tesuji

My son has a t-shirt that says:
Civilizations, nations and empires that have tried
to destroy the Jewish People:
NATION                    STATUS
Ancient Egypt            X - GONE
Philistines                  X - GONE
Assyrian Empire        X - GONE
Babylonian Empire    X - GONE
Persian Empire          X - GONE
Greek Empire            X - GONE
Roman Empire           X - GONE
Byzantine Empire       X - GONE
Crusaders                   X - GONE
Spanish Empire          X - GONE
Nazi Germany            X - GONE
Soviet Union               X - GONE
Iran                              ???
The Jewish People
The smallest of nations, but with a Friend in the highest of places!
So...BE NICE!
 

Excellent, just what I was wanting to know.
A couple questions:
1) You said, "Talmudic writing suggests that the temple can only be constructed under direct prophetic guidance, just as the Second Temple was."
Tell me more about this prophet. Is this the Messiah? Or can it be someone else? Is there anyone now you would call a prophet?
2) You said, "We cannot build it before the coming of the Mashiach (Messiah) as we understand him."
What is the Jewish understanding of when this Messiah will come? Many Mormons and other Christians think Jesus, our "seconding coming of the first Messiah" will come soon. Do Jews think the coming of their first Messiah is also coming soon?
Of course, "soon" in God's time often seems like a long time to me
 
 

Ok.  They are two different things, but it's good that I know how the Mormon church views it.  That's what I am here for.

That is an excellent question.  I believe that one cannot stay true to the tenants of Islam and remain on "friendly" terms forever with those not of that faith.  It simply cannot be contrived within the narrative of their belief system.

Indeed, we do.  "Heal us, O L-RD, and we shall be healed."

Keeping with my usually "fools rush in..." methodology (talking about things I'm no expert in):
I wonder if you can talk about a difference between the culture of Muslims and their actual religion. I believe there are "enlightened" Muslims, and that there are others who are living in a culture that Westerners would compare unfavorably with a medieval mindset - in their treatment of women, intolerance toward other religions and worldviews, etc.
I know that living in Utah I am sometimes bugged by things Mormons do or say, but these are almost always what I would call "Utah Mormon culture" rather than something that comes out of actual Mormon doctrine or theology. 

I love that prayer - "Heal her now." We all need healing, I think.
After I learn enough Hebrew, I'm going to memorize that and use it all the time.

That is nice of you.  I feel more like a coal mine.    Why are there no modern Jewish prophets?  I wish I knew.  I'm glad I'm patient.  Moses was slow.  Moses plead on behalf of the Jewish people (after the whole golden calf ordeal) for forty days and forty nights.  Perhaps we are not ready.  Perhaps we have not prayed with great enough fervor.  We are, by nature, a stubborn people.  We were in captivity in Egypt for so very long, and, after we were delivered and after a brief Thanksgiving Day Parade, what did we do?  Complain.  About manna.  And pretty much everything else we could think of.  It isn't enough for someone to tell us to turn to G-d because we are suffering.  We need to have it proven to us that we are, in fact, actually suffering.
Q)  How many Jewish grandmothers does it take to change a lightbulb?
A)  Never mind, I'll just sit here in the dark.

On a side note, I do find myself frequently praying for Muslims.  Not praying that they will change, necessarily, but that those inclined to violence will be healed of this line of thinking.  I pray for the peace of Jerusalem and Christians as well.
It is always a simple prayer of healing.
If you recall in the book of Numbers, Miriam was kvetching about Moses choosing Zipporah for a wife.  She wasn't a Jew, after all, and Miriam was not well pleased with her brother's "foolishness."  G-d, in turn, wasn't please with her, and she was struck with leprosy.  At that point, Moses, who was NOT known for brevity, prayed a simple and eloquent prayer on behalf of his sister:
"El, na r'fa na lah."
"And Moses cried unto the L-RD, saying: 'Heal her now, O G-d, I beseech Thee.'" - Numbers 12:13
Simple.  Replete with sincerity.  The way, I believe, many of our prayers should be.

