brotherofJared
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Everything posted by brotherofJared
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They are still two separate beings. To my knowledge, we have no such doctrine.
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Some of it isn't. But there is plenty of truth to be found in the Bible.
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That's not true.
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I disagree. As far as I can see so far, we have a few individuals who did not specify the gender of the Holy Ghost but suggested that it might be male, but they didn't go so far as to say that the Holy Ghost definitely was. A few obscure comments by some GAs do not constitute the doctrine of the church.
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Basically, I was saying that we are all children of God but not by procreation.
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The reason we are in God's family is not because they have a son who has sons and daughters. It is because God is the Father of all spirits. That includes all spirits. However, to be members of the family which enjoys eternal in the presence of God, they have to be adopted through Christ. That doesn't mean that all the others who used to be in the family are no longer our brothers and sisters under God.
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It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. The environment is hostile and one would not expect that from a Christian group. We have @Vort questing her credentials as if that has anything to do with the topic and others condemning other views that one non-LDS poster has already stated his surprise at the result
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Maybe she wants a Mormon point of view.
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I can only guess. Initially, I used to believe that spirit = ghost, but that isn't entirely true. They have the same substance, but a ghost lived in a mortal body once whereas a spirit hasn't. Whether or not it makes any difference as to how we refer to the Holy Ghost may not be important, but for theological purposes, the Holy Spirit is the same as the Holy Ghost and apparently, there are many other names we can use to mean Holy Ghost. The book of Mormon.
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I don't believe all of the posts on this board represent LDS views as a church. They represent the personal views of a few individuals. Your OP was spot on. Now we're talking about something different that may or may not be related to your OP. As with evangelical sites, people have their views and often, they believe that their view is the only correct one, but no one knows everything, so don't worry about it. No one can take away a personal experience. They may disagree with your interpretation of that experience but they can't change the actual experience. Or, perhaps, reasonably discussed. While I agree that the trinity does equal family, I also believe that we are part of that family (all of us, including Satan and all that followed him). I may be taking this out of context, but it appears that you, here, are presenting them as an exclusive family with no other members in it. But we also believe that all of us have always existed and will always exist. Families, therefore, had to come later and I believe this is what brought us from beings who have always existed into spirits in an order of eldest is spiritual order but born in mortality in genealogical order in the meridian of time. Our spirits were begotten by the word of God, the Father, simply by organizing us into families, all of which, I believe we had a choice or an input into that structure and order. This would suggest that there was an election (the scriptures suggest that there was a well) and that the three operate by agreement and capacity. Not by nature of their substance or being.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that I either accept your way or it's the highway. If your way was the right way, as if it made any difference, why is it that you cannot show me? I've already told you I personally believe the Holy Ghost to be a man. But that's not good enough. No. I must also absolutely deny the possibility that my belief might be wrong. It seems incredible that a few persnickety individuals would ride me through post after post demanding conformity or damnation ... to what end? The salvation of my soul? I would think that it matters little whether or not the Holy Ghost is male or female. She is still the Holy Ghost. I have to wonder, if one who denies the Holy Ghost might become a Son or Daughter of Perdition, that if the Holy Ghost revealed to them that she is a woman, wouldn't accepting your demand for conformity place their salvation in jeopardy? I would wager that none of you know the gender of the Holy Ghost by either an actual witness or even by a person who has actually witnessed it. That you believe your interpretations of what you've read and heard is true doesn't make it true. It only makes it what you believe and even GA's can be wrong about what they believe, so why can't you all be wrong about what you believe? The funny thing is, it doesn't matter, you are willing to hound a person who doesn't happen to believe as you do and that is the reason I won't be where ever you are. I puzzle over Nephi's interview. Why did he say, "I beheld him that he was in the form of a man; yet nevertheless, I knew that it was the Spirit of the Lord" This statement only makes sense if Nephi understood that the Spirit of the Lord wasn't actually a man. It is clear that Nephi knew that the being he was talking to was a spirit. That does not explain the difference between the form he was talking to and his understanding of what the Spirit of the Lord was. It could, but it is vague. Nephi came from the pre-exilic Jerusalem when Asherah was still in the temple. Because a great deal of the Old Testament had be re-written to remove direct references to her, we know very little about her, but there is enough evidence to support the worship of a feminine deity in the temple in Israel. The Book of Mormon has this reference that seems to support the idea that they understood, as Nephi alludes, that there is a female deity present in the Godhead. Mosiah 8:20 O how marvelous are the works of the Lord, and how long doth he suffer with his people; yea, and how blind and impenetrable are the understandings of the children of men; for they will not seek wisdom, neither do they desire that she should rule over them! Wisdom is the word that was frequently used to describe this female deity. It is our weakness that we don't know any more about her than we do. As I said, I'm not sure this is referring to the Holy Ghost, but I'm willing to accept it if it is. Nephi's interview doesn't clear up the Spirit of the Lord's gender, masculine pronouns don't either. Regardless of the gender of the Holy Ghost, The trinity still equals family.
