sixpacktr

Joseph Smith taught that our life is like a ring: there is no beginning or end, because if you have a beginning, you must have an end, therefore we have always existed. That is hard for me to fathom, but I figure someday HF will show me how it was done, and my feeble mind will be able to grasp that concept.

I read about half of it, and then grew tired of reading how everything can be explained scientifically. Well, DUH! Of course they can. The article almost treats Moses like some con artist that used his magic stick to fool the Egyptians, etc. To me it just reconfirms the need for faith. I think how hollow life must be for those that can't accept the there is a God in the universe that is overseeing things. When I recently read Exodus again, I too noticed that the progression of plagues were natural and logical (bad water, frogs, stench, carrion eaters, etc. ). So what? I don't know, I get more and more frustrated with people that believe in the superiority of man and how smart we are and how destructive we are and that we don't need any help from God because a belief in God is the "effect of a frenzied mind". I love science, but hate what it has become. A reason to say that ancient man was simply a bunch of superstitious dolts that had to dream up a God in order to explain things away. How sad... And how long can the ruler of the Universe put up with this stuff?

Blood oaths? Are you talking about the Danites?

Totally agree on the whole issue of agency. It is as Elder Maxwell said, agency truly is a frightening thing, because we really have no one to blame but ourselves (paraphrasing). If it were possible for us to use the excuse that Quentin Tarantino did it, it does take away our agency. Too many people in horrible circumstances have turned out for the good, and too many from idyllic circumstances have gone completely horribly wrong for us to use that excuse. The same in this case. We may never know what made that young man snap, from pressures at school to just wanting to be famous, no matter what or how, but he will be req'd some day to stand before his maker and answer for this. However, I also believe (and as I used to tell my youth Sunday School classes, this is the gospel according to me, thru my study and thinking, but not revealed thru the prophets) that if the parents fell down they will have it req'd of them as well (well that is scriptural--it is in the D&C about parents bringing up their kids in light and truth), but also, I believe, those that go out of their way to pull them down (as per Christ's teachings in Matt 18, which we studied this week in SS, about harming little ones and pulling them astray). Ultimately, it is our choice, our agency as to what we do and how we react, but I truly believe that those that contributed to those actions will have to answer for it. Again, TGATM (The Gospel According to Me).

Shanstress, My oh my, somehow I can't get you to agree with anything I say today! I am making a general statement, but there are exceptions. Obviously you are aware of some. But I hold to the belief that there isn't a lot of sense of community anymore, and that most people are in it for themselves. Thankfully, I have a ward family that helps me "come out of my shell" and reach out, and I have had wonderful experiences because of that. When I lived in Japan with my wife and kids, it was the only place I didn't feel that I was an outsider. Yes, people are friendly, for the most part, but I also believe, for the most part, that they really don't care. Maybe I'm too pessimistic? Perhaps...

JC I agree completely that the gov't should not be stepping in out of some type of knee jerk reaction to make people feel better. However, as far as the ability to screen scenes out, words out, etc., the V chip helps some, but if you'll remember CleanFlicks did something along those lines (true they resold the movies) by blotting out the profanity and the sex and violence, and Hollyweird had a fit and made them stop, all in the name of "art". The purveyors of filth and perversion do not want us to have a choice as to what we see or read (ala CleanFlicks) but rather what they think we should be seeing, reading, hearing, etc. True, just shut off the TV, don't patronize the movie, don't read the book, all of which are exercises in choice. The problem is that, as has been said time and time again, most "parents" don't want to be parents but rather best friends, and be liked. Guess what? There were times my kids hated me because I said no. But now my daughters tell me that they appreciate it (I know it sounds trite and very "Especially for Mormons" but it is true!), and that they will treat their kids the same. So when these "parents" breed, then they create perfect little monsters with no bearings, no sense of right/wrong, and a belief that everyone owes them everything because life is supposed to be all lollipops and flowers. And then it isn't, and they can't cope. And then these merchants of evil step in and fill those young minds of mush with those things that aren't meant to uplift, but to denigrate and tittilate, and we wonder why we have the problems we do.

