Spartan117

There was a talk or something (heavy on the or something) that talked about spiritual envy, or something along those lines. Not envy in a wicked way, envy in admiring differences in other faiths that you find you would want included in your own church. One example was from a Catholic Priest who talked about eternal marriage and how loving and beautiful that concept was to him. For me, I investigated the Catholic Church for several months before investigating the LDS Church. I had no religious upbringing and didn't know much about Christianity. My absolute favorite thing I envy about the Catholic Church and miss was the services held during the week. They were always much smaller, the crowd a bit older, but I enjoyed and got more out of the weekday services than Sunday services. A few times I remember the Priest concluding mass and then walking down to the pews and (what I would now call bearing his testimony) just talking about and expressing how much God really loved each and everyone of us. I will never forget those instances where he felt impressed to come down to the small group of us and just share that special message he had just for us.

If I were to ask this question I would include a date of 1900ish as well, because the persecution and relocating all over the country had settled down a bit by then. That makes it a different question, a GA leaving over a crisis of faith in a stable church environment as opposed to leaving because of an extermination order as the church goes rolling along the country.

Receiving the priesthood is handled on a personal basis for everyone. There is no rule that says "if individual did "X" then they have to wait for "Y" ordinances." I converted 18 months ago. Was ordained a priest within the first few weeks, limited use recommend for baptisms after that. Then I became kind of flaky. It had nothing to do with belief, I just had a hard time finding my place in my original ward. I didn't feel like I belonged. I was going to church once a month, maybe. Then I moved, new ward, new bishop, bishop took a personal interest in getting me back to where I needed to be. After a few weeks I was attending church weekly, meeting with the missionaries often, then I started getting opportunities in the ward to participate, to belong. Just things like teaching EQ, giving my first sacrament meeting talk. I was ordained an elder right around my 6 month mark after maybe 2 months of mentoring from my new bishop. No waiting period, I just had to make the effort and be proactive about my progression in the church. Got my endowment right at 1 year, got my first calling as a gospel doctrine teacher the day after my endowment, temple marriage 2 months ago, haven't looked back. I didn't have a divorce but I had a few things I had to work through with my new bishop and I did. My father-in-law is seventy and I've had exhaustive talks with him about church guidelines and rules, I love picking his brain and hearing his stories. I asked him specifically if a divorce would hold up someone progressing and he said generally, no. If there are issues like abuse then obviously yes. But a standard issue divorce with no issues or legal complications aren't a problem as far as church rules. But it's all up to the individual. He has to be really converted, he has to be proactive about his progression and ordinances. Has he sat down with your bishop and told him his story, his past, and asked specifically about making a game plan for him? That's exactly what I did when I moved. I made an appointment to meet my new bishop, told him exactly where I was at, that I had a few things to work through. We set up a plan, set dates, and focused on one thing at a time. I met with my bishop often, I took the initiative. My bishop was just as motivated as I was so that helped. I would recommend your boyfriend do exactly the same thing, meet with your bishop (ask him if you can sit in on his visit if you want, let him know you support him and you're there for him) and lay it all out and make a plan on where he is going. As far as your relationship and helping him along, be brutally honest and tell him that you see what he can become but if he doesn't make those things happen then the relationship will end. Hopefully he's really "converted" and will do the work. Sorry for rambling, hope some of this helps :)

If my Grandparents were still around, I would want them to be just like your Grandpa. Best FHE you'd ever have.

I get to get mine from the same place where I rented my pants.

You can add the Higgs boson particle to that list, the last remaining particle yet to be discovered in the standard model. That has also been determined by the Large Hadron Collider to be non-existent with a probability rate of 95%. Yet has become the standard and hinge point on which multiple models in physics have been designed and are about tobe thrown out. Here is one response that has really put it in perspective ... So you can lump the standard model of particle physics into your group of bigfoot, the Locheness Monster, alien abductions and any other crack pot conspiracy theories you're trying to make the Book of Abraham guilty by association by . Hypocritical double standard science, mixed with unfounded superstition with a dash of strawman and guilty by associate fallacies and you guys finally figured it out. Congratulations. There's my $5 bucks. I'll bill you for the rest.