So is it possible or expected there could be modern Jewish prophets? Besides the two Messiahs?
Why are there no modern Jewish prophets?
Thanks for all your info. You are gold mine of info, and I'm very curious

Very interesting. Thank you.
About prophets - When was the last Jewish prophet? Why are there no current modern Jewish prophets (or are there?).
Full disclosure: Mormons talk a lot about the importance of our own current, modern prophets. But I'm not asking you these things in a "gotcha - Mormons have the better religion!" kind of way. I just want to understand how Jews think about this. Obviously, there used to be prophets in the past - so what about now?

1)  With regard to the Second Temple, the Talmud indicates that Zechariah, Haggai, and Malachi were directly supervising the construction.  It has not been implicitly stated who will supervise the construction of the Third Temple, on that it will require similar prophetic oversee.  I (as well as others) believe this to be the Messiah.  It could be someone else.  There is no one currently living that we could consider a prophet in the biblical sense.
2)  Ani Maamin B'emunah Sh'leimahk B'viyat Hamashiach.  V'af al pi sheyitmahmehah im kol zeh achake lo b'chol yom sheyavo.  "I firmly believe with complete faith in the coming of the Messiah, and even though he tarries (or has yet to arrive), with all that, I (longingly) await his arrival with each day."  This is Orthodox teaching.  When will he come?  Back to the flavors of Judaism.  Hasidic Jews...I will extend that to less Orthodox, but still Orthodox, Jews also...believe that he will come at any possible moment.  Immediately.  On Fox News tomorrow morning, kind of a thing.
I am a Conservative Jew, and as such, I tend to migrate toward our Statement of Principles, which says, in part:  "Since no one can say for certain what will happen in the Messianic era, each of us is free to fashion personal speculation.  Some of us accept these speculations are literally true, while others understand them as elaborate metaphors.  For the world community, we dream of an age when warefare will be abolished, when justice and compassion will be axioms of all, as it is said in Isaiah 11:  "...the land shall be filled with the knowledge of the L-rd as the waters cover the sea."  For our people, we dream of the ingathering of all Jews to Zion where we can again be masters of our own destiny and express our distinctive genius in every area of our national life.  We affirm Isaiah's prophecy that, "...Torah shall come forth from Zion, the word of the L-rd out of Jerusalem."
MOST Reform Jews that I have met and with whom I have discussed the Messianic Age, argue that there will be no Messiah in actuality.  They view the Messianic Age as a kind of happy, inclusive utopia.  I am not as familiar with their (or Reconstructionist) views other than that.
To further complicate matters, it is widely believed that there will be not one, but TWO Messiahs.  Mashiach ben David (Messiah, son of David) and Mashiach ben Yosef (Messiah, son of Joseph).  He will be of the line of King David and will institute a season of peace.

OK, this question is straying into politics, which I am trying to generally avoid. But --
Of course Muslims and Jews have a lot of trouble now getting along, based on what I read in the news. What would it take for them to ever be reconciled? Perhaps a lot of Jews and Muslims might not be able to imagine this ever happening. But what would it take?
I like to idealistically believe than any conflict can be resolved. Certainly, the world would be a safer and more peaceful place if tensions in the Middle East went away.
I also understand that this is an emotional and frustrating question for many Jews and Muslims. I apologize if this question causes distress or offense. I guess for fairness we could hope both Jews and Muslims might drop by to give their thoughts on this...