I totally agree that we will see worse things, far worse. I pray for my kids and grandkids that they will remain faithful, because, quite literally, all hell is going to break loose as Satan sees his days of power coming to an end. However, due to whatever circumstances, the love of many has waxed cold. There really is no sense of community or belonging anymore. The glorification of violence (and I don't mean the old war movies or westerns where people were shot, etc., and died on screen. I mean the crud like "Kill Bill" and other movies where killing someone isn't the point, but absolutely maiming them with blood and guts everywhere and then calling it art. How many people actually cheer when someone is particularly maimed because "they deserved it"?), the denigration of women (both by rappers and by women themselves, that act as predatory as any man ever did), the absolute lack of respect for anyone, to me, shows that people just don't give a darn anymore about anyone but themselves and their own pleasure. The Savior taught the perfect remedy for this age old problem: love others, and serve others. That, however, isn't really taught anymore. It is to a degree, as long as you are helping mother earth, etc., but not really. I fear the day is coming when we will be like the ancient Jaredites and Nephites, where war was everywhere and people couldn't get enough of it (Ether 15, Moroni 9). We hear more about these incidents not only because of better news coverage, but because there are more people out there that are completely lost spiritually that have absolutely no qualms about spilling blood.

Right on the mark, A-train. I guess it has to do with the fact that we don't see the day-to-day faults of the old prophets. If you read the Bible, these are kind of (not completely, but kind of) glossed over, because it isn't about them, but about their message of Christ as the Savior of the world. However, Pres Hinckley can offend me today by being short with me, or playing baseball (ala Joseph Smith, who some contended couldn't be a prophet because playing ball wasn't "prophet like".), or telling me that I shouldn't gamble, etc., and take away one of my "favorite sins". That is where the rub comes, and people's faith is tried. They refuse to accept the message once they see the man because they can then claim that he is a "hypocrite". I hope the Lord will be more forgiving of them...

As I think we can all agree, this is just another sign that Christ gave us to let us know it is the last days: "The love of many shall wax cold". I'm sure that this guy felt that somehow he had been wronged, or whatever, and decided that if he couldn't be happy, then he'd take out as many as he could. Kind of reminds you of King Herod, doesn't it. He knew that no one would mourn his death, so he had his palace staff killed, as well as others, when he died, to ensure that there would be mourning. The talking heads are already saying that it is lax gun laws ("the State of Virginia has very lax gun laws" they claim). They just don't get it. The founding fathers knew that government was inherently evil, and that unless the gov't was afraid I had a weapon in my house nothing would keep them from coming in whenever they liked, kind of like the Gestapo during their reign of terror. This tragedy will be twisted to meet someone's agenda, all in the name of compassion. I wouldn't be surprised to hear come out of some idiot's mouth that finals were coming up and it is too hard and we shouldn't pressure these young minds so much...

I guess I see this differently. If Mike had gone on the air and said that there is GW and Rush said that he was a freak because of his disease then that is below the belt. However, Mike was arguing for stem cell research and USING his illness to make the point. To expect to get a pass because of that illness then when you put it into play (so to speak) is not realistic. There are going to be those that are going to question whether you then tried to raise the debate from logical to emotional because you play on people's feelings. And that is what Rush did.

JCDean, Exactly right. I like Mike (sorry) even though he is a lib. But he injected himself into a political fight and has to take the heat then. And he had not taken his meds before to prove the point. What Imus did was attack some girls that played bball. They had done nothing other than play a sport. But again, Imus is an idiot, but his sacking was spineless because it was done for the wrong reason. Rush is not a "shock jock". He makes too much sense in an extremely PC world. Nowhere is it written that we have a right to not be offended. The best thing would have been for the coach of team to simply say "he has his opinion, I don't agree, move on." But when you get the publicity "hos" involved, now you have offended people, and you can't do that. What a sad outlook on life. It is no wonder, with leaders like that, that we have created an entire class of people looking for any excuse to be offended...

