Hala401
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Posts posted by Hala401
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Is something from a student manual considered a church stance?
So judging by the tenor of this discussion so far, there is not a lot of dogma attached to the issue? How refreshing.
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I'm wondering what the official LDS stance is on the issue. For me it is one of those things that I think we lack the evidence to prove evolution, but if it happened, someone managed it and I think that God is the one who would.
There is a lot of emotion around the issue, and I am not sure why people waste the energy.
Hala
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We teach others to take the good they have found in their religions and bring it with them, and add it to the higher truths found in the fullness of the gospel. If you are ready to embrace the gospel, make and keep covenants, and continue growing in spiritual experiences, then you are ready.
I am ready. The wait has been long, but as it has produced acceptance and I can see the truth in the need for the wait. Some of the things that made me feel creepy, I now understand in their proper context.
Err, correction. "I" think I am ready, but need to start thinking about what it means to wait for the Prophet to say I am ready. This is a hard one; just feels strange, but I must do it or nothing makes any sense.
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If you like Handel's Messiah Hala you will like this piece of music:
I love it when Katherine Jenkins or Jenny Phillips does those songs.
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One statistic I heard in the last few months on a talk radio program was about 75 percent of Christians had chastity behavior that was no different than non-believers.
I can see why some Christians drove you from your previous beliefs. There are far too many who consider themselves a follower of Christ but do it as merely a label only.
I know I still have work to do on loving my neighbor as myself. If we have no charity we truly are nothing.
I'm going to use my very lame excuse, probably for the last time; I'm not an LDS member yet, so I do not have to behave yet.
So, before Islam, I was foursquare, AG, Baptist... I was just searching for something that didn't feel creepy, and correctly interpreted scripture. I wanted to be with people who read the Bible, prayed, and believed.
Let's start with Tongues. It is pretty easy to devine the real purpose of it from just reading the Bible, and the LDS got it. However, lots of the other folk felt that if you did not do goofy things with tongues then you were a second class citizen. I could write pages on the subject, but I think the LDS correctly devined the purpose and correct use.
Then when we look at what Jesus said; love God, love your neighbor. Pretty plain, I think. Then you have these guys going of on endless and very frightening to me rants about how "all Muslims are going to Hell", (TV Evangelist, John Hagee), who advocate the mistreatment of Gays and Lesbians, who parade around in big cars and rich clothing and all sorts of things. For me, the last straw was the Atonement, though I did not call it that at the time. I say that even the most serious and icky sin, if a person repents and seeks forgiveness from God through Jesus Christ, it is all over, your sins are far from you. My old church did not see it that way.
By the time they threw me out, I was already on the way to the door.
I have to say that the LDS have astonished me so much that sometimes I just sit and shake my head and wonder if I am still on Earth. I am not going into my failing, because I know of people with the same failing that are temple members of the church. I don't know if anyone can fully appreciate how grateful and touched I am about how mercifully I feel I am treated.
Please don't make assumptions about what my sin was, because in the years since, I found that the way I thought was just as distasteful to God as what got me thrown out. It has been a long healing road for me, and ONLY the LDS have seen fit to help me along that path both personally and materially.
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Hi! I'm new here too... it won't let me start any threads yet so I haven't posted an intro thread yet. But I was a Muslim revert too, but I keep running into missionaries so often that I decided to just take that as a sign and start looking into the LDS church :)
Nikki, also, you will find many who say things about the LDS that make me laugh. Please be careful to get answers for questions you have from LDS folk. Some of the things you will hear need to be taken in context.
Polygamy was one of the first things that people threw at me, but being Muslim, it was not an issue for me. In truth, about 3000 FLDS practice it, and compared to somewhere around 15 Million Salt Lake LDS, this is not significant. It is later that I find out, and no I can not remember the source, that some Muslim writing says that polygamy is no longer permissible. During the time I was Muslim, I only knew two women that were separately in a Polygamous marriage and neither were overjoyed about it.
Please proceed calmly and in prayer.
