Lostboy289

Repenting is just one part of the process, a necessary part of the process, but just one. It is not enough to simply apologize for your actions after the fact, using the process as a Platinum "Get out of Jail Free" card. We validate that repentance through striving for good works and improvement in every day of our lives. Striving for every inch closer to the lord, every millimeter even. However if the standard set down by the Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ is the measuring stick that we must cross in order to earn our place by his side, than that is a line that every one of us will come up short on. Far, far short. What matters most of all is the striving, the trying, the never giving up even when we fall off the path. As long as we go into our lives trying to do good and mirror Christ in our lives, regardless of how short we come up, he will make up the difference. A complicated issue seems to be more knowing if you are truly striving enough. Unfortunately that is a tricky one, as there is no hard and fast standard for that. It differs for every one of us, and even for ourselves at different places in our lives. Luckily, we can get answers to that through regular prayer and a close relationship with our Heavenly Father. Go in with an open heart asking if there is more you can do.

Haha oh crud, sorry. Saw it on the first page and just assumed it was new.

Sorry for the double post. Haven't quite figured out the quoting system on this board. So why are they not biologically capable of making a promise to wait when they are 19, yet capable of making an enternal promise of marriage when they are 19.5 and dump their former boyfriend for a shiney new fiancé? I wonder how much of this non-culpability for consequences is actually biological and how much is cultural, as this is really the first era in history that we don't expect people in their late teens/early 20s to be responsible for their actions.

The real issue is what do you do once you have already made it.

And I expect people to honor any promise, regardless of how small or how poorly it was thought out. But that's just me. If I made a poor financial decision when I was 18, I wouldn't be allowed to get out of it simply because I didn't think it through before I made it. If I broke the law when I was 18, I would still face punishment even if I didn't fully realize the consequences of my actions. And in those cases we typically haven't drastically dealt a blow to someone's life. There is one promise I have already made though. As a temple worthy priesthood holder I promised to be honest in my dealings with my fellow man and Christlike in my treatment of others. And as a child of God we have all in a way been made caretakers of our fellow man. We must realize that the effects we have on others is like throwing a rock into a pond, often rippling out beyond the initial splash of our own conscience. Occasionally with the ripples having profound effects on others, both positive and negative. That goes even more so for people who we are in a position to truly devastate, like friends, family, and romantic partners. We are somewhat responsible for their well being, regardless if this is a responsibility we asked for or not. I pray to be more in touch with those feelings. To think beyond my own contentment to the welfare of others. To find out if I have hurt them, even unintentionally, and if so, how to make it right.

I'm sorry, but I just can't say that complete callousness towards another human's feelings is ok simply because I haven't made a binding covenant with them. That because we aren't married, anything is "fair game". Cruelty towards another person simply because they stand in the way of our happiness is not ok regardless of who they are. Especially when leaders of the church state (I'm paraphrasing) "Any temple worthy man and woman can create a celestial marriage". If I can't honor my 2 year promises to someone, how am I expected to honor my eternal covenants to a person when a marriage gets difficult? Seems like it should be my problem to work through and get over, and eventually find my own happiness in the situation I created for myself. Also I think I should say that I am a convert, and growing up in a non-Mormon society, engagements are definitely treated a lot more heavily. Out there, once you've chosen to marry someone you have already decided to be committed to them and barring some brand new piece of information about them (Cheating, drug use, revelation of a major life secret) you are pretty much expected to press ahead with it.

She also promised to wait for him during his mission. That was actually what led to their engagement. I apologize if I didn't state that. I'm saying that it is morally wrong to mess around behind your SO's back and only then end the engagement because you realize that you like someone else better and have them locked down. I expect people to honor promises that they made regardless of who it is or how rashly it may have been made. If you realize the feelings are gone, the time for that discussion should come after the missionary returns, after that commitment you made has been honored. I thought any cruelty to any human being for any selfish reason is immoral?

Or maybe I just want someone to explain to me why a culture that sets standards for ourselves at near Christlike perfection, is so willing to let a major moral failing be not only excused, but embraced as part of the culture and even indirectly celebrated in the temple?