The downfall would be all the accountants out of business, the government not being able to keep tabs as easily on what you're earning and doing or being able to sell your information. Rosie, Exactly...The gov't wouldn't have a clue what I made, and that is why we have to fight hard for it, but will probably not win. The gov't itself (the libs in particular, although our "heroes" the republicans did such an outstanding job of standing up for our rights that they got booted out) will not stand for not knowing every little thing about me. Because knowledge is power. The only thing that keeps them from breaking down my door, and the door's of most people in this country is the fear that perhaps I have weapons and am not afraid to use them. Once they no longer fear us, then we are doomed to live as the Soviets did for many years, and the Chinese do now. Got off topic on taxes, but to me it is one and the same. We need to wake up and realize that we have lost and are continuing to lose at a rapid rate our freedoms.

Read the book, or go to the website. It doesn't call for no more taxes, but rather a national sales tax that takes out all embedded and other hidden taxes. It makes perfect sense, and would actually reduce our tax burden (including SS and Medicare/Medicaid). However, I agree with Shanstress. It makes too much sense, and our politicians don't have any of that! Neither do they have a backbone when the libs start braying that it hurts the poor (which is a crock of .... because the poor actually get money back from the gov't that they never paid in!)...

This is why the Lord so wants all of us to gain our own testimony instead of relying upon "borrowed light". The church advocates only the Standard Works, Jesus the Christ, Marvelous Work and a Wonder, and a couple others (Miracle of Forgiveness??) as our canon of what we base our beliefs on. All others are considered people's opinions, and we need to balance what they say against what is known in these works, mainly the SW. I personally like Mormon Doctrine, Hugh Nibley's books and lectures, etc. They help me with my testimony and learning, but if they were proven completely wrong it wouldn't change my testimony of the BOM or the PH authority, etc. We sometimes are too much like the Jews in Nephi's and Jesus' time. To quote: 14 But behold, the Jews were a stiffnecked people; and they despised the words of plainness, and killed the prophets, and sought for things that they could not understand. Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by looking beyond the mark, they must needs fall; for God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it. And because they desired it God hath done it, that they may stumble. (Book of Mormon | Jacob 4:14) I love to ponder the what if's, but I have such a hard time loving my neighbor and not wanting to kick the cat when I come home (even though he REALLY deserves it! ) that determining what Pres Young meant is not my most important activity of the day. Neither is trying to really figure out how we got here (evolution, 6 days creation, alien landing), whether I really should or shouldn't eat chocolate because it has more caffiene than the entire state of Texas, or whether or not I will have more than one wife in the eternities because women are just so much more righteous than men. All I need to make sure of is that I do all my duties as father, husband, and PH holder, and I'll trust in HF to tell me whatever else I need to know.

Everyone, Do away with the pain! Go to FairTax.org and look into this. Neal Boortz and John Linder out of Georgia put together a book regarding this tax and it is the best solution out there, bar none. I was skeptical until I read the book, and listened to Neal talk about it on his radio program. It would do away with the IRS in one fell swoop (which is why the gov't will fight this tooth and nail!). Go to the website, write your congressmen and senators (I now get to live in the land of the Hildabeast and Little Chuckie Schumer! AAAUUGGGHHH!) saying you want them to pass this. It will do away with this pain once and for all. Really, this is a great plan.