Hala
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Hi! I'm new here too... it won't let me start any threads yet so I haven't posted an intro thread yet. But I was a Muslim revert too, but I keep running into missionaries so often that I decided to just take that as a sign and start looking into the LDS church :)
Welcome. I was Muslim for only 5+ years. Some of it was very good for me and some, not so much. As I get more deeply into LDS, I see some similarities, but in a good way. Have you seen this too? It is not surprising to run into other X-revert Muslims because in some categories 66% of us fail in Islam. You will have questions and doubts and I pray in the name of Jesus Christ that your way will be guided by the Holy Spirit. Ameen.
It is very nice to meet you.
Hala
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Hala, I would encourage you not to give too much ear to those who seek to tear down other religions. I am not an expert on Islam, but I had a close friend who was Muslim and who was one of the most virtuous and admirable people I have ever known.
Films like this, purporting to "tell the truth" about Islam, seem to me much like the anti-Mormon films that claim to "tell the truth" about the evil cult of Mormonism. The anti-Mormon efforts are patchworks of outrageous lies and out-of-context teachings, so I suspect the same might be true of the anti-Islam films.
Thank you. I had failed to make the connection in spite of the fact that the LDS reluctance to attack other religions was one of the things that originally attracted me to the LDS.
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A certain President who interviewed me felt that I could be in danger when I left Islam, but I did not listen to him. Then today, I find this video:
Islam: What The West Needs To Know | Watch the Documentary Film Free Online | SnagFilms
This seems to be a well thought out video, by well educated men and women, who have every reason to really know. I wish I could get this video back to this President and tell him that I now really understand.
Hala
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Wow, as I typed out the title, it felt really strange to see the words appear before me. Something my Elders said this afternoon has gradually crept in and given me pause to really think. He asked me if I felt settled in giving up Islam?
Gee, this started in Kirtland in early March and I do not know how many different ways I can prove that I am.
The answer I first gave him was a simple, "Yes, I am ready." But now at midnight, the question is still echoing in my head. I was Muslim for over 5 years, and while the beliefs felt right at the time, I was not well accepted because most Muslims I knew were immigrants and a white American woman in Islam has a tough time of it. The failure rate is some 66%.
I'd been an evangelical christian for over 30 years before and was devout. But my exit from that faith made me hate them and their "plastic Jesus". I never thought I would worship their God and their Jesus again. Even the toughness of trying to be Muslim was better than the bizarre Christianity that I had come to know.
Then I had an encounter with the Holy Spirit in Kirtland, Ohio. I fought you at first. I could not believe that anyone who said they were Christians could be genuine, actually do God's will, and follow Jesus. I have to say that fight it as hard as I could, I couldn't win the argument.
There is a problem with me, so I could not just do a few lessons and be baptised in a month or two. It's had to go clear to the First Presidency, but some things have happened to virtually insure that he will approve my application. I thought it was because of my little problem but My Elder's question today made me realise that there is concern that I am not settled in my own mind about Islam. I don't know how to reassure them. Now I have thought about it so much that I am not even sure myself, and I'm really tired.
You've broken all my resistance and I thought it would be easy to tell that. Sure, I learned a lot of things in Islam that made me a better person, and I don't want to give those things up. Parts of my conversion to LDS was made easier because of Islam, not harder.
I don't know, maybe those who are deciding about me think that all Muslims are going to hell, like John Hagee once said. If I really believed that Mormons thought that, we would not be talking.
I want to keep my modesty, my way of thinking about God. I want to kneel on the floor and tell him how I absolutely adore God, and ask him from the deep places in my heart to forgive me for my sins that day. If I ever have another husband, I want to respect him deeply, and to be respected.
You LDS have loved me so completely that I finally feel loveable, and you don't know how hard it was for me to finally begin to trust you. Returning to Jesus and the Holy Spirit were not hard at all because Muslims and Christians believe almost the same things about Jesus Christ.