Excellent, just what I was wanting to know.
A couple questions:
1) You said, "Talmudic writing suggests that the temple can only be constructed under direct prophetic guidance, just as the Second Temple was."
Tell me more about this prophet. Is this the Messiah? Or can it be someone else? Is there anyone now you would call a prophet?
2) You said, "We cannot build it before the coming of the Mashiach (Messiah) as we understand him."
What is the Jewish understanding of when this Messiah will come? Many Mormons and other Christians think Jesus, our "seconding coming of the first Messiah" will come soon. Do Jews think the coming of their first Messiah is also coming soon?
Of course, "soon" in God's time often seems like a long time to me
 
 

Ask the Muslims.  *sigh*
But seriously, the answer depends upon to whom you ask the question.  (Always my answer, right?)  Generally speaking, certain things are preventing the building of the Third Temple (if the temple in Ezekiel is the one to which you refer), or Beit haMikdash haShlishi.  We cannot build it before the coming of the Mashiach (Messiah) as we understand him.  Only G-d can make the time known for this.
I personally do not see an issue with the Muslim occupation of what we believe to be rightfully ours.  HaShem will take care of it in His own way.  I wouldn't want to be Muslim when that happens.  Some notable scholars argue that the Dome of the Rock is not the actual location of either the First or Second temple, but I personally do not lend credence to any of their arguments, and I have read them thoroughly.  Again, I am not a scholar by any stretch, but I do read carefully and have not found myself convinced in any meaningful way.  (To the Mods...I apologize - mostly sincerely - for disparaging another faith, but I can tell you that I am writing with careful restraint.  There is SO MUCH MORE I could say with regards to Muslims and their claims, but I will try to remain amiable.  Even typing it makes me angry.)
Several organizations (actually, quite a few, although only a few of them get any real attention) have contrived ways to bring to pass the construction of the Third Temple now.  I find their ideas intriguing, but I tend to proceed with caution.  I think without G-d's direction, any such attempt would be doomed to failure before it even begins.  It may well be that the Mashiach will direct the building at a different site entirely within Jerusalem.  Even if the Dome of the Rock suddenly vanished tomorrow, it would still be practically impossible to begin construction, IMO.  Talmudic writing suggests that the temple can only be constructed under direct prophetic guidance, just as the Second Temple was.
Having said all of this, I cannot stress the importance of the building of the temple to us.  It is of utmost importance, and no one has a hope of stopping it from happening when G-d gives the green light.
 

From what I understand, the temple in Jerusalem has always been very important to Jews. Why haven't they built a temple in modern times?

I have struggled with depression for years. It's unfortunately a pretty common thing - they say it's the "common cold" of mental health.
There are many causes of depression. But it is real. And it is indeed hard to just "snap of it." Depression is not just a bad mood.
Other people have discussed the many possible causes. It can certainly have a physical cause. For example, some older men have low testosterone, and simply getting a shot can fix the problem.
Usually, in my experience, depression is not so easily fixed. A person with more than mild depression should definitely get medical and psychological help. Despite some of the negative experiences expressed here, a competent doctor and a competent mental health counselor can help a lot. 
One thing that helps many people is CBT (Cognitive Based Therapy). The basic idea is that your thoughts determine your feelings. If you have distorted thoughts ("I am no good," "I'll never get married," etc) then you will naturally feel bad. CBT can also help with anxiety.
I've posted these before, but the two books that helped me most personally were:
Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy, by David D. Burns (a CBT approach) The Complete Idiot's Guide to Zen Living, by Eve Adamson and Gary McClain But as I said, there is no one fix for depression. It depends on the person's situation.
 
If you have no experience with depression, then please do everyone a favor and don't try to imagine how to fix it. It's not something you can understand unless you've seen or experienced it.
 