I too am outraged at the reaction to this, to be honest with you. I have listened once or twice to Imus. I don't like him, just like I don't like Howard Stern. But he wasn't fired for being obnoxious--no, he was fired for making derogatory statements towards blacks. That was his sin. If he had taken off on some fat, white, Christian male he would have been heralded as insightful. But he made fun of the wrong race. Period. And until the blacks wake up and smell the postum and get rid of such race baiters as the Rev Al and Jesse Jackson they will never be taken seriously on anything. Both of these "gentlemen, and I use that term loosely" (to quote Don Henley from "Garden of Eden") are worse by far. The "Rev" Al is responsible for the whole Tawanda Braunley affair in NYC, as well as stirring up race riots just to make sure he is living high on the hog. And Jesse? Never met a photo op he didn't like, and puts out such vitriol that it is amazing. Where are their apologies? Haven't seen them rushing to the aid of the 3 Duke LaCrosse players, or the school for that matter (the coach resigned, the school cancelled the season, etc, per news reports) to talk about the demonization of 3 innocent men. Why? Because the 3 Duke guys are white. End of story. Got what they had coming to them, because subconsciously they wanted to do it because they are racist anyway. Think I'm exaggerating? I am coming from the Atlanta area where this is a real problem. Every time something happens that a spin can be put to it relating to race, it is. And if you are a white male, you are guilty until proven innocent. Should Imus have been fired? I don't know, perhaps. But I was outraged that the reason he was wasn't because he is an idiot anyway, but because he offended blacks. And so CBS and MSNBC, those bastions of PC, caved like the gutless wonders they are. Just like the Republicans in Congress. No backbone, nothing. Always afraid they might offend someone. And that is just sad. And frightening for this country...

LT04, I have been in exactly your shoes. I lost my job over a year ago and was out of work for 7.5 months. The thing is, I felt very strongly that I shouldn't leave the area we were living in (Atlanta area). I was serving in the Bishopric and had had a very personal uncalled for revelation that our ward was going to split and that I would be Bishop. At the time I felt of the new ward, but then all heck broke loose. I was under a lot of pressure at my job (let's just say that I was wrongly accused and the HR manager was very very vindictive) and had the feeling a year before it happened that I would be fired. So I looked and looked for a job in the Atlanta area because I felt that I should stay there. Even my wife was wondering why I didn't look elsewhere, so I told her (in the Celestial Room of the temple, because I hadn't spoken a word of what I had been told to anyone, and I didn't want Satan to know what I had been told). Anyway, then I was let go, and everyone, including the Bishop and the other counselor and my family were telling me that my first priority was to my family and to take a job out of the area if needed. I held out of about 3 months of no money coming in, and then was able to interview for the current job I have (in Western NY). I had to wait an additional 4 months after that first interview with this company before I started (I turned down 2 other jobs in the meantime). So, what does all of this mean? I haven't the foggiest. I do know what I was told. It was unbidden and unexpected. Perhaps the Lord wanted me to stick it out for the experience in my calling as a counselor so that I could learn to be a Bishop (I was able to help out tremendously in the Bishop's place because I was not working and so was much more flexible in helping others in our Ward), and when my faith had been tried enough I was allowed to find this job. Will the other things happen? I believe so. I believe I mistook two distinct revelations to mean happening at the same time. I (obviously) no longer believe that. In fact, when my wife and I were getting blessings regarding this problem, the counselor said, very specifically, that our move was very important to the Lord and where we lived was because I was to serve as a Bishop somewhere, and only the Lord knew where. The Lord also knew that there was no way in heck that we would move unless it were forced upon us because we loved the area and really loved the Ward. So, long story short (too late, right!) the best thing to do is pray with real intent and go forward with faith in what you believe to be the right course. If it isn't, the Lord will let you know either with a voice or probably a feeling (kind of dark and questioning, you know?) and you can do a course correction. I have learned that in many instances the Lord doesn't care too much about these things, and we need to learn to trust our own judgement. He will step in if it isn't right and let us know.

