inactivetx

I, too, have a problem with the polygamy issue. I am a convert and currently inactive. I have just recently been contacted by missionaries to reactive me and I have taken it upon myself to re-read the BoM. I try to ignore the polygamy thing as a past issue, but when I read things like Jacob 2: 23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son. 24 Behold, David and Solomon• truly had many wives• and concubines, which thing was abominable• before me, saith the Lord. 25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a arighteous• branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph. 26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old. 27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one• wife; and concubines he shall have none; 28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts. 29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or acursed• be the land for their sakes. It makes the whole flip flipping one wife/many wives stance of God seem a little strange. But to be honest, I pretty much ignore the issue.

I remember in college attending a service at a non-demonational Bible church and the pastor saying that the Austrialian Aborignise (sp) who have not heard of Christ are damned to hell. I found that offensive that a God of love would indiscriminately damn people due to no fault of their own. ps - that's the MC concept of eternal hell - not LDS spirit prison, in which case the pastor is correct

This is the second time someone here commented on my username. Actually it is inactiveTX as in I am from Texas and am an Inactive LDS. Hope that clears up some confusion. I wish I was as clever as you all think I am

Stephen, I am new here so forgive my ignorance. Where are you coming from? Snow assumes you are LDS, yet porterrockwall questions homosexuality in the priesthood which I would give refers to Episcopals? If this is yes, then we are kind of in the same boat. I attend Episcopal Church (my faith before LDS) and am considering re-activating into the LDS. Maybe we can talk? And before porterrockwell has a cow - I, too, am deeply disturbed by the Episcopal Churches actions to ordain a homosexual priest, much less a bishop. My particular diosese rejects his ministry. (they can do that in the Episcopal church being Bishop led and all). BTW - in regards to the Jesus is God/Trinity thing - I posted under "real jesus" thread and would be happy to continue that disucssion.

After reading much LDS perspectives on the Trinity - including this and other boards, many Mormons don't understand the mainstream concept of the term. As an Epsicopalian/inactiveLDS who has seen both sides, I'll try and explain There is much talk of the Father and Jesus being separate persons. Duh MC (Mainstream Christians) believe they are separate persons as well - who was running the universe while Jesus was on earth? Who spoke at Jesus' baptism? Who raised Jesus from the dead? Thus, I believe LDS needs to put less emphasis on the separate persons thing. What separates the MC version from the LDS version is time. MC believes 1 - God always existed - there has never been nor never will a time when GOD does not exist 2 - God has always been the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. None of the members of the Godhead were ever created (yet one died and was resurrected as a result of being translated into a God-man) - Just as GOD has always existed, all three members of the Godhead have no beginning nor end 3 - As for the natures of the Godhead - here is a rather exhaustive statement: Quicunque Vult commonly called "The Creed of Saint Athanasius" Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith. Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholic Faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one, the Glory equal, the Majesty co-eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate, and the Holy Ghost uncreate. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals, but one eternal. As also there are not three incomprehensibles, nor three uncreated, but one uncreated, and one incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties, but one Almighty. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords, but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be both God and Lord, So are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion, to say, There be three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone, not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son, neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other; none is greater, or less than another; But the whole three Persons are co-eternal together and co-equal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity. Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance of his Mother, born in the world; Perfect God and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting; Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father, as touching his Manhood. Who although he be God and Man, yet he is not two, but one Christ; One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of the Manhood into God; One altogether, not by confusion of Substance, but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire. This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved. LDS Concept of the Trinity differs from MC in that: 1 - Jesus was a created being, thus did not always exist and was inducted into the Godhead. So the Godhead evolved to incoporate Jesus 2 - According to the Plan of Salvation as I understand it (correct me if I am wrong), our God the Father also followed his own Plan and thus even the Father wasn't always God, but always will be on the basis of our relationship to Him. 3 - While we will never aspire to be a member of the Godhead, the ability to become godlike is a noble goal. These three concepts are what offends Mainstream Christianity. Now, personally I have never subscribed to the Trinity and I'll save my impressions for another post - if anyone is interested.

Wow, based on this thread I checked out 'christianforums.com' and wow - what a bunch of flamers I read a bunch of stuff on the 'unorthodox' page and is it mormonville or what? I felt scared to jump in - they are pretty vicious over there! Not like the friendly folks here

Peace,Don't have a copy of the 3AD Jewish calander with me, but I thought it would be an idea. And it is amazing how much I don't know about the Church! I was only active for about a year before I moved into obscurity. The missionaries are now going through the discussion with me again after finding me 7 years later. This board is really giving me an education, thanks!!