I doubt that I will ever lose all of my Islam. But I have given up the things in Islam that conflict with LDS theology. I do not know what else I can do now. I am going to pray and go to bed, hoping that God will give me sleep.
Much peace
Hala
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Maybe he has a friend who is interested?
Yikes !
I never dated. I married the first person I did date. um I mean I only dated one person. Gosh, you know what I mean:embarrassed:
So, like on my second date, it could happen again!
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What does the bishop's wife think?
Well, first he is happily married and have been assured that the LDS (Salt Lake Variety) no longer practice Polygamy. I actually did mention it to her and she really had no reaction at all. I will freely admit that the idea of my getting married again is perhaps, "a bridge too far". :)
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I've been divorced for nearly 7 years, and the other day the Bishop asked me if I would like to get married. WOW ! This is a whole road not taken! I'm 64 and thought I was done with all that. I was married for 40 years and thought that I knew all I needed to know about that.
This whole actively being led by the Holy Spirit is very new to me, but I have seen enough of it that I now know the Holy Spirit is one who must be obeyed. I've tried the other way.
Gosh, so now you mention all this attention by a husband, and taking care of myself and things, and I must say that this is a hat I have not tried on in quite some time.
I feel a little butterflyie.
Hala
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I had to have a test done in our university hospital's radiology department. While I was waiting for the results, I kept wondering if one of our ward members was looking at the results, as we have a number of doctors and residents in the ward. The feeling was very strong, but I couldn't remember who was in radiology and I couldn't figure a way to ask the technician, "So, is the doctor LDS?"
Well, I finish up and am at the hospital entrance when I run into the husband of a friend, also heading out. I was kind of surprised to see him and casually mentioned that I'd had some work done in radiology; I wasn't thinking about his specialty. "Oh yeah, I saw those," he responded.
Oh. Yeah. Radiologist resident. Thank goodness all he saw were some black and white pictures. Considering the number of physicians and residents in the ward, I wonder if I'm going to have to start vetting my doctors. I really don't want to be in Sunday School with someone who's seen me in the altogether.
I had my HIPAA rights violated in a really egregious manner, so this is a hot button issue for me. I am not exactly sure, but I think his conduct was not good to say the least, and may have been illegal. At least I would not want to talk to my doc about my tests in the lobby.
Maybe it is just not worth getting emotional about, but I just had a flash of anger about it.
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RescueMom:
Yes, and I know this book too. It is the book of Mormon. The Old Testament of the Bible reflects the same sort of cycle also. One of my roomates and I were talking about the same cycle just last night.
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No doubt God has something in store for you, you will be led to it when you are ready.
My roomates giggle at me, and make me turn the stereo down. For the last few weeks, I love to play Handel's, "Messiah" at full volume when I write. The Subwoofer is under my desk and the keyboard is above it, so when it is playing the keyboard vibrates with the music. It is quite a jolly good, moving experience.
Though I do not understand all that it embodies, I love God even more and love his son Jesus the Christ.
Hala
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I look forward to keeping in tough with your learning journey Hala.
Merry Christmas to you Seeker.
I always believed in God, even before I was Christian, and when I was Muslim, I believe it was the same God. I must admit that I never expected to be Christian again, but God set it up so that the Holy Spirit coaxed me into the Historical Site in Kirtland, Ohio.
After a while, "things" kept happening, and though there were tears at times, it became obvious to me that something special was happening to me. After a while fear drove me to listen to the sisters, because though I was not ready to accept the "plastic Jesus", I knew that something was guiding me and it could not be escaped. For a time, it felt like "The Twilight Zone" to me.
After months, I began to see that the LDS really were different than the Christianity I had once experienced, and more loving than either the apostate Christians or the Muslims.
This has been my first Christmas in 6 years and a joyous one it has been.
Much peace
Hala
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You don't need to worry. The Vulgate is in Latin, not Greek - Version Vulgata for the vulgar or common tongue.
My first exposure to Christianity was in my late 20's and it was basically Baptist, The Roman Road, Navigators and all that. I was not a pew warmer and actually studied the Bible. It just feels so icky to have been lied to by people I was told to trust and then find that they basically withheld information.
