CrossfitDan
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Posts posted by CrossfitDan
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In saying the following I do not mean to discount pain and frustration related to these issues, however I think there is a contemporary cultural issue at play that causes a lot of the pain and frustration needlessly.
Absolutely true, but only a part of the problem.
In other words, for thousands and thousands of years people lived happy, productive lives without ever having access to doctor (or church) approved sexual education materials.
Sure, people lived without Dr. for many years, their life expectancy was also much lower. Sure people lived without sexual education for many years, but there was also a sexual repression, shaming and a plethora of misconceptions. Beliefs that some sexual activity resulted in insanity, and so forth.
They pretty much just figured it out as they went.
Not sure what that means? So education isn't needed?
I do not buy into the fact that we cannot have a healthy physical relationship with our spouses without being sexually educated...in principle.
"...in principle." Well, that can very well be said with anything, when you qualify it with "in principle."
But when we are raised on movies and television, we develop some pretty messed up ideologies that can cause serious problems in the future.
Oh, the problems were around long before movies and television, this is a gross over simplification. But I agree, its not helped. However, I will tell you I have seen repeatedly in my practice and association families/couples, good, faithful members who do not indulged in the media and would for all intense and purposes have a very healthy relationship. Have very unhealthy and poor sexually lives. This is very common.
Those problems, while real to us, are in many ways not real, but only perception. Those problems, while real to us, are in many ways not real, but only perception.
Perception IS reality. Period.
My personal take is that we could address these issues from two perspectives. 1. Sexually educate to accommodate the cultural perception of a healthy sexual life.
I don't know what this means....
2. Address the messed up psyche imposed upon us by Hollywood, calling it out to be the lie that it is. I tend toward #2 as the healthier of the options.
Telling someone or a group of people, generally is not the "healthy" approach. Its what most members and to a degree the "church" did between 1963- about 1990 or so. You can go back to many of the leaderships writings in the late 60's and 70's dealing with the sexual revolution and all topics related to it. I by no means criticize the leaderships attempt to educate and compare the upsurge of promiscuity. However, it was a very less effective approach. As a result, when we focus on how others are doing it wrong we inadvertently dilute and confuse the message that its bad.
As was pointed out in another related post. Although, the "church" never taught sex is bad its members by focusing on preventing the promiscuity inadvertently communicated a message that sex is bad, should only be done for procreation and most importantly ignored the idea that intimacy is a beautiful and wonderful experience. Focusing on the bad does not teach the good. It only gives more attention to the bad. I assure you, I think it would surprise you. The majority of unhealthy ideas about sex come from messages communicated in the family and at church. NOT Hollywood.
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No, my background is in the physical sciences, not the social sciences. My studies on this topic were/are inspired by several years in a sexless marriage. Over the years, I have had to study to try to understand God's real purposes for sexuality (still learning and unlearning all of the "good boy syndrome" things that I thought the Church was trying to teach me about sexuality). Over the course of that time, I have come across these authors/therapists who have taught me a lot about sex and marriage.
There's a possible avenue for an additional question to explore. Explore whether someone believes that any education about sex in marriage has to come from "the Church", from Christians, or if secular sources are appropriate (within certain limits). If I remember the comment about doing x correctly, it was in reference to some of Dr. Schnarch's ideas -- and Dr. Schnarch is decidedly secular. The first of his books I picked up, I quickly dismissed, because I didn't think I should be learning anything from someone who believes "that" about homosexuality (for example). Had I maintained that aversion to his writings, I think I would have missed out on some valuable teaching (because LDS sexual education materials have nothing that even begins to approach the way Dr. Schnarch approaches those kind of issues).
As painful and frustrating as your experience must have been. You're an example of how we as members must approach our sexual education within the church, as a culture and spiritual perspectives. I meet and work with too many who dismiss, deny, and avoid various sexual interactions because of perceived ideas and misconceptions within the faith. Good for you and again thank you for your insight, very meaningful.
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I went through the survey and left several comments on several questions. A lot of my comments were about how should the person taking the survey define words (I particularly didn't like the use of the word "struggle" in many of the questions). There were also a few questions that I wasn't sure how the answer would have been useful.
Thank you for your feedback! Went through it all. I am very familiar with all the references you sited and the research. I appreciate your perspective. I choose struggle for the very reasons you mentioned in your comments. I feel and believe other surveys or questionnaires actually are too specific and don't allow for a discussion between partners. Based on yours and the many many other reviews there will be some refining. However, in my research and experience I am finding this approach to be very effective and driving the open dialog necessary between couples.
