AnnieCarvalho

as I said above, Folk Prophet, "I've fallen short, I know. I'm going to try harder."

If you feel I've bullied you personally, Folk Prophet, I apologize.

I think the difference is in this paragraph: Bullies use unsubstantiated personal attacks to denigrate their victims. Often, they make fun of their victim’s intelligence, twist his/her words, get everyone to laugh at him, and in doing so isolates and degrades their target. In this way, their victim is neutralized, and serves as a strong reminder to everyone of the bully’s or the bully GROUP’s power. For example, if a person points out the flaws and weaknesses of another's arguments, is that "bullying"? No. If a person brings his or her own experiences or quotes scripture or studies in substantiation of his/her opinion, is that bullying? No. If more than two people disagree with a given poster, are they "ganging up" on him/her in a bullying manner, or are they simply expressing their (perhaps deeply held) opinion to the contrary? No.

No, I don't believe that. There is a difference between bullying and disagreeing. People can disagree in a kind and respectful manner.

Thanks for clarifying that. I still feel my post is valid, but I'll go add a sentence.

I feel people are twisting her words. She said "After laughing at people who called the Church a cult all my life, now I'm feeling like I'm actually in one. I do not believe that the LDS Church is a cult! I love the Church. " There are many definitions of the word "cult" and she states that may not be the correct word. The British Dictionary definitions for cult include the following. The last definition may be the way she is FEELING, that certain members of her branch or ward are pushing her husband to do more than he is physically and emotionally capable of doing and still maintain a healthy family life.FEELINGS aren't facts. They are FEELINGS and they are valid, no matter how far from the facts they seem.This is not the first time I've heard this complaint. LDS members have a pretty high rate of burnout, in my experience. And a burnt out Priesthood Leader or his wife are not good to anyone. They certainly don't need more guilt poured on. cult /kʌlt/ noun1.a specific system of religious worship, esp with reference to its rites and deity2.a sect devoted to such a system3.a quasi-religious organization using devious psychological techniques to gain and control adherents

I spent some time in the wee hours this morning thinking about forum bullying. Maybe some on the forum, myself included, might benefit from the information I found online about forum bullying, definitions, and solutions. * * * Forum bullies are self-appointed protectors of their own sometimes twisted truth and detail. They are belligerent, in-your-face, combative, sarcastic, cynical, projecting an air of superiority, and have an extensive vocabulary they use to cow those they are addressing. Verbal bullying is their main joy in life. They thrive on it. Most forum bullies are compensating for something lacking in their life, something they are missing such as respect, friends, social graces, sex, etc. Maybe they’re PO’d because they’re bald or short. Maybe nobody validates them in the real world. Or maybe they’re just nasty people who didn’t get enough love as a child. Forum bullies feel compelled to address every single thread they disagree with. They are like a moth to a flame. They MUST respond because the other guy is an idiot and doesn’t know what he or she is talking about, and someone (meaning them) must right the injustice done and squash the false information being disseminated by THAT idiot. They continue to come back and back and back until their opponent either gives up and walks away out of disgust or sadness. Forum bullies probably don’t have much of a life and not many true friends. If they have a wife or husband, or children, they most likely treat that person the way they treat people online. Bullies use unsubstantiated personal attacks to denigrate their victims. Often, they make fun of their victim’s intelligence, twist his/her words, get everyone to laugh at him, and in doing so isolates and degrades their target. In this way, their victim is neutralized, and serves as a strong reminder to everyone of the bully’s or the bully GROUP’s power. Bullies rule through fear. Most forum members will sit back in silence because they can’t - or aren’t willing - or aren’t emotionally prepared or just don’t want to deal with an attack on THEM by the forum bully. That fear strengthens the bully. He/she knows nobody is going to stand up and challenge him/her. Bullies usually attack weak or new targets. If you come to a forum with a heavy heart, deep concerns, uncertain, or emotionally vulnerable, and there is a bully present, you more than likely will end up on a serving plate. New members are a bully’s favorite because they are new, unproven, and do not yet have a support system. They are alone – and therefore easier to hunt-down and DESTROY! It reminds me of putting a new hen into my henhouse. The leader of the pack will attack her, chasing her away from food and water, not allowing her to roost, pushing her to the bottom of the flock, killing her if she resists. Why are people bullies? There might be many reasons. Perhaps that is the way they were reared, being exposed to violence and rudeness. They weren’t reared with manners or common sense. They get a thrill out of verbally beating up people online for no reason except their own twisted entertainment and feelings of superiority. For them, beating the heck out of someone is like getting points of power in a video game. The most common reason bullies prevail is because nobody will stand up to them or report them. Bullies are often cowards who are full of talk; immature adults who never quite grew up and need to fill an empty void in their hearts by beating people up online without being challenged. How to Deal with Forum Bullies SPEAK UP! Complain to the owners of the forum. Every single time you see a bully step out of line, complain. Report it. Do not get involved with name calling or sink to the level of the Forum Bully When you see a Forum Bully attack someone, report it, every single time. Do not stop. Eventually, and hopefully, they will cease or be evicted. Ask yourself – why are you here? Is there benefit to staying? No? Well, before you leave, ask yourself if it might be worth staying? It might be that if just a few “nice people” start standing up to the bullies, the entire tone of the forum could brighten and transform into a place where people can find Christ’s love instead of an emotional or verbal beating. Or maybe not. Maybe it’s just not worth the effort to get involved. You have to choose. Do you really want the forum to be an arena where people with problems are “put in their place? “ Or do you want this to be a safe place where people with problems can come to bounce off ideas, maybe find solutions to things that are eating at them? Do you want this to be a place where investigators can rub shoulders with real members of the church, and get answer so their questions, even if you’ve heard those questions a million times in anti-LDS literature? Even if you suspect them of having ulterior motives. Even if... If you want this to be a safe place, a friendly place, a place of Christ-like love, then maybe you might want to lock arms and speak up more often when you see people being bullied. Will I become a member of the thousands who have tossed up their hands and left? I hope not. I feel there is great value here and a wonderful opportunity to be a firm, but kind, example of a Latter Day Saint. I've fallen short, I know. I'm going to try harder. (edited so as not to point fingers)