Dumb promise to make or not it is a promise. Regardless of how rashly it was made, you should still be expected to honor a commitment once it is made. And in a church that expects near perfection of its members (YSA or otherwise) in other aspects of their life and in other commitments (especially when those commitments are hard and have to be "forced"), I don't know why expecting a grown adult to keep this one is "unrealistic". Painful, very painful is indeed the right words to describe this. And causing that much pain in another human being so you can get something you desire is the very definition of being un-Christlike. She did pledge to wait for him on his mission though. You don't need to be married to someone to make a commitment to them. If I were to say, promise to help you move, that is a commitment. And if I just suddenly didn't show up because something better came along in the mean time, I would be a pretty big jerk. Cheating on someone who you are engaged to is exponentially worse. The crisis of faith was actually my own, seeing such rampant cruel behavior among members being excused.

It sounds like not everything about the Mormon way of life appeals to you, but some aspects do. All I can say is, that is perfectly ok. Great even, You don't need to understand or accept everything at first glance. As a convert myself I can fully relate to that. Many of the things which I have a deep personal testimony of now seemed bizarre to me upon first hearing them. Many a conversion started as someone simply wondering to themselves "Why are those Mormons always so happy?" and becoming curious from there. Il admit I almost stopped investigating for a month or so because certain things didn't click with me and I thought maybe it might not be a good fit. All I ask is that if you do decide to investigate, go in with an open mind. Go in realizing that you may not "get it" when certain things are brought up. But find those things that you do get. Those things that you can immediately testify of, and use that to keep you going as you gain and understanding and testimony of all aspects of the gospel. Realize that some of that testimony may take years to arrive, only after you have faithfully lived that commandment and seen its affects on your life. Witness the effects that it has on other people, and use their testimony as a spark for your own. Above everything else, if you have doubts, doubt those doubts.

Yes, we should expect young people to honor their commitments. Just like we expect them to abstain from harmful substances, remain sexually pure, and even take on the huge responsibility of serving a mission. And that is the problem. Up until very recently, people 18 and up were considered mature adults and held accountable for their actions towards others. They were expected to hold jobs, get married, raise children, follow the law, ect. Why is it suddenly different? And why is this the one area where we relax our standards for what is expected of them?

Maybe you shouldn't be in a relationship before you go on a mission. But if you already are, as far as I'm concerned you've made a commitment to them for the time they are away. And commitments aren't made for the times that they are easy. They are made for the times that they are hard. Otherwise you wouldn't need to make one. Not being in a serious relationship that young may be an issue, but the bigger issue here is how you handle yourself once you are already there. Although the case I spoke of involved a Missionary who was 23 and his GF was 24. And I got my version of a Dear John when I was 27 and she 25. And Folk Prophet, I agree that this is a young people problem. But why is this the only young people problem that we as a Mormon culture seem to look the other way on? Church leadership speaks on the evils of drinking, drugs, pre-martial sex, and pornography. All problems rampant among the world's youth. Why are those spoken out against, but this isn't? Why is breaking the law of chastity or drinking enough to lose your temple recommend, but cheating on your boyfriend to marry another man is cause to receive one?

I'm in a bit of a similar situation. I'm in a stake in the middle of nowhere, ND, and there aren't many active YSAs. Some weeks I would show up to FHE and realize that I was the only on there, share a spiritual thought with myself, and then go home. But then in talking to the Senior Missionaries, I found that there were actually dozens of active YSA's in the town. Most were just not showing up. So I made it a challenge for myself. I was determined to show up every week and have an activity planned, and get others to attend as well. I worked closely with the Bishops and missionaries, found out who would be good candidates and started lobbying hard. I made calls to people, gave a talk during sacrament talking about the importance of YSA, volunteer to do favors for couples with a YSA eligible kids, and a couple times even needed to lovingly "scold" the people on the town's YSA facebook page for being part of the problem in not showing up. The biggest problem was breaking the negative momentum. For so long one or two people would show up, realize there was only one other person, and then leave only to never return. But then things started to turn around. I got a couple more people on board with my idea, and now there were 4 of us that were there every week. It became a little bit easier to convince new people to stay. And now over a year later there are 10 that show up every week. It took a lot of hard work, tons of patience, and a lot of help from Heavenly Father, but the YSA group is on its way. My goal is to eventually get an attendance of 20 people. Anyways, my point is if there isn't a great YSA, use it as an opportunity. I guarantee you that even if people aren't showing up, they are out there. Out there in a stage of their lives where they are looking for a path. And if they don't pick the church's, they are going to pick the world's. You may even meet a special someone along the way.

