a-train

MORMONS BEWARE: There is an anti-mormon saying that Mormons believe in a different Jesus than the true Jesus. The war of semantics is Satan's game and he knows well the tendency in LDS to say: 'Your Jesus is different from my Jesus.' Those with less familiarity with us will take that as a confession that we reject the Jesus of the New Testament and have supposed some 'other' Jesus to be the Christ. Let us not engage in such a confusing game of semantics that serves only to arouse suspicion and frustration. We declare boldly that there is but one and only one Jesus of Nazereth and that He is the 'God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible'. (Duet. 10:17) Jesus is 'the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, [who came] down from heaven among the children of men, and [dwelt] in a tabernacle of clay, and [went] forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.' And he cast out devils, or the evil spirits which [dwelt] in the hearts of the children of men. And lo, he [suffered] temptations, and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it be unto death; for behold, blood cometh from every pore, so great was his anguish for the wickedness and the abominations of his people. And he [is] called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother [is] called Mary. And lo, he came unto his own, that salvation might come unto the children of men even through faith on his name; and even after all this they [considered] him a man, and [said] that he hath a devil, and [scourged] him, and [crucified] him. And he [arose] the third day from the dead; and behold, he standeth to judge the world; and behold, all these things are done that a righteous judgment might come upon the children of men. For behold, and also his blood atoneth for the sins of those who have fallen by the transgression of Adam, who have died not knowing the will of God concerning them, or who have ignorantly sinned. But wo, wo unto him who knoweth that he rebelleth against God! For salvation cometh to none such except it be through repentance and faith on the Lord Jesus Christ.' (Mosiah 3:5-12) 'And moreover, I say unto you, that there shall be no other name given nor any other way nor means whereby salvation can come unto the children of men, only in and through the name of Christ, the Lord Omnipotent.' (Mosiah 3:17) Let us suffice to rejoice in our brethren's belief in the same LORD Jesus Christ and be willing to quickly forgive any misconception we perceive in them. We too may learn many things about the Saviour that will seem surprising and new to us, and indeed I can say that I continue to have that experience. Let us rejoice in every level of faith and understanding of our LORD among men and build on that foundation as the LORD has commanded us. -a-train

It really sounds like you are still waiting on a serious witness. It sounds like you have a lot of book smarts, but you can't look at something and say: 'Here. Here is where God actually spoke to me and I know He did.' Is this right? I know this may sound tough, but here is my method. When I am not feeling full of faith and inspiration and I am praying and trying to get the Holy Spirit, I ask myself what I am in need to repair in my life. What am I doing or not doing that could slow my progress? I list as much of this as possible and repent of it. I mention it all in my prayers and give it all to the LORD. I endeavor to actually make changes and I find that He often helps me decide where to start (my list of things to work on is extremely long, so I often wonder where to start). Take an inventory, a personal worthiness inventory. Make an honest count of all you have and don't have. If there are some missing essentials, THERE is the problem. THAT is the hold up. Now don't think that I have any opinion other than you are so close to translation that your feet don't touch the floor. I am not inclined whatsoever to assert that you have even a blemish of guile or pride. But if you are anything like myself, do the inventory and repent accordingly. Less than perfect truly, -a-train

History of the Church Vol. 3 Intro XXVI: "Here follows [Joseph Smith's] statesman-like word, published throughout the United States in 1844-eleven years before Ralph Waldo Emerson made substantially the same recommendation, and for which the philosopher received no end of praise:- 'Petition, also, ye goodly inhabitants of the slave states, your legislators to abolish slavery by the year 1850, or now, and save the abolitionist from reproach and ruin, and infamy and shame. Pray Congress to pay every man a reasonable price for his slaves out of the surplus revenue arising from the sale of the public lands, and from the deduction of pay from the members of Congress. Break off the shackles from the poor black man, and hire him to labor like other human beings; for an hour of virtuous liberty is worth a whole eternity of bondage.'" I cracked open the old History of the Church volume set and stumbled on this tonight. I love these books. Now it is that last line that makes me wonder. The joy and blessings of granting one hour of liberty in a virtuous and generous manner is worth an eternity of labor from a slave. Regardless, his advice was clear. From an article in the Messenger and Advocate published in April 1836 (full text on page 436-440 of History of the Church vol. 2) the prophet was clear that he was not an Abolitionist. The article is too lengthy for me to type, but I would definitely suggest reading it. It is very informative. The prophet realized the possibility of the issue to bring about bloodshed and violence if the North pressed on it's efforts to force the South to abolish slavery. It would seem also that he understood that the efforts of the Church were much different, much grander, broader, and greater than the political and legal processes of the United States; for this, a Church growing far passed the borders of this nation need not be consumed by the local affairs of politics and government. Indeed, the abolition of slavery throughout the world is NOT within the scope of the Church's duties, but imagine what a great difference it would make if more of the world came into the Church. Perhaps we would not even be having any difficulty over such an issue. -a-train