I am not sure about the day, but most scholars believe Jesus was born in 3 or 4 BC (not a zero year) so the death year would probably be 31 AD. Now, one could technically calculate the day Passover took place in that year, looking at the lunar schedule since the holiday occurs on Nisan 14 (Jewish calander) and according to the Gospels, Jesus was arrested and tried that night. So He would have died the day after passover - a Friday, I suppose. As far as his birth, we just know that it wasn't December 25th. The shepards were in their fields which they wouldn't do in winter. The Dec 25th date was incorporated from the pagan 'Sun' god as its birthday. Interested to find out what everyone has to say.

LOL!!!Sorry, I thought this was halarious!! God, as our creator, defined that a 'good life' is loving and serving him NOT following our own dictates. Are there no moral absolutes in your philosophy or 'if it feels good, do it' mentality reigns? Who/What defines those moral absolutes or and who should follow them? When does your moral freedom impinge on mine? Your comment just raised a whole bunch of issues for me. And it is offered in friendship - no disrepect is intended.

Loud Laughter is a sin?? Well, count me a sinner!Dude, you soooooo need to lighten up. I would recommend a book by Stephen E. Robinson called Believing Christ. It is a wonderful book that will helps people understand better the true saving nature of the atonement of Christ. Whiles God's law does require perfection, we only achieve it by linking our imperfection to His and accepting His sacrifice on our behalf. If we keep trying to do it all ourselves, then we are in essence saying we don't need Christ and we are making His sacrafice null and pointless. Don't know about you, but I am thankful that Christ's atonement is available for when I screw up and know that God expects me to screw up and provided a way to repair my relationship with Him. Yes, we are to keep his commandments, but perfection is not to be achieved in this life. HTH

I think the Elder in sgallan's post forgot about the 11th Article of Faith:"We claim the privlege of worshipping Almighty God according tot he dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privlege, let them worship, how, where, or what they may." This is encompass respecting the religious practices of those who are not LDS. According to LDS Doctrine, all who live a good life will inherit a glory regardless of whether they believe in an LDS Christ or not. Therefore, the Churches mission is to prepare the Saints for the celestial kingdom and if people aren't interested, then let them be - it is part of God's plan of Free Agency.

Witnessing is alot like the LDS Testimony except there is more scriptural discussion. A typical witness is to convince via the Bible that a person is a sinner, is in need of salvation, Christ can offer that salvation and finally accepting Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. Witnessning to Mormons or other 'cult' groups entails covincing them via Scripture that their beliefs are wrong and they must accept the witnesses' version of truth. HTH

Well, he's not too happy with it. He thinks it is terribly restrictive (he likes coffee, beer and keeping all of his income) and thinks JS is a crackpot. Other than that he is fine with it LOL! He knew I was LDS before we were married, but at the time we started dating I was inactive and attending the Episcopal Church and we agreed to attend together. Our son was Christened when he was only 2 months old. The missionaries called on me about 2 months ago in an effort to reactivate me and I agreed to the discussions. I originally hoped to just say we're Epsicopal, my husband will never join, and that would be the end of it. But....as I listened to the discussions and remembered what the Church was like, I am drawn to it again. Especially since the Epsicopalians just elected a Gay bishop which really made me mad. My husband is anxious about me being active again and being the sweetheart he is (and that's why I married him!) he won't stop me, but won't be very enthusiaic about it either. We have discussed and I have told the missionaries that we go to church as a family and if my husband won't attend LDS church then WE won't attend LDS church. Anyway, the missionaries want to 'meet' my husband (I read as desire to descern his spirit if he might convert) and I asked my husband to agree. Becuase he loves me, he will try and open his mind but understands that if he says no, we say no. So to make a long story short, we hope to have him meet with the missionaries next week. Whew. TMI I'm sure, but I have been dying to talk about this! So thanks for asking!

Thank Maureen for the links, I haven't checked them out yet, but wanted to comment on something your quotes brought up. Again, I will restate that I do not believe Jesus is God, but rather believe he is a god. Anyway, this is why I have a problem with in terms of creedal statements of the trinity.1 - God's Omniscience (NIV translation) Job 21:22 "Can anyone teach knowledge to God [LORD] since he judges even the highest?" Isa 40:13,14 "Who has understood the Mind of the LORD or instructed him as his counselor?...Who was it that taught him knowledge or showed him the path of understanding?" John 8:28 "I [Jesus] do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me" (Father taught Jesus) Rev 1:1 "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place" (Father gave/taught Jesus revelation even after his ascension) If God knows all and Jesus had to learn, then Jesus is not Omniscient 2 - God's Eternalness Hab 1:12 (new american standard) "Are you not from eternity, O LORD, my holy God, immortal?" Mark 15:43 "heard his cry and saw how he (Jesus) died" How does God die? And Jesus had to die in order to redeem us. 3 - God's Omnipotence Matt 20:23 "Jesus said unto them, 'You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not forme to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father" (Jesus doesn't have this authority - it comes from the Father alone) 1 Cor 11:3 "Now I want you to realize that the head of man is Christ and the head of the woman is man, and the Head of Christ is God" (Written after Christs death and risen, The Father has the ultimate authority) 1 Cor 15:24, 27-18 "[Jesus] hands over the kingdom to God the Father...Now when its says that 'everything' has been put under him [Jesus], it is clear that does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, the Son himself will be made subject to him [Father] who put everything under him, so that God may be in all" (Jesus will forever reamin in subjection to the Father) I have thought alot about this and am can better relate to the LDS structure of the Godhead rather than the Creeds concept of Jesus as "true God from True God, light from light, begotten not made, of one being with the Father" - Nicince. I just don't fully 'get' the LDS version yet.