Yes, and I imagine there will be many self-righteous people who are gobsmacked to find out they've been tossed out with the tares!

Gosh, I didn't feel she was "railing against the church" - she was reaching out for some help. Instead she gets verbally slapped upside the head and told she needs an attitude adjustment. (I'm editing and re editing because what I WANT to say isn't very nice) Pam gave the best advice in my opinion: We can't help others effectively if we aren't taking care of ourselves as well. I think we can get to a point that we just have to say no to some of these activities. Especially if it is affecting our own family unit.

Seems like you may feel like your husband is getting guilted into all these activities. I hear you - you and he both are feeling burnt out! It's easy to get burnt out and there is only so much a person can do. How many official callings does he have? I think you and your husband might want to have a sit down serious prayer and talk session. I think you made the right choice in visiting your sister. Perhaps making a written list of "What is scheduled for next month" and then sitting down with him and prioritizing it might help? Maybe something like 1) God, 2) Family, 3) Church Activities But then, these are just things I think... in the end, the two of you have to decide what's most important to you and your family.

Most of the people who are screaming about this issue have no association with the Church whatsoever. Those people need to sit down and mind their own business, in my opinion. They've never been members, have never had a desire to be members, and so this has no affect on them at all. They need to look for another church if they are seeking. But there are some I know of who will be affected by this because they have been active members. I honestly haven't seen much posted by those people. I imagine they're prayerfully considering what this means to them, rather than holding picket signs. Many of those people, I believe, don't have an 'agenda' except perhaps they're afraid for their children and feeling pressed to find answers. One of my questions, for instance, about a couple I know of who have adopted children, and who have been active in the Church, would be what it would mean if the only parents the children have ever known were forced to "divorce" or split up in order to stay active. Seems to me a loving gay family might be better than no family at all. But maybe that's not true. These are the things that bother me about the decision. I'm not saying the Church is wrong. I support the decision so please don't assume I do not. I am not sure I LIKE the decision, but I support it. I just am wondering what those who ARE affected by this are thinking . . .

WooHOO! I just uploaded 183 photographs of headstones from Capel y ffin cemetery in Wales. Thank you so much for telling me this! I have lots of photos from other countries I've visited also. This is awesome! Now i have 7 days to transcribe them... yikes!

Whoah! This is a direct answer to prayer! When I travel, I often go to cemeteries and take photos of headstones. Just a hobby of mine. I have probably over a hundred photos of two cemeteries in Wales and one in Spain. I didn't know what to do with them. Thanks!

I didn't even know they still had pop tabs - never drink soda. But those are pretty cool. I did a Pinterest search and there are some really interesting items on there made from pop tabs, even gowns and purses.

I'm sorry that happened to you, JoJoBag. I don't sit around and mull over it, and it's nothing I think about every day or week or month. But I agree, certain things trigger those memories, and learning to trust, well, I'm not sure that ever happens completely. I don't think a person ever "gets over it" any more than they do any other seriously traumatic event that wounds the soul of a child. I felt this video was very healing, if for no other reason than to hear someone from the Church say things that made me feel like they understood my situation.