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Indeed. Go talk to the mirror.
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Yes. That's my point exactly. So, here's my suggest... you go study the scriptures and when you find a passage that says the Holy Ghost is a man, not appears in the form of a man with a vague reference to who that spirit actually is or some masculine pronoun passages and then we'll have something to talk about. Until then, we really have nothing further to discuss. You have your opinion and I have mine. You could be wrong. I'm most definitely not.
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1 Nephi 11:11, but read the entire encounter. Here is the link: 1 Neph 11
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Keep going. Someone loves ur.posts. I get what ur saying. If I don't agree with ur view of things I'm to be condemned. And I'll tell u the same thing intelligent evangelicals. Any place is better where people like u r not. I have repeatedly stated that I am simply leaving the option open. I personally believe that the Holy Ghost is a man but i could be wrong. Until I have a face to face with the Holy Ghost and know he is a man or someone who I respect reports that they know he is a man, I see no reason to close the option. Marion didn't have enough to make a blatant statement that the Holy Ghost is a man. He simply stated that Christ used masculine pronouns when referring to the Holy Ghost. That is not enough for me to make the claim that the Holy Ghost is a male either. IMO, Marion and I are in agreement. You guys are not. U all seem to know something that no GA has been willing to back even though they may also believe he is a male. I think it pious to place yourselves in a position to condemn my willingness to be taught. Ur scoffs and scorn is not unlike the people in Lehi's vision in the great and spacious building. Go ahead and puff up ur chest. Beat it and roar like a lion about how wrong I am. I have nothing to fear. I will not be embarrassed by my understanding because I'm willing to accept that I don't know. I'm still baffled by how Mormons can be so much worse than our critics.
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I saw that. I read that wonderful interview as well and in my reading, that wasnt the holy ghost but was the pre-mortal Christ.
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How do reach some who thinks they have a banana and they don't? 🙄
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Apparently, u missed the point.
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Apparently, you missed the point. Marion G Romney takes from the New Testament reference saying that He, Christ, will send him unto you. I believe I was very clear when I said I will not accept the words "him" and "he" to conclude that the Holy Ghost is a man. I don't care who said it. Now if you want to argue what gender the Holy Ghost is, find me a GA that spells it out that the Holy Ghost is a man, not is referred to as a man. Marion is able to accept masculine pronouns as a definition of the sex on a person that we are not sure of. I am not able to do so. For me, a 2000-year-old document that we have no original text for is simply not good enough. The reference to the Spirit of the Lord appearing in the form of a man, IMO, is the premortal Christ, the same being who appeared to the Brother of Jared. I do not believe that was the Holy Ghost, even though Talmage and Romney do. They assert that belief in square brackets and I simply don't agree with their assertion. Let me be clear here. I'm not saying that the Holy Ghost is a girl. I'm just saying that I believe that is a possibility. I see nothing wrong with the idea. I'm okay either way if the Holy Ghost is a woman or a man. It doesn't undo the trinity nor does it affect their familial relationship. It's only a possibility that I am willing to be corrected. However, you haven't provided the evidence that would correct my ideas and I have found none. IMO, you all are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
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The analogy means nothing to me nor does the praddle about how women use their priesthood power. Anyone can do what has been listed so far without the priesthood.
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Regardless of what the actual gender of the Holy Ghost is, the OP doesnt affect the trinity definition and the idea that it is a family is there.
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Is there one in there that states that he is a man? Nope.
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What I said is not confusing at all. The issue here is one of two things. Either I dont know or I just disagree with ur interpretation. But u cannot be confused about what I just said. If u have a definitive doctrinal statement about the gender of the Holy Ghost, please let me know. I'm not going to accept general references to him as he and him. That does not satisfy what I consider definitive doctrinal evidence. If I dont know he gender, where I believe the priesthood is involved, we general will identify the person as a male. But the key here is that we dont know the gender of the Holy ghost. That may be ur definition but it isnt the dictionary definition. I know that the trinity make up the Godhead but the definition is about the three persons who are one God. That's the definition. LDS believe that the trinity are the three beings who make up the Godhead and we believe they are one God. Nothing in the OP does any damage to either definition. The son and the Holy ghost are siblings. They are children of God. That makes them family. The confusion u r experiencing is totally self manufactured.
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I believe that when we pray to the Father, she is equally aware and responsive to our prayers, but not because they are one being. It is because they are one and she is not excluded from our lives, desires and questions.