Crimson, If I may ask. What is keeping you from Church for 18 months? Work or something? -a-train

QUESTION: Who anointed her ox with consecrated oil and blessed it during movements to the west? I read the account in Church History once, (about 12 years ago) but cannot seem to find it again. There is definitely an account in the Church History volumes of a sister who called upon the brethren to give a priesthood blessing to her animal. They refused. She asked that she be provided with consecrated oil and after some persuading it was granted. The account went on to say that she anointed and blessed the beast by the laying on of hands herself and it regained strength and continued the journey. Anyone know this? Now I am on a mission. I'll try to find it. -a-train

Snow, Sorry, the ref has spoken and you were second. No points. They are hereby awarded to Emma. Emma, AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Please, search deep and forgive your humble servant of his shortsighted ignorance and overlooking haste. I read your post and loved it, but I didn't follow all the links. I did realize once I went to blacklds.org that this was one of your sources. Please, please, please, forgive me and I'll try to make it up to you. GOD BLESS!! -a-train By the way, I know your not an anti-mormon. You can't be. Real antis are trying to show their proof, you seem to be honestly looking for proof.

Snow, You just gave me my new favorite website! Thanks! Loving It! I am a whitey, a total snowflake. But, I went to school in the inner-city and served my mission in North Carolina. Most of the families I taught and baptized were black. When I was maybe 8 or 9, a Sunday-School teacher first told me that blacks were fence-sitters in the pre-mortal world. Of course it wasn't in any manual, the notion wasn't really part of any lesson. The man simply took it upon himself to teach the concept. I thought about that and wondered. It was later in my life, after my rebellion and then conversion, in my study of the scriptures that I came across the account of the man born blind in John 9. I realized that if that man could have been born blind without reason of sin from either him or his parents, then I see no reason to assume that anyone else born into any circumstance, good or bad, white or black, rich or poor, or otherwise came into such because of righteousness or iniquity in the premortal world or elsewhere. I am glad to see the people from all races, tongues, and backgrounds are accepting the gospel and supporting one another. I believe that is the true meaning of the restitution of all things. Whether the reason for any restriction of the priesthood to blacks was the will of God or the mistaken racist lack of understanding of Church leadership, I know not nor care, I only rejoice that the LORD's will is that the message of the Gospel and the blessings thereof are extended to all the world and the LORD has made it clear. -a-train

Absolutely. If God told you not to join the LDS church, believe Him. If he revealed to you that Joseph Smith was not a true prophet and that God had not spoken to him, believe it. Do whatever the LORD commands and believe all He tells you. I have full faith that He will never lead you astray. I must say that the LORD has told me that He DID speak to Joseph Smith, that the Book of Mormon IS true, that Jesus of Nazereth IS the Messiah, and many other great things. I will make no assumption that you are anything less than completely honest and full of integrity. Do as the LORD commands. As for me, I intend to do the same and until the LORD tells me otherwise I will believe what he has already told me and continues to tell me, that the LDS message is true. GOD BLESS -a-train PS yeah, there already was a thread for this.

