paracaidista508

Pres Monson didn't go on a mission when he was between 19 and 25 years old when he could have... I'm not gonna lose sleep over not going myself.

My understanding is it is a priesthood obligation of every worthy young man... That being said, my personal view is that it is a personal decision. One needs to decoide what to do, what to be and how to get there. Once that is decided, one needs to act and get going in life. My personal opinion as how mission service is regarded as by most members is MANDATORY. I chose not to go on a mission while I was still in high school. I enlisted in the Army and the wrath of the ward was unleashed upon me. I kinda say that jokingly, but that is the way I felt at the time. My Bishop, Seminary teacher, sunday school, priesthood leaders et al waged a constant campaign against me in order to straighten me out and get me to change my mind. My family was only passively supportive as they didnt hassle me. All my brothers went on missions except me. To this day, none of them gave me any grief. My church leaders never let up though... well at least until I left then I never heard from them again. I was fairly angry about how I was treated. Fast fwd 4 yrs later and I found myself back home in a singles ward. I quickly found out there were young women who wouldnt give you the time of day unless you were an RM and others who were not so worked up about it. I married a fine young lady who was concerned if I would be a loving and industrious husband rather than just looking for someone who had "checked the box" as many did then and probably do to this day. Anyway- I have kids now and my expectation is they do something productive in society. I dont really care if they go on missions and it is rarely talked about. Our stake is on a constant offensive over making sure everyone knows it is expected of them (the boys that is). They basically say you are a second class citizen in the church unless you serve a mission. They dont put it that way, but that is the message. All the young ladies are reminded they should seek out an RM for a husband. Our Bishop came into Priesthood opening exercises a while back and made an announcement that the boys need to get their acts together because he didnt want any more young men to become unworthy and not go. He was upset because he had just had to help a young man cancel his mission call. He didnt say who it was, but we all knew. That kid has not been back to church since. Anyway- i didnt go on a mission and I got my eagle, married in temple, have great kids, am active in the church, college degree, good job, never divorced and yet I see all around me many others who did the right thing who are complete failures in life. Not because they served a mission, but because a mission is not any guarantee of anything. I also have many fellow brethren around me who served missions and are fine people with fine families. A mission is for those who want to go. If you dont want to go- dont. Go do something worthwhile and move on. Be prepared to get an earful though. My two cents.

Thanks for the responses...We will see how it goes.

Anyone here know some decent walk-in areas for flyfishing in Rexburg area? Not looking to travel too far and just want to catch some trout. This will be late june time frame. Thank you!

FYI- The Tomb is Guarded by the US Army, not the Marines. There has been a guard posted there continuously since 1937------------even in rain, shine, sleet, snow, hurricane https://tombguard.org/society/faq/

My thoughts on why the decision to allow openly gay kids in scouts was so the church wont appear to be the bad guy in all of this. Eventually, the support will fall out from the bottom of this and the BSA (church involvement) will disintegrate and there will be no support. I found it odd when the church decided to take this position, they didnot provide any guidance on how to handle a gay kid in the troop- Caveat: If they did, it never got to my level and I was currently serving as a scoutmaster. Anyhow: I never heard what we are supposed to do when we are pairing up kids to sleep in their tents and no one will stay with the gay kid. I suppose we are supposed to just force a straight kid to sleep overnight with the gay one or pack up the whole group and take them home because they are a bunch of bigots. Cant win in either scenario. I can only imagine the other boys will make fun of the straight kid who "slept with" the gay kid and what negative impact that would have on the straight kid- or both of them for that matter. People may say that the kids have no sexual identity yet. People who say that are stoned out of their minds. Our high schools and jr highs here have tons of open lesbian kids and now the open gay boy thing is growing exponentially. Every school event I go to I see kids engaging in same sex PDA...boys and girls. Couple this with the fact that the church focus lately has almost completely shifted to missionary work (evidence by the fact my kid rarely has scout activities, but they do church stuff on tuesdays instead) I can see the BSA going away for the LDS church probably in the next five years or less.

Interesting responses and esp yours capitalist. Thank you

Well after the recent drive that was termed "successful" they are still asking for money. In fact the Bishopric has stated they wont stop asking until every member of the ward has been given the opportunity in person to donate. I am in AZ and these guys wont leave us alone. My sense it that the haul wasnt quite as successful as they anticipated. Does anyone have any first-hand knowledge of how the FOS drive is going?

So when asked if I keep the word of wisdom and i can truthfully answer the big giant four "no" s then I am ok? even if I dont watch my weight, exercise, eat meat sparingly etc??? Even if I dont even try? If I recall correct, the question is do you keep the word of wisdom? I dont remember any itemizing of verse going on. I guess it is my mistake to actually assume it is meant if I kept it in its entirety. I feel so liberated now.

