brotherofJared

LOL. I'm not that brother. U can call me BoJ

The problem is not with them. It is with us and the society that wants to pigeon hole them. They are not like the majority of the rest of us and so they often get ostracized. I don't think this genderism is the answer. I don't think we have an answer. They aren't broken. The people who think they are are the ones who are broken. Once we get that right and fixed in our minds, we might be getting close to how to properly address it... I lost some of my post. Not sure how I started it. The amazing return key just wiped out a chunk. Anyway, this seems to be a topic for new thread. To bring it back to this topic (I don't think I understood the OP to begin with), pigeon holing people who are different from us is a tool of the devil. I'm not really sure what weapon God has given us to combat that. I'm not sure it's right to be upset with people who are trying to do something about it even if it's not the right way. I believe we should be an influence in the world, but sometimes the only thing we can do is be the example; to be the light. It kind of reminds me of a movie I once saw where a group finding themselves in enemy territory were trying to get to safety, but between them and freedom was a mine field. They had the correct means to get through, but it was tedious and took time and the enemy was fast on their heels. They tossed stones, stepping stones, into the minefield from a safe distance and if the stone didn't blow up, that was a safe spot. That's where they'd step and it's how they advanced through the field. They eventually ran out of time and found themselves in a pickle. Stuck in the mine field with the enemy behind them, they couldn't go back and get more stones. So one of the group said, follow me and step where I step and he leaped out into the minefield. Even if he landed on a mine, it would be a safe place for the others to step. The end was in view. Luckily, he made it. Though it was quite tense. Everyone made it. The point is. Be the light. Step out so that others can follow. I don't know the tool that combats bigotry. Do you? If I presented myself as I intended to, then it should be evident that even genderism is a form of bigotry, if for no other reason than it has pigeon-holed groups of people, even the people they are trying to help.

I didn't take it that way (I did, but chose to ignore it). It's all fixed up now. I wasn't even sure it was coherent as I was typing between bus stops and bus rides.

Typing on my cell phone.

I was doing a search online trying to find out who, from an LDS perspective is enthroned between the cherubim and the search landed me in this site. I didn't get the answer, but was happy to find a place if like minded people (as opposed to anti-Mormon sites). I need to be able to get away for fresh air. I hope this site will give me that opportunity. I don't like to divulge personal information on forums but I will say that I am a Mormon. I believe itnis necessary to question everything and that God answers every question. Some of those answers are specifically for me (in that they don't always agree with the LDS norms. More on that later). I don't mind sharing what I've found but realize that I could be wrong. I do iuse what I've discovered when talking with non-Mormons to explain difficult doctrine or beliefs. Generally, I explain that we don't know how some things are done only that they are true and the give what I think would fit as a better example of how it could be and I try to support it with scripture or quotes from Joseph Smith. Examples of these would be that we are sons and daughters of our heavenly father. This is two fold, spirit and flesh. One we know how it is done but nothing in the Bible or modern scriptures tell us that that is the way it was done. Even the temple endowment clarify how we are the literal, physical sins and daughters of God. We know almost nothing of the processes before the garden. I have an answer that works for me, but it appears to contradict all of the garden stories that we have. I believe we just don't understand what is meant by the use of the word "dust". The other is equally elusive. We say that or teach that a continuation of the seeds mean that we will be able to "have" spirit children through the eternities. But how is that done? We don't know. We do know this, that however God did it, we will do it the same way. How did He do it? We don't know. We only know that He is the father of our spirits. We just don't know how. I have an answer for that too. After the debaukle with race and the priesthood, I realized that we don't have the answers we sometimes think we do. When we say something, we tend to want to explain it and sometimes we make a mess if it and sometimes we say things out of script having no understanding of what we're saying. I don't have all the answers, but I hope that I will not be rejected without thought or constructive criticism. I will ignore any outright condemnation. A word about the debaukle I mentioned above. I believe that the church has been on a course guided by God since it's restoration. The debaukle is not on the church but on good members who struggled to defend what they thought was the reason, even members in positions of authority. Brigham Young might not have been wrong as history does show that the black man's life has not been a blessed one. We don't really know the reason for that and we can't say for sure that Brigham Young was right or wrong except where the circumstances have changed. We have learned a lot from that debaukle but for some reason many of us still think we know the mind of God and feel we are in a position to judge eternities we have absolutely no knowledge of. Now I sit in classes where the teacher and students all sit and agree with the same script without thinking about what they are agreeing too and I don't say a thing about it. It is not the time or place to address these issues. Did God's wifenor wives produce 50 billion spirit children and raise them personally over eons and those are only the ones on this planet, I'm not even going to guess how many on worlds without number? I don't think so. And I don't think any woman ever wants to do that. There are no spirit babies. Period. When we sing, I am a child of God, it does not matter what our age is, we are still children of God. That is the end of my examples. I made some comments here already. Realized that some of those would make a person wonder, "who is this person". I hope I have cleared that up a little bit.