Missionaries baptized my mother's family when she was a teenager. My father found the Church while in the military. They met at a Church function while still new members. They were married in the Provo temple. I was born about a year later while my mother was still 19 years old. My Dad was murdered when I was six. My mother fell away from the Church and I rebelled harshly in my early teens but underwent a powerful conversion around my 17th birthday. It is difficult to really convey what happened. I simply became a little curious about the scriptures and began reading. At the time I was basically uncertain if there even was a God at all. I kept trying to convince myself that there is no way I could have just so happened to have been born into the correct religion. I read just about every anti-mormon thing I could find. I began studying in the public library and I read the scriptures like an addict. I determined to attempt to extricate myself from every evil practice in order to be worthy of any revelation or whatever. I wanted a real answer to my prayers and something concrete, a manifestation, some sort of communication from God or something. Friends of mine in school began to make fun of me because I was 'turnin' all Christian' or 'becoming a Bible thumper'. They would say: 'He doesn't have fun anymore, he just reads the Bible.' I kept getting the burning in the bosom accompanied by strokes of logic, like I would suddenly say in my mind the most profound thing. I would then ask myself: 'How did I know that?' What shocked me most was when I would have such a manifestation and later read a talk or something that almost said the exact same thing. I eventually read D&C 9:8 for the first time. It was like the greatest thing I had ever seen. It described the exact thing that was happening to me. Once I was convinced there was a God, that Jesus is the Christ (is God), the scriptures were true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet and the LORD gave great revelation through him and the LDS leaders after him, I was very concerned with my own salvation. I was constantly repenting. I went to my Bishop. I literally wondered if I had gone too far, as if I could not be forgiven. I am not one who cries much. My mother had me looked at by a therapist when I was young because she wondered if I was dealing with things properly though I never cried. One night I felt the burning in me as strong as ever and the thought came into my mind: 'Don't you know that Satan's most diligent engagement is to deny the Atonement of Jesus Christ? Don't you know he wants you to sink into dispare and give up? Believe him not.' I came closer to crying then than in a long time. Then in the middle of some night I read this: 'Marvel not that all mankind, yea, men and women, all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, must be born again; yea, born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state, to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters; And thus they become new creatures; and unless they do this, they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God. I say unto you, unless this be the case, they must be cast off; and this I know, because I was like to be cast off. Nevertheless, after wading through much tribulation, repenting nigh unto death, the Lord in mercy hath seen fit to snatch me out of an everlasting burning, and I am born of God. My soul hath been redeemed from the gall of bitterness and bonds of iniquity. I was in the darkest abyss; but now I behold the marvelous light of God. My soul was racked with eternal torment; but I am snatched, and my soul is pained no more. I rejected my Redeemer, and denied that which had been spoken of by our fathers; but now that they may foresee that he will come, and that he remembereth every creature of his creating, he will make himself manifest unto all. Yea, every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess before him.' This came to me so powerfully that I struggled to see the words for the tears in my eyes. God touched me there and spoke these words to me that night. I will never forget it. I wept. Today I am the only active member of my immediate family. A cousin of mine is also active, but I rarely see him, he is out of state. My wife was baptized about a year after I met her and we were sealed in the San Diego temple a little over a year after that. She has no family in the Church whatsoever. I can rarely get through a ten minute period without a thought about the LORD. I am not the best man I know. I have many weaknesses, but I can say I know God lives and retain my integrity. -a-train

I have always been a fan of the phrase: '[God] maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.' (Matt. 5:45) I recently read a scripture that I am certain I have read many times. But this time it was a strong impression on me and seems to sharpen the meaning of the above statement. Captain Moroni said: 'For the Lord suffereth the righteous to be slain that his justice and judgment may come upon the wicked; therefore ye need not suppose that the righteous are lost because they are slain; but behold, they do enter into the rest of the Lord their God.' (Alma 60:13) We have all heard the story of Job and have been taught that the assumption is erroneous that pain and suffering is an indication of personal wickedness. But, let us understand both the words of Captain Moroni and the example in Jesus of Nazereth, that even torture and loss of life do not indicate the slightest inkling of individual transgression or iniquity and should never be automatically considered a punishment for sins that could have been avoided if they had not been commited. Oh yeah, A dashboard is called so because the old carriages had a board in front of the driver to prevent stones kicked by the horse's hooves from dashing him, it was therefore called a dashboard. And... Our troops build ramps in Iraq! -a-train