Outshined,Thanks for the links. I have checked out the JeffLindsay site but hadn't seen the other one. I am checking the lightplanet out. Lots of info there! Thanks! I'll be back with more questions, I'm sure!

Hi, its me again with another question. But I want to take a minute to introduce myself and explain my reasons for being here. I took the missionary discussions and was baptized 8 years ago into the LDS church from Espicopal Church. After 1 year of being active, I moved and slowly stopped attending and slowly started going back to the Episcopal Church. Now I am married with a 14 month old son and the missionaries found me in yet another new home. I have started taking the discussions again and am debating whether to become active again and attempt to bring my husband with me. Whew. So that's my story and I'm sticking to it! Now onto my question: I have never really accepted the Trinity even when I was/am Espicopalian because it was obvious to me from scripture that Jesus was the Son of God, a created being, and thus, as I see it, could not be God. Anyway, the LDS concept confuses me more. I have read alot on it and I think alot of LDS people don't understand the concept of the Trinity as other denominations teach it, but regardless, and here is my question for real How did Jesus become God? From what I understand, Jesus is our spiritual brother, yet he was special from the get go creating the earth and all. What made him different from us - also spirt children of heavenly Father. If he completed the plan of salvation, was Jesus on the fast track to Godhood because he lived a sinless life or was Jesus part of the Godhead in Old Testament times? As you can see this can be very confusing and would appreciate your insightful comments. TIA

This is from The Amazing Bible World History Timeline (Do a Google)"John: No death date given by early writers. Death date is by conjecture only and is variously assigned as being between 89 AD to 120 AD " John might not have died How you figure?

Ergo, srm has seen Matrix Reloaded a few too many times? Just teasing B) I loved that movie, too. I've never seen it. I started using years ago after my philosophy class Then forgive me for my presumption *blush*. You would find the source of my humor in the final scene of the film. Carry on.

Jason,What evidence do you see of God's grace in the last 2000 years in Christendom? I see the history of Christianity as a big mess myself. Christ formed his Church during his ministry, returned to heaven, sent the Holy Spirit at Pentacost and then God pretty much left everyone to their own devices. The Apostles were murdered and died, a definable denomination formed around 300 AD (don't quote me on dates, you're the history major ) as the Catholic Church, then the Great Chism followed by Luther and further splintering of denominations arguing over infant baptism, salvation by grace or works, Sabbath on Sunday or Saturday or even if we honor a Sabbath day. Heck, it took almost 3 centuries to agree that the Trinity even exists (and personally, I think its wrong). It is amazing that any truth survived at all! So, I guess if that's the grace you are speaking of, then I timidly agree.

Jenda,How did you arrive at the 570 AD date for the General Apostacy and how do you reconcile this with the LDS teaching that the apostacy began with the death of the Apostle John around 100 AD? Otherwise, your math is quite interesting.

Ergo, srm has seen Matrix Reloaded a few too many times?Just teasing B) I loved that movie, too.

Wow Did I start all this? Very interesting reading. Anyway, regarding the Jesus/Jehovah thing I don't understand that one either. In Psalms 110:1 it reads: "The LORD (Jehovah, tetragramaton) said unto my Lord, sit thou at my right hand until I make thine enemies thy footstool" Compare with Hebrews 1:13: "But to which of the angels said he at any time Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?" Obviously Jehovah is the father speaking to Christ our Lord. Keep going, this is fun!

Thanks everyone for responding to my question. Ray, I found your answer thought provoking. The missionaries who are now meeting with me in an attempt to 'reactivate' me gave a similiar answer as a previous poster that the world wasn't ready for the restoration until the dark ages, reformation and the concept of religious freedom was in place in American. Ray, I have a question about your comment above. What is necessary about the Gospel that man already had? During these 1600 the priesthood was gone so all baptisms performed during this period are null and void, there was no gift of the HG, and no temples to perform rites in. How did these people have the gospel?

Hi, first time poster, inactive LDS. I think I could better accept the unique teachings of the Church if it's history was longer than 200 years or so. As I understand it, the 'true' gospel died with the apostles at around 100 AD. 1) Why did God allow the truth to be lost and 2) why did he wait several centuries to restore it? I understand that an apostacy was fortold in the Bible and the BoM, but again, my question is why did the apostacy happen so fast after Christs ressurection and why wait so long to restore it? Any thoughts would be appreciated, and thanks for reading my post!