It all gets back to having faith. Period. We can show evidence upon evidence that it is true, and you can argue back that it doesn't convince youl. I have read Bro Nibley's books from his classes and the depth and breadth of the BOM is unbelievable, certainly more than any "hick from the upper NY sticks" could ever imagine. It stands the tests of time, offers a spirit that is unbelievably reassuring and calming. But if you don't want to believe, no matter what we tell you, you won't believe it. That is what faith is all about. Remember the Savior's parable about Lazarus and the rich man. When the rich man asked the Lord to send an angel to warn his brothers so that they wouldn't suffer a similar fate as he did, the Lord told him that if they wouldn't accept Moses and the prophets an angel wasn't going to matter a hill of beans. It is the same for you. You are asking for a certain sign, and although I see them abundantly, they are signs that strengthen my faith because I already believe. And more reading makes me believe more. I agree that the similarities are reassuring. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He has told his children from the time of Adam to obey his commandments, love one another, believe in Christ and his atonement and resurrection, and you will have a happy life. The world will ridicule you for your beliefs, and life will throw its share of crud your way, but you will be at peace and happy. The BOM simply testifies again that Jesus is the Christ and that we need to obey his commandments and take upon us his name. So does the OT and so does the NT and so does the Pearl of GP and the D&C. Those that look to enlighten us poor brainwashed Mormons have nothing better to do. The BOM is true. I know it. And that can't be taken from me. Now it is up to you to determine if you believe it based simply upon the witness you get from the Holy Ghost that it is true. Nothing else really matters other than that witness.

For the most part they are in the "hall class", which means they want to stand or sit and talk with people rather than attend class. It is true that many go teach during the 2nd hour, but I found, during my time in the Bishopric and as Sunday School President, that many like to sit and gab. We used to kind of run people into class, but it went off and on. It got to be a problem when the adults in the hall made such a noise that the primary kids had to come out and tell them to be reverent!

In reading some of the responses we need to realize that the government is NOT where we should place our trust. GW has taken on an aura of a religion (worship of Mother Earth) and we need to realize that not one of these "environmentalists" have the good of the earth, or more particularly, the US, in mind. It is about control of our lives, and we need to be very careful of how things are worded so as to determine the true motives behind the actions. They are so subtle, much as Zeezrom was, being very learned in how to talk and influence the masses that don't want to think. I mean, who can be against clean air or water? I certainly am not. But I don't believe that gov't should be the one that determines what is and isn't clean. Cars are so much cleaner than before, so what does the EPA do? They decide that CO2 is a pollutant, so that you will feel guilty for driving your car around. What most don't realize is that roughly 1 out of every 6 jobs in the country rely upon the auto industry in some way. Why do you think that gov't wants to control them so badly? If they can, then they can control the jobs/wages/lifestyles of 15-17% of the population. They also don't tell you that the gas from all the cattle and other animals far far outweigh the CO2 emissions of every car there is. I am a conservationist. I am pro-hunting, pro-fishing, etc. To me, it is stupid to pollute because it destroys the beauty of nature. I love being outdoors. But I believe in moderation in all things, and the earth is ours to subdue. Period. So I get very leery about those that think they know me and that I need controlling. We are losing our freedoms in this country, and they are eroding at a faster and faster clip because we don't wake up and smell the postum!

All of the GAs gave great talks, ones that needed to be given. However, Elder Oaks seems to be the one that tackles the difficult issues in a very direct manner that leaves no one in the dark as to what should be. His talk on pornography was the same way: hard hitting, and really, really stuck it to the women of the church when he stated, basically, when you dress immodestly "you become pornography to those that see you". The time for soft speech is over, I'm afraid, much like Jacob when he addressed the Nephites. Only blunt speech will get thru, and even then not to everyone that needs it. Another dead on talk was Elder Bednar's talk on choosing to be offended.

Read Michael Crighton's (sp?) book on global warming State of Fear. I was a skeptic before: now I am a confirmed "global warming atheist". It is a bunch of hooey dreamed up by people that truly want to rule our lives and destroy this country. That is what it really gets down to. Does anyone remember the argument about Eugenics? The one the Germans perfected so well during the reign of the Nazis? There were plenty of "AlGores" arguing in favor of it as well. But it was debunked as a load of manure. 50 years from now the same will be said of GW. Also read the website "JunkScience.com". Another eye opener. Do you know that they were growing vegetables in Greenland in the 1200s-1300s? It was hotter then than it is now. And that fact has been taken out of the latest UN "finding" because it doesn't jive with the PC crowd. And now the Supreme Court has given carte blanche authority to the EPA to ruin the auto industry in this country (as if they weren't doing enough stupid things already!) with their finding that CO2 is a pollutant! Okay everyone, STOP BREATHING! You are polluting the air!