Mamacat, Thanks for bringing that up. It seems that every few years or so I witness a member who 'finds' that passage and suddenly makes great efforts to remove meat from their diet entirely. And for each Latter-Day Saint who makes attempts to follow such counsel and eat meat sparingly, I applaud you. I am one of those. I typically only eat meat when it is served to me in public settings such at Grandmas or Christmas. However, I have known some members who have judged others for their disregard for this portion of the Word of Wisdom. Let that not be. Let us make no assumption that meat is sin. Furthermore, let us not suppose that the impression upon our minds here given by the LORD should be a gross rejection of meat and/or the notion that it should only be utilized during times of great tribulation and starvation. Let us remember Paul's designation of those who are 'commanding to abstain from meats' as those who 'shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils' (1 Tim. 4) The notion herein given us by the LORD can be applied throughout our lifestyle. We are to live conservatively and in great thanksgiving to God. Those who ardently make attemps to enforce a meat ban are as the Pharisees of ancient Israel who became a law unto themselves and, in their judgemental and prideful state, were grossly out of the LORD's way. -a-train

Thanks for the compliments -a-train

I agree Train. That's why I have difficulty believing that there was a need for a "restoration" or a complete "apostasy." Yes, I know. Your logic is sound and correct. The trouble is, there are many LDS that are a little mixed up about The Great Apostasy, this event should NOT be understood as the devil or the wicked destroying God's Kingdom. The Primitive Christian Church was NOT destroyed by the wicked. It was taken from among the people by the LORD, not by the Devil. -a-train

The Kingdom of God on earth cannot be thwarted nor destroyed by the wicked. Although I am not aware of any authoritative assertion that the priesthood would not go to those of certain lineage until the 1970's for the purpose of the preservation of the Church, if we are to imagine that this was the reason for such a strategy and had it not been inacted a great destruction would have fallen on the LDS people, we can say that the LORD in His wisdom kept this from occuring through this, His own means. Still, this is all speculation. We have no such authoritative answer and what little we do have is somewhat ambiguous and even Brigham Young said he didn't fully understand the particulars of the issue. However, he and others all said that the priesthood would eventually be restored to all and the LDS people looked forward to that time forward until the announcement came that the time had arrived. This is no different from the looking forward by the LDS people for the rest of the writings on the golden plates to be revealed, or for the Church to move it's headquarters back east again, or for the missionaries to be able to serve in every land on earth. There will be surprising news from Salt Lake, from the First Presidency and from the Twelve again some day. The LDS people expect it. We know that the potential exists every day. Those who are faithful are working hard to be ready for these types of things. -a-train

All kidding aside, the 'c' word is useless in my opinion. It is just as useless as 'unorthodox'. They are relative terms that seem to only present a sense of spiritual superiority in the minds of the so-called 'orthodox'. The common usage of 'cult' has become nothing more than an ignorant meaningless slander. It's only purpose is generally to instill fear and suspicion. The image of a deceptive leadership coercing a gullible following into ridiculous folly and depravation is brought to mind by the dark feel and sound of the word. Mormon's could easily say they are the only real 'orthodox' group. They could go around calling everyone else a 'cult'. But what purpose would these designations serve? Would we have much success in our missionary efforts if we went about claiming to be the most righteous people in the world? Are we the most righteous? If the LDS do possess the truth and the Restoration of the Church really has been done by the LORD Himself, then we stand far more accountable than the rest of the world. Are we obeying the commandments we have from the LORD better than the world obeys what commandments they have? So call us a cult, call us unorthodox, say we are not a cult, say we are orthodox, none of this matters. It brings no edification to the mind, for any real meaning conveyed in these terms is lost in great ambiguity and relativity. The term 'cult' only shows a prideful and bitter spirit in the soul of the body whose tongue lashes it against his fellow beings. Although it once held true meaning and could be used without benefit of such ill feelings, the strong connection has been made permanent and the term has been ruined, just as the name 'Hitler' and the symbol of the swastika. As far as I'm concerned, 'cult' has already become an 'N'-word. -a-train

It is interesting, all of the Jewish sites I can find that speak of Jewish marriage traditions and ceremonies make no mention whatsoever of the brides handling lights or anything, nor the bride for that matter. Only Christian sites make the assertion that ancient Jewish weddings had such tradition as a procession of lights by bridesmaides. Anyone have anything authoritative there? I also recently read that polygamy was not outlawed within traditional Judism until as late as the 11th Century when Rabbeinu Gershom instituted a ban. Polygamy, however, continues among some Jews today. The state of Israel has banned polygamy, but allows provisions for polygamous marriages consumated before the formation of the law or wed in foreign lands. -a-train