I was doing a search online trying to find out who, from an LDS perspective is enthroned between the cherubim and the search landed me on this site. I didn't get the answer but was happy to find a place if like-minded people (as opposed to anti-Mormon sites). I need to be able to get away for fresh air. I hope this site will give me that opportunity. I don't like to divulge personal information on forums but I will say that I am a Mormon. I believe it is necessary to question everything and that God answers every question. Some of those answers are specifically for me (in that they don't always agree with the LDS norms. More on that later). I don't mind sharing what I've found but realize that I could be wrong. I do use what I've discovered when talking with non-Mormons to explain difficult doctrine or beliefs. Generally, I explain that we don't know how some things are done only that they are true and the give what I think would fit as a better example of how it could be and I try to support it with scripture or quotes from Joseph Smith. Examples of these would be that we are sons and daughters of our heavenly father. This is two fold, spirit and flesh. One we know how it is done but nothing in the Bible or modern scriptures tell us that that is the way it was done. Even the temple endowment clarify how we are the literal, physical sons and daughters of God. We know almost nothing of the processes before the garden. I have an answer that works for me, but it appears to contradict all of the garden stories that we have. I believe we just don't understand what is meant by the use of the word "dust". The other is equally elusive. We say that or teach that a continuation of the seeds mean that we will be able to "have" spirit children through the eternities. But how is that done? We don't know. We do know this, that however, God did it, we will do it the same way. How did He do it? We don't know. We only know that He is the father of our spirits. We just don't know how. I have an answer for that too. After the debacle with race and the priesthood, I realized that we don't have the answers we sometimes think we do. When we say something, we tend to want to explain it and sometimes we make a mess if it and sometimes we say things out of script having no understanding of what we're saying. I don't have all the answers, but I hope that I will not be rejected without thought or constructive criticism. I will ignore any outright condemnation. A word about the debacle I mentioned above. I believe that the church has been on a course guided by God since it's restoration. The debacle is not on the church but on good members who struggled to defend what they thought was the reason, even members in positions of authority. Brigham Young might not have been wrong as history does show that the black man's life has not been a blessed one. We don't really know the reason for that and we can't say for sure that Brigham Young was right or wrong except where the circumstances have changed. We have learned a lot from that debacle but for some reason, many of us still think we know the mind of God and feel we are in a position to judge eternities we have absolutely no knowledge of. Now I sit in classes where the teacher and students all sit and agree with the same script without thinking about what they are agreeing too and I don't say a thing about it. It is not the time or place to address these issues. Did God's wife or wives produce 50 billion spirit children and raise them personally over eons and those are only the ones on this planet, I'm not even going to guess how many on worlds without number? I don't think so. And I don't think any woman ever wants to do that. There are no spirit babies. Period. When we sing, I am a child of God, it does not matter what our age is, we are still children of God. That is the end of my examples. I made some comments here already. Realized that some of those would make a person wonder, "who is this person". I hope I have cleared that up a little bit.