They reject every single believe and doctrine we have. Our church sin't Christian, our baptisms aren't Christian and therefor not "valid" because we don't embrace the Trinity. Now, when you say "we" are you talking about the church or the members on the forum"

If I may be sold bold to answer your question with a question, what answer would satisfy you that your belief about this verse is a context oversight and is 100% in harmony with LDS teachings and doctrine?

Very true, I hadn't thought about it. I was referring to a hierarchal order. It is said in the scriptures that God the Father is God to Jesus Christ. I've tried to wrap my head around what that relationship must be life. Reminds me of why I used to drink.

Thank you. I've been put on a leave of absence fom the welcoming party until I complete my recert training. This will definitely effett my GPA

I can definitely see parallels there. What I have been taught, and my own personal belief and understanding is that Moses is a "god" right now. Exulted. At no point would we EVER worship Moses. Same thing with most of the prophets who have passed on, I would imagine. My understanding is that God the Father is X amount of ... degrees I think might be the right word ... above us. For ever grace we move to, He is glorified, our glory adds to his. That continues until we reach whatever "level" of exultation he do. But at no point will we EVER be on the "level" as our Heavenly Father. The farther we grow, the glory be His forever. I don't see the LDS doctrine of exultation meaning there would be a point one day where I should shake hands with God instead of falling down to kiss his sandal. I guess it has to do with context and definition?

I usually am the first one to jump on the frontlines around here. I'm still very new and trying to fix that. I apologize for dismissing your questions without giving you the benefit of the doubt, AND for assuming your intentions.

Understood.

Not splitting hairs, and you are 100% right. In another instance there were 4 men who were indicted but who fled and never stood trial. I did not make myself clear. Apologies.

Block as in I won't see your stuff, you won't see mine. I have no authority on this forum whatsoever and can not effect your account. I expect it will be that way for quite some ever too. But you have several posts now overflowing with questions now into the double digits that are run-of-the-mill anti questions that have been answered over and over. I don't know why you haven't gone over your points one at a time instead of spilling them out on the desk. I love answering question so if I'VE the one who has misread into this then I sincerely do apologize. I'm still trying to figure out the proper way to field and answer legit questions as opposed to troll question. Your posts are all over the place. And you respond with even more questions, again just spilled out. It's hard to keep up, especially when I get down trying to answer your fist 10 questions and in the mean time 3 more posts like it have popped up is all.

Which they were happy to do once they coerced him to turn himself in on charges of vandalism or destroying private property, or something along those lines. He got there, was sworn protection from the Gov who turned the charges from destruction of property to treason. Then the governor left town. They were murdered. No one ever stood trial for it.

We can become exalted, you know in your thorough study of the scriptures there are instances where people have worshiped angels? And the angels are offended? But at the time, and to us now, they have attributes of God, gods themselve yes, God our Eternal Father, no and never. unequevically homosexual is a political talking point to get people off the hook so they aren't labeled as gay bashing. From tests of thousands of people to the former head of the human genome project who says, and I quote ... Dr. Collins succinctly reviewed the research on homosexuality and offers the following: Lineage more than skin color was the source of that, but during the political and social standards of the early to mid 1900's, I personally think that if the church had lead the charge for civil rights it would have brought it down. People were still racists, learning line upon line, precept upon precept. There would have been outrage by a lot of members who hadn't learned yet that priesthood is priesthood, that a black person was performing ordinances. It sucks. But once civil rights came into the, the church could lift that ban, shed more light on the subject and not targeted for it. In your studies, you remember how exclusive the priesthood was back in the day? And how the Gospel of Jesus Christ was NOT to be preached to the gentiles, only to the Jews? Well on the Lord' time, that changed. No one has a problem with that, but with the modern priesthood ban? Why? How many types of drinks did they have back then? Gatorade? Pepsi? Red Bull? That were kept freezing cold in their refrigerators? Do not confuse the syntax of 180 year old hand written documents with definitive gaps in LDS theology. The church makes some bold claims for sure. But don't glaze over doctrine, picking out verses that are derogatory against the church or one of it's presidents, spilled out like nothing has a context and expect to come up with a smokin gun. Answering questions is fine, but it seems like you're reading from literature that has been designed to try and blow holes in the church and it's teachings. After a while it' answering the same old arguments new members parrot back when they first find it, and it gets old real quick. You seem sincere, but if your next post has page 3 of the "questions you need to ask Mormons" I'm reporting you and blocking you. Hope I was able to help. You have a fine day.

