paracaidista508

What is odd about my ward? You don't know anything about it.

He told him to go kill laban....in person. Maybe it is just me, but I'm thinking that is a bit different. I'm sure for you guys it is exact the same because when you were 19 you had a better testimony. Mine sucked (no kidding) and a lot of it had to do with my experiences that I won't bore you with because you wouldn't even believe it if I told you..i will, but only if you want me to.

I know you think you are funny and you really are. Esp in the light majority of early returns are for mental illness. I'm sure you are kidding about the stats you ask for because you think they don't exist. I have two links to papers for you to read. You likely won't read them, but if you do you will see how the church's organized response and methods of dealing with early rm is severely lacking. There is also good commentary about the issue in regards to the church and members too. Interestingly, the three most unsupportive people to the eraly return are the stake pres, bishop and ward members. Overall the handling of the issue is a hot mess for a lack of a better descriptor. Happy reading if you are willing to: https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/irp/ Go to the article re experience of early return missionary parents https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1555&context=irp This one goes directly to the paper Enjoy! I nearly forgot...you ask how many people does it take to leave a lasting impression? If it is the bishop...only one.

I wouldnt say the entire ward was awful and i had to scroll back to see if i ever said such a thing....and i didnt. My commentary on this is how as an lds culture, early return missionaries are not treated too well. By everyone? No, but enough to leave a young impressionable kid with that belief. It is such a problem the general authorities have been addressing it. We already have a huge problem retaining honorably returned missionaries in the church after somehting like 10 yrs or so. With the early returns...I bet the retention rates of these guys are much worse. It is a cultural thing and as a collective, lds people are extremely awkward when it comes to how to deal with some kiddo who came home early for any reason, much less something negative. I suspect most people are awkward about stuff like that, but this is our problem, not society at large. Prime example...kid comes home after only 4 months. He is in the main priesthood gathering prior to. Elders and HP breaking off on their own. Bishop gets up and let's him know we are all comitted to helping him get back out there. He just answered up...I'm not going back out. Bishop said we will still encourage you....anyway meeting moved on. I actually really like that bishop, but that was about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. He came home early because he hated it. That's what he told my son, not me. They are friends. Anyway...that was a few years ago and Im no longer in that ward but am aware he never went back out.

Admitting you have a problem is the first step towards your becoming a much more likeable person. I have no intention on becoming a more likeable person so the admission of my problems has no likelihood of helping me to change.

Google is your friend.

Now if they can only get it enforced......lottsaluck!

And most will. U are probably one of the worst offenders.

Say what you want....the church has officially acknowledged this is an issue. Bitter old men in the 1st presidency. According to you, yes.

I was just reading comments on another forum which was about an lds topic. Check out the comment in the middle reference a woman in pants: 2 years ago I have another theory.Take a stroll into any fast and testimony meeting and you'll find that it's dominated by women. Without exaggeration, and if you're LDS you know it to be true, 90% of the people getting up are women. And they cry, cry, cry. The infamous tear-filled testimonies about finding lost car keys and other such nonsense almost always come from, yep you guessed it, women. At the risk of coming across as a misogynistic jerk, I'll just say it, women are illogical and emotional! They buy into the church, with all its sappiness, hook line and sinker. Walk into relief society and you'll find a bunch of crying women happy to be there. A few exceptions, maybe an angry woman with short hair wearing purple pants off the side somewhere. Walk into elders quorum and you'll find half of them asleep, the other half staring at their phones, and then a literal handful of weirdos who are really into it that are giving the rest of them guilt trips about not being more into Purple pants lol

All of my brothers and sisters have 4yr degrees from BYU and we are not from Utah. My degree is from utah. None do have advanced degrees got them at byu.

I don't believe I'm addressing Kimball's talk at all. I don't think I've addressed it all. I'm pretty sure all I said is that we should be concerned with what we should do and what we should not do and that covers things. That's what this whole controversy is built on. Pres Kimball is who spoke at conference and essentially read a new commandment over the pulpit if you believe what some would say and that is what started the whole "all young men should..." deal. We have been quoting it all along as have you. You have just been cutting and pasting from our responses. Do you need the link? Thought you had this stuff all memorized.

that's pretty funny. My platoon in Iraq used to get fired up before misisons playing all heavy metal....it makes you want to destroy stuff sometimes. Anyway was good to get them on the mood as if they needed help. They were surprised at this Mormon guy's choice when it was my turn to choose- always seek and destroy by Metallica.

Certainly every male member of the Church should fill a mission, like he should pay his tithing, like he should attend his meetings, like he should keep his life clean and free from the ugliness of the world and plan a celestial marriage in the temple of the Lord. While there is no compulsion for him to do any of these things, he should do them for his own good. Someone might also ask, “Should every young woman, should every father and mother, should every member of the Church serve a mission?” Again, the Lord has given the answer: Yes, every man, woman, and child—every young person and every little boy and girl—should serve a mission. This does not mean that they must serve abroad or even be formally called and set apart as full-time missionaries... Buenos Noches

