paracaidista508

I have no idea....all that's been said is it has been raised...I figured I would roll with a common sin that is pretty bad and apparently it is still ok to fornicate...just repent and you are good. That was a requirement then too, but you could "resolve" it in a few weeks. Im thinking nothing has really changed other than a timeline. They still send kids who did whatever prior to mission They still send kids who openly don't want to go, but with a cattle prod go anyway so what has changed? As for the balance who are excited to go and there are many...well they go and do their thing

Yea....like the guy who stole the virginity of several of the girls in the stake... I guess if you are a roving player its ok, but if its just one girl then we have a problem with that??

hmm ok then so the bar wasn't raised I guess

And this folks is among the many reasons military service is discouraged by many...not just lds folks. This info here was valid to some degree up to maybe ww1. After that it is a different ballgame. I can elaborate if you wish, but todays military (Post Vietnam era) is wildly different than your description here.

so were you the one who stole everyone's virginity or they guy who was a party animal?

So the standard really hasn't changed then except for perhaps the timeline. When I was that age they could have sex / girlfriend and go a few weeks later...Now its a few months maybe. Well that is not a higher bar.

Um last I heard if you fornicate prior to mission you are not going no matter what. Again I may be wrong. Am I?

One of the best zone leaders I ever had was hated in his stake because he had took the virginity of many of the young women. He too did amazing things on his mission and was an amazing leader that taught me so much about what a good missionary is. Another great missionary that exhibited more love than could ever hope for grew up in Vegas, had a tattoo on his thigh and was huge into partying before his mission. He was and is one of the most kind and bold people I know. True liver of charity. I could probably think of more examples if I thought hard enough, but I won’t. And nowadays with the raised bar, At least two of those missionaries would never be allowed to serve a mission no matter what. I may be wrong though.

Another thing to consider....They are kids. We can't even get our adult membership in the church to always do the right thing. Good luck with the kids. Unless we send them when they are 8, this will always be a problem.

Perhaps their limited experience growing up makes them not want to. Maybe their older brother is an rm and tells them his mission sucked,,,,worst two years ever. Or a friend who writes and tells them that. Maybe they dont have a testimony. Maybe they are tired of their hardliner parents banging their fist on the kitchen table ordering them to do......insert standard momon task of any type.... Perhaps they have a girlfriend and won't leave her Maybe they just flat out don't feel like it Maybe these days they feel they can actually make their own decision as opposed to being forced to go by their parents. Perhaps they don't actually believe they are a bad person for not going Maybe they found out that many lds girls will marry a non rm contrary to what others may say Maybe they are not going because it really isn't mandatory despite many who will claim it is. Make it mandatory and ex comm anyone who doesn't go. Right or wrong, everyone who doesn't go has their own reasons. I feel today's youth stand up for themselves a bit more than in the past.....and some have parents like me who actually let them make their own decision as opposed to just telling them what to do. Take your pick....collectively many are not too excited to go so I guess Houston has a problem. I have an idea...let's start compulsory military service in this country and the only exception being serving your particular church for 2 years full time. We all know how many lds consider the military to be a rather poor choice of vocations....watch them flock to the mtc.

Im sure they do. Most any organization has a policy to cover all kinds of stuff....to include perverts. Just something that cant be controlled fully. It happens and depending on how the organization handles it generally determined how much you pay. If the guilty party is on the company clock, the company is on the hook. The more asleep at the switch the company appears, the greater their responsibility for failure to act...negligent retention, policy failure, lack of policy, etc.

They likely have a set amount they have to pay no matter--- like a deductible. Beyond that, they will have a couple insurance companies to cover various expenses with ceilings of course. Lloyds of London is a company that covers these types of things. https://www.lloyds.com/lloyds-around-the-world/Americas/US-homepage