Exactly. I once heard a Presbyterian minister claim the Essenes had openly taught the hating of enemies, but I haven't had the opportunity to verify that or study it myself. I have also heard the sect wasn't interested in proselytizing, but I wouldn't take that to imply any hatred on their part, think about the great deal of our modern believers from various sects who possess little passion to be missionaries. We don't impute hatred to the 'un'-missionaries for their lack of zeal. Still, the hating of enemies is very prevalent, though unwritten, among the world today. -a-train

You guys could go follow the cops around on police chases... Do geneaology and pretend your solving crimes. Go to a handgun range and shoot Walther PPKs or P99s (007's pistols). Look into renting any of the following vehicles for the night: Aston Martin DB5 Little Nellie Aston Martin DBS Lotus Esprit Submarine Lotus Esprit Turbo Acrostar Mini-Jet Aston Martin Volante BMW Z3 Roadster BMW 750i BMW Z8 Q Boat Aston Martin Vanquish Jaguar XKR Watch any of the old spy movies as part of the date. Find a martial arts teacher to do a special night in his dojo for you guys. Make dry ice bombs. Take a helicopter trip and pretend your on a mission. Play Mission Impossible on xbox. GOD BLESS! Enjoy! -a-train

Oh Dr. T, I wasn't saying YOU were promoting the idea of salvation in sin. I am sorry if you thought I was calling you out. I am not picking on you at all. I apologize if I sounded like I was directed at you. I like the comments from David Guzik. There are two very common misconceptions about the Law of Moses in modern Christian (and LDS) circles: 1. We are to totally abandon the Law of Moses in every way, it's precepts are banished. 2. The old law started with Adam, not Moses. Many have trouble with the idea that Christ's ministry among the Jews was a restoration. 'A restoration of what?' is asked; a restoration of those things taken from the Jews at the time the Law of Moses was given. The Ten Commandments were part of the higher law which was followed by Adam and the prophets before Moses broke the stone tablets of the Decalogue at Sinai. What is further interesting is that many have called Christ's 'Anithesis to the Law' as such, but a careful look reveals that one of the anithesises he brought was not an antipode to any Law of Moses, but said: 'Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy' (Matt 5:43). This is not in the Law of Moses, but could have been a prevalent doctrine among the Jews at that time. It is clear that Jesus wanted also to restore truth to those that had accepted such false doctrine. For he wanted 'to make it clear that He does not oppose the Law of Moses, but He will free it from the way the Pharisees and Scribes wrongly interpreted the law.' -David Guzik -a-train

Don't get me wrong, the fixation I am speaking of is not modern. It was the fixation on black slavery during the time of it's existance I am referring to. It would seem there came a point wherein people thought that blacks should be slaves because of skin color and should therefore remain slaves, meanwhile they were willing to make all other men free, now that was racist. Thus, the 'fixation'. They were somehow ready to free all men, but held on with a deep fixation to black and only black slavery. It is because of the historical reality of this fixation that we still seem to have a strong connection between race and slavery in the minds of people today. However, that connection translates to the logic that anyone that wasn't ardently against slavery was a racist. This is simply not true. As was mentioned in the link Emma gave, slaves of other races were not outside the minds of the people in those days. There were many that didn't hold the 'fixation' of black slavery, but saw slaves as a multi-racial group who were slaves because of reasons other than skin color. -a-train

It is interesting to hear a person say something like: 'Back in the old days, they didn't view slavery the way we do today.' Sometimes I wonder if that is even more true than we give credit. We imagine people didn't view slaves worthy of freedom and rights. But, I also wonder if slavery itself was viewed much differently. The famous speech by Brigham Young to the Utah Legislature contained language that made it seem like his understanding of the proper scenario of a servant is that they were well cared for and provided for in every need as were the children of the household, living clean and well maintained lives. This is a very different image than that of slaves sleeping in shacks in the fields eating almost nothing in filth and rags while their masters mistreat them with every conceivable abuse and live like a king in a palace. Furthermore, race and slavery are two different subjects, they have only been crashed together by the fixation of America on black slavery. Slavery has existed among all the races throughout the aeons. The noble ideals of equality and freedom are highly celebrated by modern America just as they were in early America, but the notion of slavery and it's relation to those wonderful principles has changed in the past couple of centuries. Let us not assume that any of our forefathers whether LDS or not were automatically racists because of any ambivalence toward slavery. -a-train