I fought major depression my entire life until a little over four years ago.    The last nearly eleven years I was suicidal.  I was tried on nearly two dozen psychotropic drugs, none of which worked.  They didn't do a single thing to help.  I went through about a dozen therapists, several of whom were LDS.  All they did was to tell me what to do without letting me talk.  That didn't work.  What did work was finally dealing with my past and talking. 
I had to deal with years of sexual abuse and rape.  I eventually found my wife, who practically had to use a crow bar to force me to talk.  Once I started talking, I talked about the same thing over and over again until the memories began losing their power and became less painful.  My wife studied psychology for quite a while, so she was able to ask the right questions.  I had suppressed many memories, which slowly began to return.  The more I talked, the more they returned. 
It was like I was a little boy all over again each time a new memory popped up.  I could vividly remember the abuse, the physical pain, and the terror from each and every time I was forcibly raped and molested.  Even as I write this post, my heart is racing and the fear comes back a bit.  Many people who deal with depression have some unresolved issue from their past or a current issue that causes them dissonance.  Until they deal with those issues, the depression will continue.  Some depression is situational and they may need to get out of the situation that is causing the problem.  If that isn't possible, then the only way to deal with it is a change of perspective.
The one thing that everyone overlooks is the role evil spirits play in depression.  While they may not necessarily always cause the depression, they often make it much worse.  This is where the priesthood comes in.  I have found that whenever my mood changes for the worse for no apparent reason, I need look no further than to the evil spirits causing the trouble.  Bishop Edwin D. Woolley, the grandfather of both Elder J. Reuben Clark and Pres. Spencer W. Kimball and personal friend of Pres. Brigham Young.  Bishop Woolley gave an interesting talk in general conference.
When you're troubled by evil spirits, do as we are taught in the temple ceremony and cast them out and then get a blessing.  This isn't a cure all for depression, but it does help.

I have had multiple people who are close to me who have dealt with or are dealing with major depression, and it's been a very difficult things for me to know how to support them and understand it. It's difficult to make sense of it. It's absolutely crazy, the way they think, the things they do. Crazy to me, but it's their reality and what they feel and believe.
I remember back in 2012 searching on LDS.org for something, anything about crisis and depression, to help me have a better understanding of this illness from a gospel perspective. And there wasn't anything. Nothing helped. The best information I got from it was from non-Church resources and that helped me to have a much greater understanding and compassion for what they're going through. I knew that this was a illness that you can't snap out of someone, and while in it, it's incredibly difficult for the person to seek help and get help for it. Depression is a real thing. A real scary illness that needs real professional help to cure. And there truly isn't anything anyone else can do but try to be supporting and understanding. You can't fix something you didn't break.
So, as I'm trying to understand this better, I find myself with my family, including my parents and my husbands parents (my father-in-law had not been active in the Church since 1978) lucky enough to be sitting in the Conference Center for the Saturday session of October Conference 2013. It was the first time I had actually "been" to Conference and this was such a special event to be able to be there with everyone.
And guess who gets up, yes, Elder Holland. I felt like we had won the lottery of all Conference tickets. I didn't know this was his session to speak, and I was so excited. And then he starts to speak on the very subject that had been overwhelming my life for the past two years. And I felt like he was speaking right to me, right to those who were with me. I had overwhelming feeling, stronger than I had at any point in my life, Heavenly Father does really know me and cares about what I'm going through. No one may understand this craziness that I don't even know how to explain, but he does. He knows I needed this. He knows so many of us need this talk right now.
Flash forward to today, and so many things are better. So many things have been fixed. There are still some things that are broken, but I feel confident they can get better. I feel like no matter what comes up, I can get through it. I feel happier. I feel happier knowing that I am the one who decides whether I'm happy or not, and I can be happy no matter what situation I'm in, because I choose to be happy.
Any my father-in-law? He called us recently to let us know he was called as Executive Secretary in the Bishopric. He is planning on going through the temple soon for the first time and wants us to be there for it.
 
 

That is really a brilliant book.  I learned a lot of where the evangelicals were coming from, and got a much fuller understanding of the trinity from the evangelical point of view.  When I talk to evangelicals or discuss the Godhead/Trinity, I find there is a difference, but there are far more similarities when you peel away the layers of straw (to keep with a metaphor).