I mean, if they went to seminary and all that, how could they not have been taught at least Latin? I mean how can someone feel they are qualified to preach if they do not know the whole truth? This is very disillusioning.
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Hala, again there are probably many areas of life where you've learned more than me. And there's always someone who knows more than both of us in every particular of life. As I said, it is an issue of continually learning new things. I hope you learn Greek so you can study the Vulgate, etc. It will be a great benefit to you. Being 65 means little. Many Americans now live well into their 80s and 90s. You start now, and you'll have decades to learn.
Thank you for the encouragement. I still feel complicated, mixed up things. How can those who told me they were educated pastors have lied to me my whole life? How can I posibly be so ignorant? It is all very confusing. I want to find some of those people and cry and scream at them, and maybe hit them, and ask them how they could posibly have violated the trust of the people and not told the truth about God!
This Latin Vulgate has been around a long time, and how could the Catholics, and protestants have withheld such important truths? It was right there before them and they chose to advance the trinity false hood.
If Jesus walking on the water says it is me, "I AM", how can that be misinterpreted. I know that I am still speaking from a well of ignorance, but how can those who love God have been so decieved?
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Hala401,
It isn't necessarily how much we "know" as it is what we are learning. Socrates is my favorite philosopher for one thing he brought out: compared to all the truths and knowledge in the universe, we know nothing. Even if we could memorize everything ever written or discovered since the beginning of earth until now, we still would know a microscopic amount of information regarding all God's creations.
I am not an "expert" on ancient Israel because someone opened my head and dumped lots of data in there. I've spent 30 years researching all of this stuff. I've studied the Dead Sea Scrolls, Nag Hammadi, and many ancient Jewish and Christian texts. I've studied teachings from both LDS and non-LDS scholars. And I've seen a major shift in scholarship in regards to the divine council, anthropomorphic God, and other areas towards what has been accepted by Mormons since the 1840s (or earlier).
And though I've spent 30 years studying this, compared to all the knowledge out there, I still relatively know nothing.
Gosh, I just feel so inadequate now. I'm 65 and the thought of my learning Greek so I can read the Vulgate just seems horrifyingly insurmountable now. I mean, what use can the average person be? My utter shock has me feeling so "put in my place". I think I will go clean the kitchen now.
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You know, I have been watching this thread with interest, and even gotten frustrated because at times it felt like we were doing micro analysis on something that has no conclusive answer for me.
So, last night I sat at a Singles Fireside and listened to a man who speaks about 5 ancient languages talk about who God is, along with a session on how the KJV Bible came about. He talked in such lofty terms that I frankly did not understand a lot of what was said, and I was really confused about why, he, a scholar of megalithic status would bother talking to people who failed miserably at marriage?
Then later, he and his wife sat with us as we had refreshments. I have studied the Bible for many years and as Christians go, I thought I was like doing alright. Hah. I didn't even know what I did not know.
He explained that in the Greek, Jesus repeatedly says that he is "I am". We had a short conversation and then I realised that if what he is saying, and I believe, got out, it would set Christianity on its back side.
Gosh, I know so little...I wonder if his wife would let me clean her kitchen and scrub their toilets?
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What I'm understanding from these answers is:
3 people are also at the same time 1 3=1
even though ONE being exists, He is both Father and Son of Himself
And lastly, this whole concept is a "mystery", not to be understood in this lifetime.
My problem with these answers is that they're anti-biblical.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
If we are to have faith in God, we MUST know who He is and the best these answers can provide is "He is incomprehensible, He is a mystery."
I have no problem with someone believing these answers. I do find it curious however that some would mock us for saying that we do know the nature of God and that He is not a mystery.
I want to firmly state, that the LDS are not evil and they have done things for me that other faiths either could not or would not do for me. The office of the First Presidency has helped me solve a medical issue by paying most of the cost, that no one else ever even cared about, and though my association with the LDS, I now find that God has healed my soul of a bitterness and anger that I have carried my whole life. And this while I am Yet an Investigator.
