why Gods glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. If all "Gods" share all then there is only one "God" and because they all share in each other's glory, our God is the highest, there is none other higher as they are all the highest. They are one, as Christ is one with God and wants us to be one. Separation is the description of the Telestial Kingdom, as one star differs from another.

"Preparatory redemption" refers to the type of work they were called to as in the second verse of that chapter; " 2 And those priests were ordained after the order of his Son, in a manner that thereby the people might know in what manner to look forward to his Son for redemption." Bruce R. McConkie said about this preparatory redemption; "'They could preach redemption; they could foretell its coming; but their work was preparatory only. Redemption itself would come through the ministry of Him of whom they were but types and shadows." Like John the Baptist, the work one is forordained to do within the priesthood is preparatory for the redemption Christ brings.

Thanks for your response. I agree with leaving the discussion open ended and I hope not to detract from that. In a broad sense it comes down to loving things that are carnal vs things that are spiritual, in other words things that turn to dust in the end vs things that are eternal. Where is our heart? That is the main test of this life. I think Elder Bednar's talk "We believe in being Chaste" is a good summary of what we are talking about here. In that talk that was given in conference in April 2013 he explained that we are dual beings, natural man and spiritual man, carnal and spirit being. He said; "The precise nature of the test of mortality, then, can be summarized in the following question: Will I respond to the inclinations of the natural man, or will I yield to the enticings of the Holy Spirit and put off the natural man and become a saint through the Atonement of Christ the Lord (see Mosiah 3:19)? That is the test. Every appetite, desire, propensity, and impulse of the natural man may be overcome by and through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. We are here on the earth to develop godlike qualities and to bridle all of the passions of the flesh." So, the real question that has to be asked, the real line that is crossed is to know what is from the body and what is from the spirit. Maybe this is why I focus on this so much. To me that is the difficulty of this life. How does one know what is the "appetite, desire, propensity and impulse of the natural man"? Could it be that the desire for uniqueness, standing out, popularity, fame etc are natural man desires? Isn't that what Jesus was tempted with when he was asked to throw himself down on the rocks. Speaking of that event (the temptations Jesus faced after 40 days of fasting), Elder David O. McKay, then a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, said, “Nearly every temptation that comes to you and me comes in one of those forms. Classify them, and you will find that under one of those three nearly every given temptation that makes you and me spotted, ever so little maybe, comes to us as (1) a temptation of the appetite; (2) a yielding to the pride and fashion and vanity of those alienated from the things of God; or (3) a gratifying of the passion, or a desire for the riches of the world, or power among men” Conference October 1911 There is a "pride and fashion and vanity of those alienated from the things of God". Maybe this is something us sisters face more than the brothers of the church. That vanity and fashion is to stand out, to be unique (can't wear the same dress as anyone else to the dance) and all pretty much based in appearance. It is the reason for cosmetic surgery, expensive clothing, make up, hair etc. Cosmetics is a $170 billion dollar a year industry, so please do not tell me that the world is not interested in prideful vanity.

Constraint occurs when laws are disobeyed. I wonder if what you are really asking is if a Celestial being could be capricious or whimsical. Is a Celestial being free to do whatever his/her heart desires. Maybe I am wrong. We believe in an unchangeable God, a God that is not whimiscal or capricious. He doesn't waver in His thought purpose or task. He is a God of laws which allow for freedom and liberty. D&C 88; "“And again, verily I say unto you, that which is governed by law is also preserved by law and perfected and sanctified by the same. “That which breaketh a law, and abideth not by law, but seeketh to become a law unto itself, and willeth to abide in sin, and altogether abideth in sin, cannot be sanctified by law, neither by mercy, justice, nor judgment. Therefore, they must remain filthy still.” This is why the saying 'be yourself, do what you like cause God made you that way' is a tool of Satan that ultimately binds and constrains. In commentary, it has been written about these particular verses of scripture as follows: “Every law God has given us is of such a nature that by keeping it, we are preserved, perfected and sanctified. If we keep the word of wisdom, our bodies will be kept pure. If we observe the law of tithing we shall learn to be unselfish and honest. If we pray, we shall hold communion with the holy spirit. If we try to do our duty in everything, we shall come day by day nearer to perfection. On the other hand, those who refuse to be governed by law and are a law unto themselves cannot be sanctified. They are outside the pale of mercy and justice and judgment as well as law and must remain filthy still. It is only when we try to obey God’s laws that we have claim upon His mercy. Justice will take into account in the judgment every honest effort to do the will of God.” (Hyrum M. Smith and Janne M. Sjodahl, Doctrine and Covenants Commentary, Deseret Book Co., 1972, p. 546.) L. Tom Perry; "Thus, the Lord in his wisdom and great affection for us did establish a foundation which is firm, unchangeable, and can be relied upon, on which we can build our lives with positive assurance that the results will be contingent upon our worthiness." In other words, the closer we are to perfection the more unchangeable we become. Those that find their self in the Celestial Kingdom are the most unchangeable beings. Those that love variety and whimsical thought and capriciousness will be found in a Kingdom of variety, as one star differs from another. And that becomes constraining, limiting. To have limitless freedom requires being unchangeable. When one lets go of the iron rod one travels in diverse places which leads to less freedom. One of the requirements to enter the Celestial Kingdom is to endure and not grow weary of doing righteousness. In other words, those are people that will not have a desire to do something different, they are not the people that say 'let me have a break from doing this for a while'. We can't let the desires of the flesh drive the spirit. The flesh wants variety and uniqueness and is whimsical and spontaneous and capricious. Galations 6; "7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not."