The questionnaire is not so much a matrix of whether or not to marry. But like you mentioned or alluded to in your comments its to help the couple open, honestly explore each others understandings, beliefs and to break from of cultural and our religious taboos, myths and perspectives. I loved your comment about the sex question about how will you respond if x is done. Loved that, yes. That is the idea!
As for the APA not defining Porn as an addition, that is more of an issue and fear that Porn will be classified and treated like substance abuse. But for that matter the DSM 5 really doesn't call anything an "addiction" but rather disorder. Nonetheless, I haven't come a psychiatrist who doesn't believe Porn is addictive. but I digress... It appears you are well read on the topic, do you have a background in therapy?
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Excuse me. To exercise unrighteous dominion one has to actually exercise dominion. Expressing an opinion on a forum is in no way even close to dominion. I did not say it was up to the bishop or a therapist or me. You're putting words into my mouth unfairly. I stand by my opinion that there is a spirit of the law that can be broken even within marriage. Calling that opinion unrighteous dominion is ridiculous. Moreover, all instances of whether or not we are sinning are up to the Lord. That has no bearing on a discussion as to whether behavior is appropriate or not. Of course it's between them and the Lord. Same thing if a couple lies to each other or says mean things or ignore each other. And I would feel perfectly comfortable advising against such behavior whether you call it judgmental or not.
My comments were not intended to single you out, but rather convey a concept and principle in general.
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I don't think it's that black and white. Take, for example, a couple who Vegas marry just so they can be church-legally intimate, and then quickly annul the marriage (albeit anecdotal, I have heard of this happening). Take that to an extreme. Say a couple marries with no intent of every living together or raising a family together, etc. They only marry, once again, for the church-legal physical intimacy. Problematic, right?
Now apply that sort of thinking to a separation. A couple has no intention of growth, no willingness to sacrifice as a marriage requires, no desire to increase their family, etc., etc.... Not to mention they just don't get along. So they separate. But they still find each other physically attractive, and they don't mind movies and eating out together. So they stay married so they can complete their date nights with physical intimacy. I call bogus on that as fitting into the law of chastity. It's an abuse of the sacred.
On the other hand, if a couple is separated but honestly trying to grow together...I'm less strongly opinionated. But only just. I tend to feel that if you refuse to be in a marriage in all senses of the word (living together), then you don't really have the right to treat your marriage as a marriage in all senses of the word (physical intimacy).
You took my statement out of context. The whole sentence is; "ABSOLUTELY appropriate to be intimate during a "separation", if it is a part of a healthy, loving interaction I would suggest as often as both of you enjoy it too."
Physical intimacy can be a crucial, powerful and even healing and uplifting part of marriage. As for the rest of your comments, they are judgmental and even shaming. Even in your "extreme" examples it is neither yours, the bishops nor mine as a therapist to make that judgement, neither is it appropriate and I would even suggest unrighteous dominion to say its braking the law of chastity. Nonetheless, even if it was the case a couple were to marry or even remain married "just for the sex". That is between them and the Lord.
The church has made significant efforts over the last 20 years training the leadership in its priesthood interviews to NOT involve themselves in the details of married couples sexual lives, ie staying out of the bedroom. As a Therapist I offer training to leadership on how to best do this.
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I have a general problem with the above. Lack of peace, or clarity and/or having anxiety is not explicitly linked to poor choices. I also disagree with the extreme p.o.v. that one should NOT marry if they have fear. Fear and anxiety are part of life and will be experienced even by the most faithful, selfless, righteous people. It is not indicative of a problem, but is only one aspect that MAY indicate deeper problems in some cases.
Thanks for the insight, yes, very helpful. I actually believe we might be on the same page.
I agree that "Lack of peace, or clarity and/or having anxiety is not explicitly linked to poor choices." There is however, a real and maybe a bigger problem that I find with pre-married couples and even those who have been married many years is dismissing or not distinguishing valid fears and anxieties verses spiritual and good decisions. I find more often than not many, in the name of "faith" dismiss or push through their fears/anxieties hoping the issues will be resolved.
As a result, a good decision to marry a good or the "right" person eventually soured over time because the fears grew and unresolved anxieties never appropriately dealt with. Ergo the poor choice wasn't the marriage but the unresolved, misplaced faith or fears. It lends to a whole host of emotional, spiritual and even sexual codependences and issues that sometimes don't surface for many years.
Therefore it was my hope to distinquish valid fears/anxieties verse normal stressors, that needed to be resolved PRIOR to marriage with this comment, "Fear is very different; one can be very clear in mind and heart and fear the decision. But if you are not feeling peace and clarity it is a witness that something is not right."
How might you phrase it differently?