Today, this video and a few articles on the lds.org website were brought to my attention by a kind person on this forum. I had never seen this talk before and I was brought to tears as it hit home. Everybody needs to watch this. Everybody. I was especially touched at about 18:00 where she specifically speaks to Teachers and Leaders. The song "I am a Child of God" still makes my gut tighten when they sing the part about having "parents kind and dear." This was the first time I've heard someone validate those conflicting feelings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=773&v=Rs4XJURtSug Some advice was given in several articles on lds.org. This one by Ann Prit was especially good, imo. How to Help Those Who Have Been Abused• Be a friend. Many people who have been abused feel distant from others. Don’t feel that you have to solve their problems; just be willing to listen empathetically. • Be trustworthy and dependable. Many abusers held a position of trust and then violated that trust. It can help survivors immeasurably when they are able to consistently count on others. • Facilitate their activity in the Church. Be sensitive to the possibility that survivors of abuse may feel unworthy and uncomfortable in Church settings. Let them know that the scriptures which describe God’s love for His children apply to them. Provide opportunities for them to serve others, and show them that righteous living can bring joy and happiness. • Withhold judgment. Unfortunately, some people who have been abused may turn to questionable activities to dull their pain. Without condoning their behavior, realize that as they work through their pain they will be better able to keep their bodies and minds free of things that are harmful to them. • Don’t expect them to quickly “forgive and forget” or “just get over it.” Until the issues have been worked through, the effects of the abuse may still be an ongoing and painful part of the person’s everyday life. Genuine forgiveness may take time, and it does not happen by merely denying one’s feelings and avoiding the issues. • Be sensitive to the needs and feelings of the abused when teaching, speaking in sacrament meeting, or giving comments in Church classes. For example, when talking about families, be aware that not every person has a family he or she wants to be with. Holidays may be especially difficult for those who have been abused, particularly Mother’s Day and Father’s Day. When talking about enduring trials, recognize that the Lord never intended anyone to experience abuseso that they could learn lessons from it. Abuse is always wrong and is condemned in the strongest terms by the Lord’s prophets and by the Savior. • Help survivors of abuse understand that they are not bad because bad things were done to them.Appropriately place responsibility on the perpetrator. Don’t imply that being abused was the victim’s fault. People do not have to repent of evil that was done to them; in fact, they cannot do so. It can be painful for abused children to hear about divine intervention for the righteous. Although Daniel was saved from the lions, does that occur all the time for all of us? Clarify the truth so that any who have been abused and not rescued will understand that they are still worthy individuals. • Teach the importance of respecting others’ bodies.Emphasize that all have the right to keep their bodies private, regardless of another person’s status or authority. • Never give up in bearing testimony of the power of the Savior. Lovingly testify that we can access His marvelous power and love again and again. Ann F. Pritt, a therapist, is a member of the Kaysville Ninth Ward, Kaysville Utah East Stake.

I'm not sure I agree with everything you said, but I do feel your heartache.

We all use our own history, our experience, to gain sympathy. Sharing painful experiences is one way people bond and form feelings of solidarity. There is no difference between "someone looking for comfort" and "using a horrible even to gain sympathy." Sympathy provides comfort. So does compassion. LIsten to people talk after they first meet. "I had surgery last week." "I did TOO!" "I'm in so much pain right now, I can hardly walk." "I am TOO!" "My surgery cost a million dollars!" "Mine did TOO!" "You want to come over for dinner?" People usually share their "war stories" because they're looking for compassion, not so they can be cut to pieces. My only "agenda" was to help people try to understand how someone coming from my life experience might feel and look at this very emotional issues Some people were compassionate. It felt good to know even though people may not agree, they recognized my feelings as being valid. You were not compassionate. Rather, you attacked. I should have just stopped talking then. I recognize the fact that people who attack are generally suffering, themselves. I apologize if anything I said hurt your feelings. You are in my prayers now. But dinner is out of the question!

Bottom line is it's done. I am sure it was not an easy decision to come to. I am sure much prayer and contemplation and discussion went into it. You have to either accept the Church and the decision, or gather your chicks and leave. There ARE other churches that are more accepting to gay members. If people don't like the rules, just like in the Boy Scouts, they have the option to join a different club. No need to lose any more sleep over it, really. Just watch and wait and see where it goes from here. I imagine all the drama will die down - or I guess I hope it will.

Right. My mom goes to a non-denominational church in a very small town. Their office gets broken into constantly. They have had computers, copiers, and other items stolen. Someone also stole the money and gifts that were to go to the families of Veterans one Christmas. I imagine it's drug addicts...