I think this is true. I recently finished How Wide the Divide? and was really impressed with the LDS contributor, Stephen E. Robinson. In many ways he changed my perspective on Latter-day Saints. One of the things he points out over and over is the miscommunication that often happens because we use similar terms or phrases differently. Many current Latter-day Saints have studied Evangelical theology and are able to communicate LDS beliefs in that context. I am currently reading through Terryl Givens' Wrestling With the Angel. I was thinking today about how much I enjoy his writing. He has studied our theology and so can describe the LDS faith in a context that I can understand.

I recently read a rebuttal of the article on an evangelical news site.  It was your basic beware of the Mormons, and don't be fooled into believing they are Christians.  The problem I have with the premise was that it was attacking essentially a straw man argument, that Mormons believe Jesus was not always God (not true).  And that Mormons don't believe in the Trinity. Yes, Mormons do not believe in the Trinity (the 4th century doctrinal definition) but we certainly believe in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, and that they are one God as stated both in the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants. Well, I think the reason outsiders are seeing Mormons as more "Orthodox" is because they are looking beyond the strawman and seeing what we really believe.

>> driving belief towards a more traditional understanding?
It's NOT that the doctrine of the LDS church is becoming more traditional.  The doctrine is the same.  What is happening is that more outsiders who thought LDS doctrine was non-traditional are learning for themselves what the doctrine actually is.  The Internet has helped with this, as well as the fact that there are many more members.  I've talked to hundreds of other Christians and am well aware that most who think they know LDS doctrine have a wrong understanding.  For the few that are open to learning, the more they learn the more they realize most basic truths they already know are agreeable with LDS doctrine.  Your quote about "we actually believe that too" made me smile because I find myself thinking that often.  I sent my two youngest children to a local Baptist preschool.  I have no problems with the doctrines taught.  Jesus is our Savior and the only way to salvation.  The Bible is true.  Jesus created the world.  We believe all of that.
 
>> The less distinctive, the less necessary. In other words, if LDS teaching becomes almost-traditional then what's the point of the Restoration.
Great question.  The Restoration was needed to clarify and correct doctrines, but many truths were already around.  Think about the non-LDS doctrinal views of baptism.  Is baptism even necessary for believers?  Does baptism need to be done by immersion?   Should infants be baptized? Who can perform the ordinance?  There are a variety of differing opinions.  The Restoration is a gift from God to clarify truths to the world, including this simple example of baptism.  Because of the Restoration, we know who baptism is for, whether it is necessary, and how it is to be done.  Additional truths hinted at in the Bible although lost over time were also revealed (such as proxy baptism for the deceased).  Although lots of the beautiful truths about baptism (and other doctrines) were already available, the Restoration clarifies and helps increase our understanding.  It allows God's children to come in the "unity of the faith" and not be "tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine". (Ephesians 4:13-14).  A correct understanding of God and His gospel allows us to develop stronger faith in Him.
 
In addition to restoring and clarifying some truths, we also need living apostles and prophets.  If you teach a people truth and then leave them to themselves, they'll get lost over time.  Circumstances come up for which inspired guidance is needed.  God uses prophets for timely guidance and direction for the whole body of believers.  In addition to giving us timely guidance, the Church with a foundation of apostles and prophets with Jesus as its corner stone is God's way of helping his people become holy (Ephesians 2:19-22).
 
Lastly, the Restoration provided more than truths.  It also provides ordinances and authority.

According to Nibley, assuming I understood him correctly, the pre-Dome of the Rock temple perched atop a steep path. (This was supposed to have been flattened out to accomodate the present massive Islamic structure.) Climbing this path was no mean feat, especially for the aged. To assist them, a handrail of sorts was installed, by which they could hold on and pull themselves up to the temple. This handrail was a rod -- specifically, an iron rod. Interesting if true, and very meaningful to Lehi's vision.

I say get a spider if you want. But personally they totally creep me out. They don't seem like they belong to this world. Maybe they were left behind by visiting aliens?