Thanks for the honesty with this disclosure...you do see the difference though right? You went and probably got an honorable release or whatever it is called...obviously I wouldn't know. That gets the good ole RM box checked and now you are good to go. Lets just say that for the guys who had conduct issues, were lazy, got in fights, didn't do their daily reading etc...so long as they finished their mission and didn't get sent home no one will know otherwise and they reap the same rewards as those who did everything they were supposed to. Perhaps not in the afterlife, but I'm sure you get my drift. They get the benefits while the guy who says im not going cuz im not gonna do it gets stigmatized for his honesty. The dishonest who go and are a total flop on the job get the heroes welcome home...for just going and that's about all they did for two years. I dont know one rm who doesn't have a story about somene who shouldn't have been there stayed the whole time and made everyone's life miserable all the while accomplishing nothing. Always put them with the good missionary to fix them and after two years no change. Sent home with a clean bill of health and no one knows otherwise. We had one in our ward several years ago. The good missionary looked like he wanted to kill himself. I have no idea how that turned out, but I bet I can guess correctly. Not any different than military veterans in general. I served with people,who cowered in vehicles during firefights, didn't return fire etc on multiple occasions and they have the same discharge paperwork I got. Honorable. Not trying to rag on you. Just pointing out how things really are.

Acceptable casualties. Speaking of: When I got medevac'd from Iraq I saw a very disturbing scene at the hospital I was at. I recall one morning after breakfast seeing a soldier in a wheelchair with both legs in halos which is because they were shattered by a bomb. He was moving along the sidewalk with those grabbers people use to reach items and was picking up cigarette butts. It was about 20 deg f outside. I went and asked the sergeant in charge of them why they had him out there doing that and he responded well its good therapy dont you think? After all what good other than that can he really do? Anyway I went out and helped him pick up cigarette butts until I got hauled in by my commander and counseled about making martyrs out of non deserving people. Apparently the kid had a drug addiction which the army created by endles opiod prescription and this was their way of cleaning up his bill of health. He was an acceptable casualty and since he wasn't on the battlefield, the superstars figured they knew best how to help him recover. K kinda like our membership knows best with our "casualties." Our way to help early returning missionaries recover and return is to humiliate them. That isnt what the bishop and the parents do. I think they do what they can, but the membership are the ones who make it an ordeal unless the missionary is totally focused and proactive. That isn't what the church would have us do, but that is what happens. If they dont return, then we constantly remind them they didn't meet the standard. This isn't generally overt reminder, it's just the constant reminder with just the way business is run in the church that they are reminded they are a second class citizen. I watched this happen over and over again for several years in my old ward. Generally the way the person handles it really determines if it will have a negative affect on their life. In cases where it is mental problems and such, it's really too bad because they either announce it to get people off their back and then have that info hanging over their head or keep it to themselves and just get regarded as a loser. As for people like me who just went in the military- well we just have to accept the fact that a good portion of the lds membership holds a poor opinion of the military as an organization, much less as an alternative for a mission. I didnt do it for an alternative, i spent over 20 yrs doing it. While many wave the flag on holidays, not many back it up with action. To be fair, neither does the average American. We are supposedly more patriotic and better than the average but that just isn't true. Matters not to me. Not everyone has the nerts to go to combat much less repeatedly. I'm game though. I will vigorously defend other people when they are being unfairly treated re the mission stuff. Since they are all under 25 yrs old when this happens, they handle it much different than a middle aged guy like me. I'm not too diplomatic and speak freely when I feel like it. They may just feel like they have to shut up and take it.....and that's just it.

They will gossip about him. My last ward has over half the young men come back early.....even the local singles wards have them all on radar so everyone already knows they are "losers". Thats not my descriptor btw, thats what one of the ysa girls who was at our house said a couple months ago. Totally screwed. A couple of them tried to get ahead of it and just announced it was for mental problems. So yea they are even worse off than the others because frankly there's no fixng metal problems, just management

Ok shall/ shalt whatever. Gospel doctrine class back row sniper right here folks. So you saying shalt not kill is the same as should not? Also thought you told someone else not to debate willful ignorance a couple pages back. Perhaps you should follow your own advice. I have no reason to change my opinion. The words of Kimball say what they say. Get over it.

Actually the commandments specify "shall." There is a difference.

Well we are entitled to our own opinions. In keeping with the spirit of counsel....should and shall have very different meanings.

Thank goodness for the bagpipes...just about every ward I have been in sings like they are all on anti depressants....probably a bunch of them are trying to keep up with sister Smith and her perfect life I'm sure. We need a black choir to get things back to motivating.

For men the appropriate attire would be a dress. That is what Jesus will be wearing.....well it is much closer to a dress than to pants. When in rome...

So you are saying I can look for more modern scripture to suit my personal agenda? Well that's cool. Can I write some too? The Kimball quote being thrown around is the standard one which is used to tell young men they are required to serve a fill time mission. They just don't use the full quote. You know, now I see why churches back in the day liked when people were illiterate. They could tell them whatever they wanted and the masses wouldn't know any better. Kinda like now except it is the parents and self appointed backroom clergy who quote a talk....at least what they want to have heard and use it as a form of manipulative propaganda. Why not have someone read the entire thing, study it and make up their own mind. Right now we start as soon as someone has cognitive thought and essentially tell them what their punchlist is for their life. We want our kids to go on missions so badly we are willing to lie and/or and with hold info from them so thoey will go. No one likes it when you look something up and it doesn't say what they told you it