Anybody got any details on the validity and accuracy of that quote? If Joseph Smith really said exactly that, then he made some extremely correct predictions. The Republican party didn't form for many years after his death. -a-train

Yo, Ya did? was a joke. I was asking you if you were wanting to see more people post there answers. I thought that is why you copied the orginal thread. -a-train

Now this would fly in the face of the old notion that a man need not worry about following any law, but he need only believe in the existance of Jesus and he is saved. There are many who are of the opinion that life has become much easier now with the coming of Christ at the meridian of time. While I have a reason to agree, it is not the reason of disregard for any constraint of lifestyle. These assume that we need only have a slight movement of mind to do righteousness, a man can simply say 'I confess Jesus' and he is in the narrow path while he can live an outward life of apostasy and sinfulness. It is the idea that the old law looked only at the outward body, but the new covenant looks exclusively at the heart and takes no notice of any exterior expression or action. This belief is congruent with the concept that Christ came to destroy the law and not to fulfill. But, we should all know better. Jesus said 'thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.' (Mark 12:30) Now how can a man do this with his lips only? This would require far more than a single confession of Jesus' divinity and a return to the service of mammon. Now we have the Antithesis to the Law as they are called by many scholars, but let us not suppose that appellation designates that those teachings in the Sermon on the Mount could in some manner allow man to shed innocent blood and remain guiltless if he does so without anger or calling the deceased a fool. Let us not imagine that a man can commit adultery and remain blameless so long as he doesn't lust after the woman in his heart. Nor do we want to assume that a man can make oaths among the wicked as long as his doing so is only 'Yea, yea'; or 'Nay, nay'. Let us not think that we can reap the rewards of the plunder of our fellow man and turn a blind eye to injustice when we turn the other cheek. And, let us not suppose that we can love our neighbors and enemies and only pray for them in our hearts, but withhold our substance and live in gluttony while they starve. The expression of the Saviour in both word and deed was not that God nor His will nor His mind had changed one whit, but that the understanding of the people must change to the understanding of God. The Saviour's fulfilling of the Law of Moses did not free men from righteousness, nor loose us from lawfulness, but in His doing He gave us the truth about how to really fulfill the law in our own lives. He showed us the truth that the law of God is not only outward expression, but the total submission of mind and body to God will bring a man into the truth which shall make him free. For, said He, 'If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.' (John 8:31-32) And: 'If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine.' (John 7:17) I am completely comfortable in believing that the expressions of God in both scripture and by the Holy Spirit directly can give meaning to us as we are capable of receiving, but as we master precepts already extended to us, deeper meaning and truth will be shown to us in the same Word of God. For Jesus did not say that only reading the scriptures will make us aware of the truth, but 'If any man will do His will'. -a-train

The father of one of my best friends growing up (who wasn't LDS) was a major John Birch Society adherent. It seemed that no conversation could be had with this man without benefit of Conspiracy Theory talk. While I don't believe that there is a single earthly clandestine conspiracy of men behind all that is evil in the world, I do definitely believe that Satan is behind all evil. Furthermore, I don't doubt one bit that deception, plunder, and a general corruption exists throughout the U.S. government on levels from the smallest localities to the highest national offices. I believe the wicked are far from united. And the divided kingdom of the devil will fall and great shall be the fall thereof. I personally cannot rule out any possiblity and see little need to do so. We are the saints of God. We are not here to fight the enemy through engagements of war and go about enforcing our own interests with bloody horror and military force. It is certain that the inability of our government to protect us exists and its seeming constant state of warfare in distant lands is a sign of at a minimum a gross preoccupation. Our duty as Saints is to do the work of the LORD and let him fight our battles. Remember the Jews? Was their military cunning and strategy what kept them from the spoil of the gentiles? Did the Nephites keep themselves out of destruction with nothing more than their armies? It is righteousness that qualifies a people for the protection of God. We should work to know the engagements of secret combinations and purge them from among us, but such knowledge will only be granted us if we are worthy to receive it. Otherwise, we will be left to the spoil as were the prideful covenant breakers we read of in the scriptures. -a-train