I think I agree with most everything you are saying. I don't think we are that far off but a couple phrases. The war in Heaven was over agency. There could only be a war in Heaven over agency if there was indeed an option to have a time without agency. If agency had to be present all the time or it wasn't given for a period of time then there would be no discussion, it would just be. Why wasn't there a war in heaven about having eye balls or not? That was never an option. The war in Heaven was over having agency and to what degree. Agency doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing. We are agents over certain stewardships in this life but not over all things. Who sinned to make the blind man blind, the blind man himself or the parents? Neither. Is being blind perfect? and yet nobody sinned. Does God progress in glory and works? Or is His glory fixed? If He gains something over time then one would have to agree that there was a period of time when He was lacking the the thing that He now has. If you definition of sin is to not have all that one could have then God would fit that description, unless you believe God is stagnant and does no work. His work and His glory is to "bring to pass..." meaning it wasn't there before and now it is. That is His glory to cause something to happen that wasn't there before. That cannot be the description of sin. Perfection is a description of how on track one is to becoming like God, not necessarily a description of having made it. Perfection can describe the journey as well as the destination. Gods "perfect" is to progress eternally. Once a person has reached the stage in which they are progressing eternally then they are made perfect. If there is a limit to ones progression then they are not perfect. It doesn't matter where one is on the path of progression so much as whether the path is eternal or not. Also in D&C it says; "29 Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness. 30 And they who are quickened by a portion of the terrestrial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness. 31 And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness. 32 And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received. 33 For what doth it profit a man if a gift is bestowed upon him, and he receive not the gift? Behold, he rejoices not in that which is given unto him, neither rejoices in him who is the giver of the gift." What we get at the final judgement is what we are "willing" to receive, that is our will. They will receive even a fullness, not a portion. So, what they are willing to receive is the fullness of that Kingdom, not a part. If one makes it into the Celestial Kingdom, what they are willing to receive (even if they haven't gone through all the steps yet, they are still progressing) is the fullness, the whole path of Celestial life. They will not be given a gift that she is not willing to receive. If the person is willing to receive it and their receiving it is dependent on the willingness being a fullness of will, then when will they ever not have that same will? That is an impossibility. If they are only willing to receive a portion then the "fullness" of the gift they receive will not extend that willingness. God knowing what we are willing to receive based in our agency as man during the first and second estate will make a true and correct judgement. He will not make a mistake. The judgement is based in will. The willingness to live to that Kingdoms fullness. God would not make a mistake in that regard and later say, I guess she was not that willing. It has to be there eternally to enter into that respective Kingdom. If there is any lack of capacity to do so then they are put into that respective place, cast out for example, for those who failed the first estate test of will.

Probably but how could I know what another has in their mind, especially in this setting without being face-to-face? Probably because he/she underlined the word repentence as one of the things related to living the gospel. So, I am assuming that means including living the first principles and ordinances of the gospel. The gospel without ordinances is not really the gospel. It is not just a philosophy, it is an ordered and approved way of life, approved through the power and authority of God and not by any other way.

Why do you equate "demand" with result? The word inheritance implies a gift that is not achieved based on the direct result of personal action or desire or level of faith etc. It is a reward for those requirements. In other words, the reward is not something that one does for self. We need a Savior to give us something we couldn't get for ourself. If we are getting something that we could not provide for ourself then it certainly could be something that we could not achieve on our own. If we believe in the result of our efforts is to receive some form of "inheritance" then the reward could be anything from 100% of what God has down to 1% (so-to-speak). If one receives all that God has, from eternity to eternity as likely God received from His Father, then one becomes eternal, without end and becomes the originator of all, all knowing, perfect. Part of repentence is to promise to never do it again. If one is fully repentant and all sins are cleaned, white as snow as is promised and one receives a glorfied Celestial body, one that does not have any propensity for sin, then how could that individual sin? Where would the influence to sin come from? It could not be internal as that soul would have been judged erroneously, God would not do that. If it is not internal then what external force could allow the person to sin? All evil would have been overcome. Or do you think Christ does not overcome the world for us? I see nothing in our teachings, scriptures, writings anywhere that says a soul that finds their self in any kingdom of glory after the final judgement can sin. Please, if you know differently, I am open to change my understanding about that but I see nothing that says a glorifed person of any stature could sin. I think that is what is meant by a degree of glory. What darkness could withstand the light? Only in mortality can darkness exist with light as we are dual beings both body and spirit. In resurrection we become one, never to be separate again.