I converted right before I turned 25, so already my options were limited. I was engaged, but the day after I got military orders to a base in the middle of nowhere my Fiance ditched me suddenly. I started dating a friend of mine right before I left and eventually fell madly in love with her, but last year she dumped me so she could date another friend of hers who had a crush on her for awhile. Now I'm about to turn 28. Still in the middle of nowhere with only a handful of YSAs. And there definitely comes a point in this church where you are about 26 or 27 that the music stops and you realize that you are the only one without a chair.

I know this is going to sound super silly, and to be honest I feel silly just writing it. But the more I try and brush it off, the more I keep getting really bothered by it. And that thing that I'm bothered by is the Mormon cultural acceptance of "Dear John" letters among missionaries. Now I'm a convert, so I sadly never got a chance to serve a mission. But I had a similar experience in that I was suddenly dumped by my girlfriend (a committed Mormon with a flawless testimony) while serving far away in the military only a week before I was coming to see her, so she could be with another guy in her singles ward. I remember how absolutely destroyed I was. It still hurts just to think about it. And I was a member of YSA ward when I lived in an area that had one, so I did have experience with seeing the fallout of these letters. I remember one time there was a couple who seemed to be madly in love. Then the Brother went on a mission, during his going away talk announcing that he had proposed to his girlfriend and that as hard as his mission would be, he looked forward to having her to come back to. Two weeks later in sacrament meeting she was getting pretty cozy with another guy in front of everyone. I asked her how her fiancé was doing, and her response indicated that she clearly hadn't told him. Everyone in the ward talked about it as if it was this cute little gossip. A month later this new couple was engaged. I wrote the Elder a letter a few weeks later asking how he was holding up. It wasn't good. Apparently he was on the verge of being sent home because he was barely able to hold it together. Twice he burst into tears in the middle of a lesson, wasn't getting along with his companion (who encouraged him to just get over it), and he hadn't been able to sleep or eat in awhile. As everyone was celebrating and congratulating the new couple, all I could think about was this Elder, off dedicating his whole life to Heavenly Father, now on the receiving end of horrible cruelty by not only one of his best friends, but the woman who only weeks earlier pledged to spend eternity with him. Even though I never said anything to the couple, I declined the invitation to their wedding and left the room whenever people were congratulating them, as seeing what they did to a fellow Mormon Brother was just something I couldn't celebrate. I just don't get why this behavior is not only acceptable, but such a widespread thing among youth? The more I read about this, the more that I see that this is practically common. Brothers and Sisters often cheating on their signifigant other who is off serving a mission, often with that person's friends or even family (can you imagine spending the rest of your life with your ex as your sister in law, knowing your own brother betrayed you?). Frequently, the missionary doesn't even find out until their former gf/bf is engaged. Why would you even send an engagement announcement? Seems like rubbing salt in the wound. One of the interview questions for a temple recommend is regarding your honesty in your dealings with your fellow man. What is honest about promising to wait for someone, only to abandon that promise the second something better comes along? How is that Christlike? How is destroying someone else because their happiness stands in the way of ours, only to build our new lives on the ruin of their old one, not the exact opposite of everything Jesus taught us? Not the exact opposite of every virtue we try to cultivate in ourselves and the standard we strive to achieve by being a member? Now I understand there is a difference between hating the sinner and the sin, but even when someone is sinning we gently and lovingly let them know that what they are doing is wrong. Even having one alcoholic drink is enough to lose your temple recommend over. But cheating on your missionary boyfriend/girlfriend, or seducing your missionary friend's boyfriend girlfriend, is apparently not only completely honest and Christlike behavior, but a cause for celebration among that person's peers and religious leaders? It honestly just makes me sick and depressed thinking about it, and more than anything else makes me question this church.