They summoned him to stand trial for the destruction of the press, absolutely correct. Once he and Hyrum got there, peacefully turning themselves in, they changed the charges to treason. The governor gave his word that no harm would come to the Smith's. @ Martyrdom of Joseph and Hyrum Smith

Best news of the day. Congratulations

Heavenly Father will always be our Heavenly Father. No matter how far we progress. The reference by PC is incredibly accurate to the point we are trying to get across. Just like in earth life, we are children at first, but grow to be fathers. That doesn't mean our father stops being our father, it means we progress to being Fathers ourselves. So on and so forth. Sidenote - I am unfamiliar with the Prosperity Gospel Fad if it won't hijack this thread, penny for your thoughts, PC?

Thank you for mentioning that

I think context seems to be the issue here. A quote was brought up by the OP that, so far, has been interpreted by those here to be out of context. As a response, other quotes were made (out of context as well) to prove the point, not refute the claim. Prophetic commentary is different than scripture, sure. But it isn't some idea from a suggestion box either. Again, I see this context issue as well with Isiah. Following Isiah 46:9 we can connect the dots to Jesus Christ not being God (or a God) as well. I think everyone here can agree that assumption is wrong. So if Christ is our Savior, and we worship him as God, and it says in the scriptures that God the Father IS God to Jesus Christ, you're interpretation of Isiah 46:9 is thoughtful and insight, but has a very specific context that I think is being lost when you compare it to stuff out of the JD. Which is not scripture anyway. There is a long deep explanation that goes into the process of deification as outline in LDS theology that would explain this in great detail. Someone should do that

Joseph Smith said that 'a prophet, is only a prophet, when he's a prophet." General Authorities are prophets, seers, and revelators. They are also regular people. They can receive revelation for something. And another Apostle can receive revelation as well for the same something. That does not mean they received the same revelation or information. Example ... You have an apostle who makes a statement about something doctrinal, but what he says isn't in the scriptures as he said it. You have another apostle who says something completely opposite of what the other one said, that also is not outlined in the scriptures. Are they liars? Is the church a fraud? Not even close. Based on their own knowledge, their own experiences, their own personal interpretation of scriptures, you get a knowledgeable opinion on the matter. When you mix all those things in with revelation he received as an apostle, a prophet a seer, very often they connect the dots with their own understanding of things and come out with an opinion on the matter again, but it's not revelation. At it's best, it's prophetic commentary. The process for revelation to the prophet that is to be canonized and added to the standard works is waaay different. Just because we haven't added sections to D&C in a bit doesn't mean revelation has stopped. FAR from it. It means that the Lord has revealed all we need to have and know, we have holy writings, but for right now, we have sufficient for our needs. The gold plates were sealed. There is more to come. There are books of scripture talked about all through out the standard works that aren't available right now. They will be. But let me ask you this, have you read the quad cover to cover and understand everything in there? How many people do you think really have? We aren't at a place where we need new scripture, we're at a place where we need to learn all of the light and knowledge that has been revealed to us. Joseph and Hyrum Smith were brutally murdered while locked up in jail on false charges. IN JAIL, where a mob of 200 men ended the Prophet's mortal probation, his brothers as well. They were unjustly and savagely murdered and their families left without a patriarch, and the church left without a leader for a time. They sealed their testimony with their blood to bring us the Book of Mormon, D&C, and the Pearl of Great Price. This happened kinda recently on a Biblical timeline. There are deathmasks of the actual faces of the Smith brothers you can see. You can go to their graves, you can go to the exact spot of the first vision and you can go to where those men were murdered. We don't fully know and understand the revelation we have (as a whole church, IMHO) and we are probably a little ways out from getting new scripture. And I think how much time depends entirely on us.