The Word of Wisdom is a law of health revealed by the Lord for the physical and spiritual benefit of His children. On February 27, 1833, as recorded in section 89 of the Doctrine and Covenants, the Lord revealed which foods are good for us to eat and which substances are not good for the human body. He also promised health, protection, knowledge, and wisdom to those who obey the Word of Wisdom. https://www.lds.org/topics/word-of-wisdom?lang=eng

I dont have to justify my use of opiates...my war injuries are justification enough due to all the hardware I have had installed to correct the damage (not to mention the incessant pain) and they are prescribed by a Physician. If you go back and read a bit, you will find I mostly avoid their use because they impact my ability to work and function normally without feeling intoxicated or hung over. See post 74 for further details.

Nope- I dont know better, just simply stating that we are ignoring portions of it. Obviously the Lord isnt, but as a people here on earth we are.

I dont look at them as commandments. but I do see complete obedience to the WOW as a REQUIREMENT for entry into the Temple. We are asked if we keep the word of wisdom. If one does not use meats and grains prudently and is pretty much a glutton- then they cannot answer truthfully. If I am in an interview for a recommend and the bishop knows for a fact I am a smoker and a drinker he should deny a recommend based on his knowledge even if I say I dont drink and/or smoke. In the same situation, if my bishop knows I am not diabetic and I am slothful, grossly overweight, I always have the DP in my 64OZ Circle K cup, I go for thirds and fourths not only at church functions, but everywhere I go and...I cant make it from the pews to the podium without stopping for a rest I will still get a recommend....even if I lie to him and say yea I live it. He knows I dont and will still sign the recommend. Why? Because we dont want to face the truth when it comes to this issue. It is easy to target the biggies tobacco, alcohol and coffee. The Gluttony? Not so much. Too many people in that category. Anyway--- Such is life. Despite Heart disease being the leading cause of death ion the US, we give one of the biggest contributors (obesity is a major contributor to heart disease) a pass. See below: Figure 3. Age-adjusted death rates for the 10 leading causes of death in 2012: United States, 2011–2012 NOTE: Access data table for Figure 3 [PDF - 8 KB]. SOURCE: CDC/NCHS, National Vital Statistics System, Mortality. From the Mayo clinic: Causes of cardiovascular diseaseWhile cardiovascular disease can refer to different heart or blood vessel problems, the term is often used to mean damage to your heart or blood vessels by atherosclerosis (ath-ur-o-skluh-ROE-sis), a buildup of fatty plaques in your arteries. Plaque buildup thickens and stiffens artery walls, which can inhibit blood flow through your arteries to your organs and tissues. Atherosclerosis is also the most common cause of cardiovascular disease. It can be caused by correctable problems, such as an unhealthy diet, lack of exercise, being overweight and smoking

You are making my point. You don't even regard the wow to be council against gluttony. if 89 states I am to use meats and grain sparingly, a gluttonous person is clearly violating the wow. Funny how you disregard that guidance too. My point is made By none other than you.

According to this the church does require us to use grains and meat with prudence. https://www.lds.org/topics/word-of-wisdom?lang=eng So despite this statement from the church, we dont require restraint and discipline when it comes to addictions to carbs and sugars? You have made my point for me....it is required, but not really.

"Total and complete bull. The standard one has to be meet on the Word of Wisdom aspect of Temple recommend worthiness is very clear. Ask any missionary." Agreed that is the standard that is supposed to be met, but.... Again I'm out smoking on the church lawn and Bro and SIS cantstopeatingdonuts is over there gorging themselves on DR pepper and a fourth plate of cherry pie. You know darn well I'd never get the recommend and the lovely couple would...even if we are both seen by the bishop doing what we are doing. BTW_ I don't get heartburn over this stuff, I'm just pointing out why I don't get heartburn over it. It isn't enforced and you know it. What I mean by "enforced" is when a bishop knows and has seen a person do this stuff it isn't even mentioned unless it is smoking, drinking, coffee or drug abuse. If you say it is then you definitely attend a different LDS church than I do. I have never heard of it enforced and I'm near a half century of membership here.

"People are not 'unworthy' because of the size of their bodies - a healthy body can just as easily hide secret and serious sins that are far worse than over-eating. It's not ideal, but I know that not one person is 'obese' or overweight because they like it - there are many factors that contribute to this and no-one should judge the 'worthiness' of anyone else because of their weight." Agreed- but it is not the fact alone someone is overweight...it is the fact we see what they do and know from witnessing it that the judgement can be made. No different than if I was out smoking a cigarette on the church lawn between sacrament and sunday school/ If someone saw me do that- I wouldnt see a recommend for at least 6 months if not quite a bit longer. We all know this to be true. My issue is why dont we confront the ridiculous and in our face violations we see all the time??? What exactly is the standard? Whatever we want it to be apparently. This is why I dont worry about it a whole lot. I dont drink, smoke etc..., but the last thing I'll ever get wrapped around the axle about is the WOW since we only selectively address the obvious. "I can only imagine that you are in a lot of pain for your head to be moving in that direction. My husband lives with chronic back pain and I know what a burden it can be. I hope that your doctors can find a good alternative to help with your pain." Never goes away and never will. I dont think the MJ thing is nearly as bad as the opiates. Opitaes are essentially watered down heroine. As to which substance is more addictive??? I'm betting the opiate over the THC. I rarely if ever take them because I get hung over, cant drive and they make me really cranky....you think I'm bad now...ha