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You link appears to be broken.
404 Error - page not foundWe're sorry, but the page you are looking for doesn't exist.Thanks! I don't know what happened. I re-linked it. give it a shot.
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We are getting a legal separation so he can have \"his space\", but he wants to still be a part of my life and still cares and we have two daughters together. So, we are going to try it for a year and see if it works out. And we are not going to date other people. In my eyes that is cheating because we are still married! So does anyone know what the deal is with this?? Since we are still married and want to still date each other can we still sleep together??
ABSOLUTELY appropriate to be intimate during a "separation", if it is a part of a healthy, loving interaction I would suggest as often as both of you enjoy it too. HOWEVER, I am concerned and I would suggest there are some bigger issues going on here that you might want to explore and soul search other than the sexual part. As a therapist, when I hear "separate but involved", a week maybe a month which is too long, but a year? The intimacy, although very important, might be insignificant compared to you needed to understand what you want (as appose to what he wants) and pursuing it.
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Having a thriving, happy, eternal marriage in today’s world seems to be more and more difficult. As a student of gospel doctrines and as a Marriage and Family Therapist I find it my passion and joy to work with couples and guide them on a path to increased success and happiness in marriage.
During my time working with clients and teaching the gospel I developed a questionnaire to help individuals and couples explore their individual readiness and marriages. I would value your insight and feedback on the questionnaire. You can remain anonymous if you would like. Or feel free to post your ideas here to this thread.
Please rate and comment on the questionnaire here.
What are your thoughts on the questionnaire?
Where the question relevant? Helpful? Thought provoking? Dumb?
Would love to know what you believe makes your marriage or future marriage joyous, exciting and profoundly enduring and loving.
My Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/dbmft
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Resources for marriages where one or both partners have ADD/ADHD.
Another book is Gina Pera's Is It You, Me, or Adult ADD?. I generally would not recommend this book to the spouse who has ADHD as it is very much from the non-ADHD partner's perspective. For those married to someone with ADHD, this is your book for understanding and validation - esp if you are at your whit's end.
Delivered from Distraction by Edward Hallowell
I have the book, but couldn't get past the first half of it. Hallowell's writing clearly reflects his ADHD, and I couldn't stand reading it. Too much of an apologetic and patronizing tone for me to take it seriously.
ryanh, great resources. However, I would strongly discourage Gina Pera's book "Is It You, Me, or Adult ADD?. Although, it promotes CBT, a valid form of intervention for ADD. The book has some significant issues, most of them subtle but poisonous nonetheless. This book if fallowed can create a parenting type relationship, condescending toward the ADD spouse and some very unhealthy interactions.
Delivered from Distraction by Edward Hallowell is by far one of the best books for both ADD and spouse.
ryanh, great resources. However, I would strongly discourage Gina Pera's book "Is It You, Me, or Adult ADD?. Although, it promotes CBT, a valid form of intervention for ADD. The book has some significant issues, most of them subtle but poisonous nonetheless. This book if fallowed can create a parenting type relationship, condescending toward the ADD spouse and some very unhealthy interactions.
Delivered from Distraction by Edward Hallowell is by far one of the best books for both ADD and spouse.
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Having a thriving, happy, eternal marriage in today’s world seems to be more and more difficult. As a student of gospel doctrines and as a Marriage and Family Therapist I find it my passion and joy to work with couples and guide them on a path to increased success and happiness in marriage.
During my time working with clients and teaching the gospel I developed a questionnaire to help individuals and couples explore their individual readiness and marriages. I would value your insight and feedback on the questionnaire. You can remain anonymous if you would like. Or feel free to post your ideas here to this thread.
Please rate and comment on the questionnaire here.
What are your thoughts on the questionnaire?
Where the question relevant? Helpful? Thought provoking? Dumb?
Would love to know what you believe makes your marriage or future marriage joyous, exciting and profoundly enduring and loving.
My Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/dbmft
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“Injury rates with CrossFit training are similar to that reported in the literature for sports such as Olympic weight-lifting, power-lifting and gymnastics and lower than competitive contact sports such as rugby union and rugby league,” the researchers reported.
And that rate is positively puny compared to sports like soccer, skiing, and football. Even running may be more dangerous. A 2010 study followed recreational runners for eight weeks as they trained for a 4-mile race. 30.1 injuries were reported for every 1,000 hours of running.\"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rosspomeroy/2014/04/03/crossfit-isnt-killing-us/
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This real science Crossfit study shows that although Crossfit has benefit for improving body composition and fitness it comes with the very real price of attrition. 9 out of 54 participants were unable to complete the 10 week study due to injury. That is 16% of participants in just over two months. This is substantial injury risk. These injuries were sufficient to make the people leave the study... they were not mere scrapes and bruises. Although no doubt plenty of that happened as well. Injury prevalence is much lower in most sports and way lower in most fitness activities. Crossfit is more of an extreme sport than a health-supporting pass-time.