Congratulations!! I had my endowment in May, here are a few things that I was told that made a world of difference ... - First, this is YOUR endowment, it's YOUR day. You're going to have a special name tag on that lets everyone know it's your first time. The temple workers will be knocking each other over to greet you and welcome you, see how you're doing, make sure you aren't lost etc. You'll be a star for a day. - You absolutely need to bring an escort. One who you are close to and won't mind feeling a little nervous in front of. The temple will (should) provide a temple worker to guide you along but you need a buddy. They make sure the people there for their own endowment are taken care from beginning to end. They will make sure you sit next to your escort as well. So bring one. - The night before my endowment my fiancée (who had been endowed years earlier) and her Dad (who was my escort) sat down and went over the logistics of the endowment. By logistics I mean going over and explaining the different parts, where you'll go, who will be there, where you'll go next, what goes on there etc. It is perfectly okay for someone to do that with you. You can explain a great deal about the endowment ceremony itself without it being inappropriate. Have them draw out a floor plan of which rooms you go into and for how long and what for and in what order etc. That helped me a lot. Especially because I went through Salt Lake. That place is huge. But there are temple workers every 10 feet waiting to help you or guide you. - As you'll learn, there are some things that don't get talked about outside the temple. It isn't about "secrecy" either. I could be in the car with my wife driving down the highway, by ourselves, windows up, doors locked, seatbelts on, no one in the world but us, and we wouldn't talk about what goes on in the temple. This is where the "sacred" aspect comes in. If it is secret, then you don't talk about it around people who aren't endowed, but chat away when it's just members of the "cool kids club" who have already gone through. If that's the case, then they don't it. The temple is open to the public for an open house visit to anyone, immediately after it's construction and before it's dedicated. At that point it's a pretty building. Once it's dedicated, it is consecrated ground. **sidenote ... Why are certain ordinances done in the temple and not at a ward? Where it's done has everything to do with it. Here's the thing (and this is sooo hypothetical because it just wouldn't happen) say there was an ordinance done in the temple during the open house. It is not valid whatsoever. Even though it was "in the temple" it was still "in the world." Once it is dedicated, then there is authority and meaning behind the ordinances. Somethings can not be done "in the world" and the first thing you'll notice once you get inside is that the world has no place there. You won't hear people talking, cars driving by, airplanes flying. You will feel like you really are out off "the world" and in many senses, you are** - The endowment is old. Thousands of years old. As you're going through you'll realize this. It can seem weird or strange at times. Personally, I never felt at any moment during my endowment that what was going on was out of place. That's just me. Just remember this was done thousands or years ago. It's not mainstream. - Before going through I read the book by Boyd K. Packer 'The Holy Temple' which is the source for the pamphlet. It does not go over the endowment step by step, doesn't tell you any special meaning behind things that are symbolic. It explains why we have temples to begin with, and gives a great history of them and how they came to be what they are today. Temples in ancient times were a little different than ones today. Even the first temple built in this dispensation in Kirtland is different than all the temples that followed. It had a different purpose, and a completely different design to it than any other temple. Certain temples had certain functions, the book explains all that. It's really interesting if you're into the church nerd stuff. I highly recommend reading it. You'll have a whole new understanding of the temple if you do. - Lastly, 98.5% of what you're going to learn in the temple is in the scriptures. You'll get to the celestial room and be like "really? That's it?" I wasn't disappointed at all, but there really is no great big meaning of life secret you're told that isn't in the scriptures. I was CONVINCED that I would build a lightsabre during my endowment. The parallels between LDS and Star Wars are ju... nevermind that. Read the Pearl of Great Price once before you go through. It will be a good refresher. I'm excited for you. Don't be nervous, except for the part with the chicken at the end there's nothing that should freak you out.<JK> Good luck, have fun, bring a buddy, and learn all you can. Then go back. If you want, after you've left the celestial room go exploring. You have that newbie nametag on you, that give you full diplomatic immunity. You could walk into the temple president's office and everyone will just feel bad that you got lost. I tried a few times to get to the door of the Holy of Holies (as I said, I went through Salt Lake) but there were too many temple workers who were "sorry" I was lost and "loved" to bring me back to where I should be. I wouldn't have gone in (not that I have a key anyway. Not anymore) but I'd love to stand outside that door one day. For the record I think the idea of sneaking into that room is wholly offensive. But standing outside it I'm okay with. It's YOUR endowment, YOU make the covenants, and YOU'LL do great. Read the Holy Temple book, read the Pearl of Great Price, and you'll be great. Then come back here and tell us how it went

All I did was take your answer and turn it into a TL;DR one