- re stats, dwindling numbers etc, When has this been a game of numbers? Do we want quality converts who know what they are getting into or do we just want to baptize as many as possible in the hopes we retain a few?...asking for a friend - why don't kids go on missions? Well since I didn't go I feel kinda qualified to answer that at least as it applied to me. This was mid '80s and not in Utah btw. First off- I never planned on a mission- went military so there's that. That issue aside, I associated with LDS friends in HS who ranged from 16 to 19 ish. Our group of LDS kids were quite into the party scene. I'm talking everyone there was involved with something having to do with beer, cigs, pot, coke, sex, gambling etc.... Some just dabbled and there were a few others who went all the way in more ways than one. Not all the kids in my ward and surrounding wards were into that, but there were a few dozen. There were two ( I was one of them)in my cohort who did not go on a mission. Here are some observations and my thoughts at the time....at the time being relevant because we want to know why kids are not going on missions. So there is this party scene. When you are in that you know what everyone else is up to. When they all of a sudden are leaving on a mission and you were partying with them a couple weeks prior one sometimes wonders how that is even possible. That said, I always gave them crap about going on a mission after doing whatever and how they pulled that off...two answers I was given. They either lied their way through the process or they confessed and were then able to go. I'm not one to tattle so their secret was safe with me. What I didn't understand was how someone could allegedly confess and get sent off just a couple weeks later....for drug use and fornication! And the others who lied...well I guess no one knew any better. So here I am thinking, "ok this process is supposed to be inspired. Many of these guys are no way even close to being worthy to go on a mission and thru the temple, yet they are. So either it is inspired or not." Beats me because we have guys who lie to go do it and others who confess and allegedly get all repented and all in a matter of a few weeks and then go. At that point I was like ok well definitely not an inspired process because they are letting anyone with a heartbeat go and some of these guys made me look like peter priesthood. Frankly I had no business going. The difference between me and them was I was at least honest about not being worthy and others were not, yet I and my friend were treated like trash because we didn't go. So nowadays the bar has been raised. What is interesting is just from the knowledge of my own little social experiment which is very unscientific, I would venture to say there are at least a few bishops out there who in their day wouldn't have cut it, yet here they are vetting a kid for a standard they (at the time) never met. Interesting. Another aspect to look at- where I grew up the parents had some money, not tons and many of the kids were promised cars and paid for college when they got back. If they didn't go, they didn't get it. I was also presented with that option. I didn't go and had to pay for everything on my own. Fair deal. ...bottom line- at the time I felt that if you could lie your way into a mission, then it wasn't true anyway. Even if it was I wasn't going because I had another plan so it wouldn't have mattered anyway. -Coming home from missions early. In my own ward and stake we have had tons leave and come right back (within 6 mos). I have no idea why other than in a couple cases and that was one unresolved sin and the others were they just hated it and came home (my son was the source of that feedback). I'm not going to pretend to know how hard it is to be away from home that long doing mission stuff so I am not going to criticize anyone for coming back early. I think that they are because it has been made easy to do so and maybe even acceptable. When I went to boot camp, I can tell you that for a couple weeks I probably would have left and so would many others if we were allowed to. Problem was you would get tossed in the clink and then prosecuted for AWOL before being dishonorable discharged. The reason I may have taken off was the first two weeks of constant harassment, no sleep, crappy food, incessant name calling and berating your mother, your religion, your race or anything else they could find to humiliate you and berate you. Not to mention the constant grass drills and never ending physical punishment. It literally was a painful experience to even move much less breathe. It was just a tad uncomfortable and after a few weeks once everyone decided they would act as a team it was ok. I say this because it was not really a problem and even enjoyable after a while to put up with their crap because I wanted to be there. When you are motivated, it is easier to do difficult things. When you are not, it can be a prison sentence. I feel many of these kids don't even want to go and given the very regimented environment they are in, they just bail out when the drama exceeds their willingness to tolerate it...whatever that drama may be. So if they are motivated and actually wanted to go then their odds of staying are much higher than someone who's arm got twisted or their parents bribed them. How many kids fall into either category is unknown. I always told my kids if they wanted to go, then go because you want to go and it is the right thing to do. If you do go- do a good job and finish it. I'll never even try and persuade you to go and I never bugged them about it. They decided according to their motivations and convictions not mine.

U need to go read up on this. Provo never gave the report to BYU. BYU pd looked it up. They are being investigated for this along with thousands of other questionable inquiries into the database. The volume of inquiries by BYU plummeted once they found out they were being investigated. Tells ya something right there.

That is not what happened. BYU never callled Provo. Was the other way around when three weeks later Provo is like what are you guys doing looking up this report? Lets just say for example later on the court and investigators find BYU Police broke the law in dealing with this issue. Are you fine with a govt organization (Police) breaking the law in order to further the mission of BYU? If so what other laws are you ok with the police breaking? Where is the line with you??? Lastly- are you ok with your local police breaking the law in order to get you for something...anything?

My very first post I said they told everyone.

Might as well tell everyone and get the story out there. If not some of the more verbally accomplished women in the ward will make up their own reason and it won't be good.

Sure ...that's why I replied they may want to beware. When they told me I was like are you serious? You can't wait two more weeks? They said nope and I was like well ok ...whatever.

You don't see any humor in them running around talking about how badly they have to have sex now??? That is literally what they were saying...as for gossip. A...I'm not naming them and B...heard it from them as did everyone else. It's true. They literally went around telling people this because they felt they should tell everyone why they cancelled the sealing. Nice way of saying thanks for your RSVP, but we have to go knock boots now. It was ridiculous....people literally were asking them they couldn't wait two more weeks and they just laughed.

Repent??? The kids announced it to everyone who would listen. It isnt gossip. We cant wait for two more weeks to have sex were getting married now!!! People were dying laughing at them.

Yep. Judge Roy Bean You'll get a fair trial followed by a first class hanging

I like that solution...beware though. We had a couple In our old ward who did that and told everyone. They were a laughing stock. Couldn't wait 2 more weeks. Just wait till ur married in the temple.

Actually the contract stated the donor sperm had to meet certain specifications...ie the donor had to. The Dr did not meet those specifications. I recall it had to do with hair and eye color, height and had to be a college student. That said, the contract was probably violated.

No kidding...I don't care how the church runs their school as it is theirs. At the point they decide to use a governmental organization (byu pd) to enforce moral issues which are not violations of the law and do not happen on their campus, then there actually is a public interest at that point in how a police department which has been ruled a government organization is wielding its state powers. Tithing funded or not....they opened themselves up to this. If they don't want the scrutiny, disband the police department and go back to security guards who have no powers. Then they can call Provo pd anytime the find a kid with a beer or not having shaved. Provo pd then can decide what they will help out with.