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A bold claim that many a fitness professionals will stand behind. I have everything to gain from people engaging in Crossfit; because when they get injured they come to people like me. My position is not that of a lone voice in the wilderness, nor is it because I am worried in the least about Crossfit taking away clientele... it is a different niche and that is fine. The primary reason Crossfit gets called out by people like me is because we hate to see people get hurt.
Yah, there are a hand full of people in your profession continuing to misinform, unintentionally or not by quoting from ridiculous studies like the one you linked above and below.
Edit: The link to the study above is only the abstract... as such it does not show the injury details found in the meat of the study. You can read more about Crossfit and the study here:
Thought you'd find this interesting. The "real science" that you sited and you thought I was ridiculous in refuting is now under significant legal problems. The author of the "scientific" study has admitted falsifying the data. "data was not only misleading, but was literally fabricated." Enjoy:
CrossFit affiliate lawsuit against Steven Devor, Michael Smith, and NSCA - CrossFit Discussion Board
Lawsuit:
Filed complaint against Steven Devor, Michael Smith, and the NSCA
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The article is actually pretty good. The Physical Therapist who was quoted saying this was horrible and can result in loosing her baby was a horrible and misinformed comment. Consult with your doctor and hit it hard.
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Quin,
That honestly doesn't make any sense. Yes, we have programming for military, but by no means is that the same programming for the pregnant mother or young woman starting off in the CF gym. We have Yoga instructors who are also CF trainers and do just as well if not better then most in the gym.
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Hummm.... First, I see how my comment about the copy and past could have been taken as you referred. No ill will intended nor was it a tactic.
I respect and even honor your profession. I have worked with, trained with and been educated by some of the best in your field. I am not discounting your experience or qualifications. No disrespect intended. I am suggesting though the comments are uniformed.
I am also familiar with the study's you sited. Be very careful to site conclusions from a random blogs interpretations of the actual study. In fact its an interesting study that's vaguely resembles science. At best some loosely interjected, uncorrelated statistics. The study DOESN'T actually say 16% were injured. It doesn't even distinguish those who dropped out, verses who MIGHT have been injured. Most importantly it doesn't even identify if those who might have been injured if they had ANY preexisting conditions. In addition, the populations size is low and selection sample is narrow.
Not very scientific and not at all conclusive. But back to the point. To use injury as a CON or reason not to CF is disingenuous and uninformed and just nonsense. I have discussed this topic with some of the best physical therapist and personal trainers in the field, definitely as qualified and more so then yourself. I kinda thrive on the subject.... I mean, I'm not 18 anymore I am not going to haphazardly jump into this and destroy my body.
Most are very supportive of CF. But some like yourself have quoted this recent "study" and sited others and throw out this idea that clinics are being swamped with rehabilitating CF injuries. But the actual data??? There is none! In fact, when compared to other activities CF falls so far down on the list of injury prone athletics that its just ridiculous to say one should consider the HIGH potential of injury.
That brings me to my final point. Its an illogical and again disingenuous to make injury potential as a factor of whether or not to do something. It just doesn't make sense. Oh, no son, do you realize how dangerous and injury prone soccer is... its not wise to do it.
According to a 2008 data biking is the MOST injury prone activity! But you never here professionals as yourself saying and throwing out CONs and warnings on that activity as though it should be avoided.
The Top Ten: Injury-Prone Summer Sports | Points Sports Health
But again, even if CF was as injury prone as you allude. The only why for people to do it right/better or correctly is to practice and train.
Now, I don't doubt there are goof balls out there who run their gym as slop. But to say that is the mantra? I train with HQ staff and the best in the program, they are the ones who train the gym owners. There are some area's I have concerns with but this is so far from Crossfit philosophy its laughable, unexceptionable and unfortunate all in the same.
As in all professions your going to have the zealots and fanatics who just simply are dangerous. They eventually get weeded out. As I mentioned in my original post. Its about finding the right BOX, trainer, coach. Are all CF gyms as precise, technique driven and inclusive as Norcal Crossfit. I am sure they are not. But most are. The whole philosophy of CF is to sift through the crap, find and utilize the best.
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Like any sport, training and exercising Program. The key is to find the right coach and properly understand the concepts.