W You may want to read the democratic party platform. Heres a quote: Protecting A Woman's Right to Choose. The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman's right to make decisions regarding her pregnancy, including a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay. We oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right. Abortion is an intensely personal decision between a woman, her family, her doctor, and her clergy; there is no place for politicians or government to get in the way. We also recognize that health care and education help reduce the number of unintended pregnancies and thereby also reduce the need for abortions. We strongly and unequivocally support a woman's decision to have a child by providing affordable health care and ensuring the availability of and access to programs that help women during pregnancy and after the birth of a child, including caring adoption programs. Link: http://www.democrats.org/democratic-national-platform#greater-together You are right...its not all about abortion, but this paragraph makes it very clear they wholeheartedly support it for whoever wants it. Yes the church allows it in some very rare and extreme circumstances---not for general birth control though.

I dont recall ever saying the Lord was concerned with making a case..I asked how they expect to make the case for no coffee / tea while allowing much worse beverages to be consumed. The magazine article was very clear the stuff was horrible for you. Sounds to me like a case was being made to not drink it. If so, why not prohibit it? After all the WOW does not even mention coffee or tea,,,just hot drinks. Granted, interpretation and clarification has been added since. It also does not say I cant smoke weed either- just tobacco. Since no one should question anything I suppose I can blaze away and I'm still in compliance. I mean if I'm going to get flamed for asking, I should just go with strict interpretation- meaning just what it says. My point is why we (church officials) overlook clear and obvious violations and allow others to pass into the temple? If I go to a recommend interview and my bishop saw me smoking the day before...im not getting a recommend. On the otherhand, if I was seen by my bishop the night before at a ward dinner and I cleaned up three plates of food, two sodas and three pieces of pie....weigh 300# and cant make it across the cultural hall for a fifth serving well I'll still be good to go. We know these people and they are everywhere. They get a pass (always) and if the rest of us decide a smoke or a cup o joe is in order we are very clearly violating the WOW. Now when I am speaking with a potential investigator about this to I tell them to shut up and obey or do I help them to understand? The WOW is very clearly not evenly enforced. For full disclosure, Im not making fun of fat people (I could lose some myself), just making an illustration of an obvious violation that is essentially overlooked if not encouraged....when do we not have refreshments?

Easy decision as far as demo vs rebub. If you support abortion you are a democrat or should at least vote that way. I mean lets face it- the democratic party is all about abortion. Everyone else- republican/ conservative. no push- thats just the way it is.

I dont worry a whole lot about it as is is not enforced equally and we have had conflicting messages delivered about some issues in the past. Here is an example: https://www.lds.org/ensign/2008/12/the-energy-drink-epidemic?lang=eng This article goes on and on about how horrible energy drinks are (and I agree) and that they contain in some cases drastically higher doses of caffeine and other not so good stuff, yet the church doesn't just say, "thou shalt not drink them." The way I look at it is if they cant make a case for an energy drink, how then can a case be made for coffee and tea? I know....its scripture. I get it, but the fact remains- this stuff is horrible for you yet I can walk around at an LDS church picnic with a red bull, rockstar or whatever and people will ask why I didnt bring them one. Bring a cup of coffee and I'd be asked to leave. As for enforcement- Temple recommend interviews ought to determine cause of extreme obesity I see everywhere. I know where it comes from and that is the fact LDS cannot get away from serving refreshments for everything. Since we cant drink, smoke it apparently is ok to clog our arteries with fat and not exercise....clear violations yet I always sit next to someone in priesthood or Gosp Doctrine who cant fit in their chair. There are not that many diabetics running around. As for smoking- no problem. Well when I retire I'll prob smoke some weed here and there as opposed to taking one of the half-dozen pain killers the VA gives me now for chronic pain. I suppose either way the drug will eventually kill me so why not smoke pot if it works? Besides, its not tobacco so should be alright...........right? If it doesnt work, probably will go back to the opiates as I dont have much interest in being a pot head. Just my 2 centavos.

Went to the DE. Says they are working it, but nearly two weeks later all I have heard is basically "we are working on it." As for my kiddo going to a non-LDS troop. That will be a no-go, his friends are here and he has pretty much written off scouting. I can tell you my days of helping with scouts or donating to scouts has effectively ended. Not necessarily because of this, but because no matter where we go, it is some form of disorganized mayhem and a general lack of interest, I would rather spend my time doing other things than to deal with leaders and parents who are basically disinterested 3rd parties.

Thanks everyone for the input..going with the DE route. Will let you know what happens.

Squeeky wheel is the parent ....that would be me. I have my suspicions it is payback for raising cane at the stake level a few years ago about misplaced priorities and siezing of our ward scout funding for other projects. I wasnt in this ward though so maybe not. Other scouts are getting their awards, but my kid seems to get passed by everytime. Over a year's worth of courts of honor now. Probably will go council route so perhaps someone can audit all the mismanagement we have. I am beyond worrying about hurting the feelings of others.

@ Backroads...DE District Exec???