God is always just. Being fair is a relative term. Of course He is fair, but it may not seem to be from our perspective. But no one can not deny that He is just. I have also read posts, not here, where critics claim that only Mormons can obtain the highest levels of the Celestial Kingdom which, if one considers that our baptisms for the dead make people Mormons, then we can't escape that accusation. However, baptism is not to a church. It is simply a saving ordinance that everyone must have in order to enter the Celestial Kingdom. You mention advancing through the degrees of the highest levels of the Celestial Kingdom and there is simply no way to advance into marriage if a person never married in life. Everyone will have the opportunity to advance before the judgment, but once judgment is passed there will be no more opportunity for advancement. There will be plenty of opportunities to advance for those who didn't squander the opportunities in life. That's the way I understand your statement in "a)". My personal belief that all married couples will have their work done for them and the wife they married. But the many people who never got the chance to marry, both men and women (which, I believe the biggest cause is that they just didn't live to a marrying age), will enjoy a courtship and be able to find a mate in the spirit world. This has been ongoing since the first man and woman died without marriage. During the millennium, when the Savior reigns personally on the earth, these who wish to marry will be able to be sealed by proxy just as those who died are already. We, the living, in those days, will learn directly from them what they desire and those marriages will be performed so they also may obtain the highest degrees of glory. Of course, these are my personal views. I can think of no other reason for a millennium. It's not a reward for the few good people left on the earth at his second coming. It an absolute necessity to handle the natural and normal shortcomings of life in mortality. In "b)", you stated that those living in the millennium will have "another opportunity", which I think is not correct. There are no second chances. However, that being said, no mortal being is capable of determining if the person had a "first chance" (unless moved upon by the Holy Ghost, but I wouldn't want to be that person if that responsibility ever were to rest on my shoulders). I don't think we can see these opportunities given to those through temple ordinances after death as second chances for anyone. If they refused to avail themselves of it the first time around, what's to say that they will not refuse the second time. Most refuse because they don't want to live a life patterned after a Celestial order. One of the greatest problems in human nature is the justification we give ourselves that what we are doing is our God given right. And, oddly, that is a true statement. Like the marshmallow experiment, many people are not willing to put off a right that they have NOW for more rights later. They cannot see beyond the marshmallow they have. I believe that if they had to chance, truly had the chance in life to obtained these blessings, they will pass it up when they are offered them again. We rise from the grave with the same spirit that went down into the grave. If we are filthy when we die, we will come out of the grave filthy still. I explained this concept to a friend who told me of his own experience of attempting to swim across a lake to the other side, like the swimming the English Channel. He started with good intentions but halfway there, he just couldn't make it and had his friends haul him out of the water into their boat. He felt that the boat represented Christ. I told him, in this life, it does represent Christ, but in the next, Christ will not carry us to the other side of the lake in a boat. In the next life, our families, through promises made in the temple, sealed families can reach through the eternities and find and retrieve those who lived below their capabilities. However, there, there will be no boat. The journey for them must be made alone with encouragement, but there will be no boat, no rescue. Then, somewhere in the middle, they realize that they chose not to get married and didn't want the priesthood and so when the fatigue and pain and sorrow, that they must suffer themselves, hits. They will suddenly see the fruitlessness of such a pursuit. It's not impossible, but it is very painful and most will just give up thinking it not worth the pain and sorrow. My take on your question is that as long as a person is following Christ, he is qualified for the Celestial Kingdom. It does not matter if they are modern Christian, Mormon, Hindu or Muslim, all are qualified because all are children of God. Of these, the good ones, the ones that do right, are often kept from learning of Christ and the ordinances by ignorance or the craftiness of man. However, once they learn and I think good people will grasp this concept right away, they will accept this gift with great joy. The saving ordinances are easy to accomplish. Living a Christ-centered life takes a lifetime.

Interesting. This goes or supports along the lines of calling evil good and good evil?

I believe it is a way to describe the effeminate man or the masculine woman

I disagree about the words or ideas. Instead, it is a war about choice. In the war that took place in heaven, the result of which we lost a third of our kindred, was freedom or captivity. Here on earth, it is a choice about doing good or doing evil. Or, in the same vein, it is a war about will both here and there. Who will we follow.