With all due respect, and its not my intent to argue, debate or contradict. But SpiritDragon comments were way off and uninformed. As my user name suggests I have some affiliation and very firm understanding of the Crossfit program. However, I am also a Marriage and Family Therapist, and Financial Analyst. I am very impressed with Crossfit but am not a fanatic of the program. I see its flaws and its improves each year.
However, SpiritDragon's comments are interesting and very incorrect and almost sounds like it was a random copy and paste from the internet:
"- Extremely high injury rate (which = lack of success and long-term set-backs)
- Emphasis on high-intensity as opposed to proper form = increased risk of injury
- Use of advanced exercises with steep learning curves is simply thrust upon new recruits again leading to injury.
- CF is quite expensive compared to other exercise classes/ boot-camps / it is closer to the expense of personal training, but executed much more poorly"
I have been training and Coaching for over 4 years with ages from 4 to 75, with the largest Crossfit gym in the world. Crossfit - NorCal CrossFit Home Page
Of the the 1000's who have walked through our doors over the years. I can count on one hand the injuries that a client experienced as a result of Crossfit training and this is usually the result of a preexisting condition. I have seen more injuries during one season of my sons soccer team.
"Emphasis on high-intensity as opposed to proper form = increased risk of injury". Now that is just uninformed. I was in Utah for a while training with an actual Olympic lifter and there is a certain frustration from the professional Olympic lifters, in which they feel Crossfitters are misusing the lifts. But he emphasized how impressed he was of our technique and ability to keep proper form during high repetitions. The idea of Crossfitter misusing the movement has also been dispelled as some of the best Olympian's in USA, Russia, China, Mexico have join and begun to train and teach with Crossfitters.
"CF is quite expensive compared to other exercise classes/ boot-camps / it is closer to the expense of personal training, but executed much more poorly". Again, I mean no insult and no personal attack when I say this comment is vastly incorrect and very uninformed.
We train many "personal trainers" who then go back to their private gyms and share with their clients in their boot camps and personal training sessions the things we have taught them. Are there Personal trainer who dislike Crossfit? YES! For their various reasons; infringing on their business, contrary to their narrow view of training, and some feel like its just another fad. But to say its more expensive and executed much more poorly? That is a bold claim. I have observed paid for and trained with personal trainers who on the low end charge 4-6 times the average crossfit fee and who have less resources and insight into proper training. The probability of getting a great training at a better price is much higher with Crossfit.
The point. I don't know if Crossfit is for EVERYONE, but it is adaptable for most everyone. My friend is a P90x coach, we refer clients to each other all the time. Unfortunately to many get intimidated by Crossfits intensity and fear its going to be too hard. That is completely against CF philosophy. CF is customizable and adapted to each individual.
If any of you have specific question about the training I am happy to help.
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It is my suspicion that this may be a misinterpretation of D&C 131:1-4
"In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; and in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; and if he does not, he cannot obtain it. He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase."
This is traditionally interpreted as meaning that the celestial kingdom has "three heavens or degrees". I suspect that it simply means that the heavenly (or, in other words, celestial) realms consist of three large divisions, those which we generally call "celestial", "terrestrial", and "telestial". In this interpretation, we are told that to enter into the highest "heaven or degree" of the "celestial glory" -- aka the celestial kingdom -- a man must be sealed to a woman.
Of course, I might be wrong. I don't preach this in Church. But it sure seems like a little bit of overinterpretation of something that might have a much simpler explanation, sort of a less clearcut version of the old "Jesus was born on April 6" canard based solely on a formalistic introduction to Section 20.
This is a great insight. From my understanding you are very correct in that it is a misreading of the D&C. Our institute Director in our area teaches this and as a member of the Stake Pres. he will always correct the teaching when discussed in the wards.
Also, read this: Is the Celestial Kingdom Divided into Three Subdegrees? By Common Consent, a Mormon Blog
Doctrines on Preparing and Thriving in Marriage
in Marriage and Relationship Advice
Posted
May I also add, that your comments fail to consider a large portion of people who have experienced abuse, especially sexual abuse as children. Abuse changes the sexual experience in ways, unless you have worked with abuse victims, in ways you could begin to understand. I have never heard of, studied or worked with clients who in these cases just "figured it out". In fact, in these situations, its often the husband I end up having to work with in depth because he has this idea that if he just tries hard enough, has enough faith they will just figure it out. That then create a lot of other problems. Additionally, Women who biologically have issues with orgasms or generally feeling little or no pleasure during intimacy which is very common. Over 40% of women have NEVER orgasm! Also men although less frequently, who have issues biologically too.
Its comments like yours that over simplify the issue and unintentionally communicate the wrong messaged.