So, even if I am never baptized, I know that I have felt the love of God through the LDS and you have my undying gratitude.
So, to me, I do not need to explain every little detail about who God is, because I have felt is love and that I can understand very well. :)
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The Trinity is one Being with three Persons. The Persons of the Trinity are distinct, but they are of the same Being. The Trinity is not multiple Beings; that would mean He is multiple gods, which the Catholic Church does not believe. As I said, I'm not a professional theologian, but this is the basic principle of the Trinity. Once again, I like the analogy of Love: God is Love (not *like* love, He *is* Love), and in Love there is the Beloved, the Lover, and the Love they share. This is one beautiful way to think of the Trinity.
And also, once again, words can have multiple uses. I have said that Christ is not God's Son in "the pure definition" of His biological offspring (the Father, we believe, does not have a body to have any biology to reproduce). So, no, I would not say that Christ is God's Son even "in relationship" if by "in relationship" you mean the relationship a child has to his biological father whose DNA helped create him.
Perhaps we can say that Christ is God's Son in relationship to their roles in the Trinity. They are one in Being, three in Person; there are distinct roles played by all three Persons. Perhaps the sonship of Christ is in relation to His role within the Trinity.
This is really the best way I can think to describe it at this point. Once again, we believe it is a mystery and we will all learn of it after earthly death. I personally don't feel we are meant to understand all the ways of God: to me that wouldn't be much of a god, one who can be completely understand with human reasoning.
We are trying to explain something that is unexplainable. I put it all very simply. If we continue to pass in the night with our complicated ideology, never understanding one another, then all is lost.
The words and ideals of Jesus are simple. "Love God, Love one another". This is the core of Christian belief. I have spent most of my life with people filling my head with complicated theologies, rigid rules, unattainable goals, self loathing and damnation.
If I follow Jesus Christ, then my life will be filled with charity by volunteering where I can help others, being loving and compassionate, being moral, and being modest. The modesty was a challenge for me because inside I am the original party girl. But eventually I had to face God with that, and he helped me.
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When the LDS Church wants to send missionaries to a given nation, the first thing done is to meet with the appropriate leadership of that nation. We always go through the front door, as it were. Most, if not all, of the Arab nations are yet closed to LDS missionary efforts because those nations won't allow it.
According to my understanding, missionaries are allowed in Israel, however they are not allowed to actively proselyte. If someone comes to them and initiates the discussion, that's fine, but they (the missionaries) cannot openly seek converts in any way.
It's a policy of showing respect and deference to the authority of the various nations, as well as the individual's right to believe as they choose. We would love to be able to send missionaries all over the world, to every nation, but it's not something we wish to force upon anybody.
WOW ! The LDS astonish me again! When I was evangelical, we were conditioned to "button hole" anyone who would listen, and there were times when the recipient was not open to being um proselytised.
When I was Muslim, I was talking on SKYPE to a friend in Saudi Arabia, and he asked me what I thought of a Christian talking to him about Jesus. I told him that I felt that the man should respect Muslims, and if he did not like it, then my friend should tell him if he did not stop he would go to the Religious Police.
So, I very much like the LDS approach, though I must again say that I do know Muslims who believe in Jesus Christ, (Isa PBUH) as The Christ, the saviour of the world. I wonder where this will all end.
This morning I was reading a news story that by 2040, the world will see very serious oil shortages, and it was the writer's opinion that the Middle East would collapse economically. It was also the writer's opinion that by 2019 the fusion generator in France would be on line and the technology would spread rapidly.
So, one can easily extend this logic to hope that areas that were once closed to the LDS will be open. Inshallah. (God willing)
Much peace
Hala
Evolution/Creationisim
in General Discussion
Posted
I can be at peace with what you say. And there is so much that we do not know, but there is no harm in trying to figure it out. I just wish more scientists would observe the rules of science, "Hypothesis, Theory, Law", yaknow?