clbent04

Ahh okay. Thanks for the clarification. To me, it makes sense to say "John is just", because it's easily understood as to what you're saying. John is just and therefore must be fair guy. However, when you say the Church is true, you're saying something that needs to be qualified further and doesn't make sense by itself. Substituting these working definitions for "true" puts in into perspective The Church is "in accordance with fact" The Church is "accurate" The Church is "exact" These statements in themselves are open ended. The question becomes, the Church is accurate to what? The Church is exact to what? The Church is in accordance with what fact? We shouldn't be left with any questions with statements like these. It is vague, open ended, and confusing.

When I was a teenager, maybe a sophomore or junior in high school, I messed around with my girlfriend here and there. She was my first girlfriend, and I had never done what we had done previous to dating her. Pretty much everything but sex. As I'm someone who has been very prone to guilt my whole life, I felt the need to confess to my home ward bishop. After the bishop listened to my confession, he advised me I should tell my Dad. I said thanks, but no thanks, and that I was fine with just confessing to him. He proceeded with several more attempts to get a verbal agreement out of me to tell my Dad, but I was adamant in not doing so. We left it at that. Before I left I asked him if my confession was confidential which he said yes. The next Sunday in Priesthood Quorum we had a special visit from the bishop with him telling us that if we commit a serious sin, we should tell our parents. I had a good feeling this was related to me. Even though he did not break confidentiality to the specifics of my confession, I felt this was going a little too far. I confessed in good faith. I felt this issue was between me, my girlfriend, the bishop by necessity of confessing serious sins, and Lord the only. No one else had been affected or offended by these sins. I had already told my girlfriend we needed to slow our roll, which she agreed, and I told her sorry for being involved with her that way. Anyway, brushing past the Priesthood Quorum incident, the very next Sunday my Dad was apparently stopped in the hall by the bishop. The bishop told him that he should talk with me about something. My Dad asked what it was, and the bishop simply stated that my Dad and I should talk. The next day my Dad says let's take a drive and he tells me about what the bishop told him. Again, the bishop didn't openly break confidentiality but I felt like he had crossed a line. Is this typical behavior by a bishop? Was this a one-off situation? Should I worry about confidentiality being pushed to the edge with future confessions? Does this happen only to teenagers?

I think I'm just more confused now. I can't read too deeply into something that inherently doesn't make sense

The phrase "I know this Church is true" doesn't even make sense in itself. I'll hear a speaker during a fast & testimony meeting give a 5-minute talk about anything and everything unrelated to the gospel, and then close with the classic bow wrap "and I know this Church is true. Amen." And I'm left hanging. I'm thinking, what about the Church do you know is true? You provided no context leading up to this statement other than your new roommate's unclean living habits. If you say "I know principle 'X' is true" that would make sense in itself, if you said "I know the pythagorean theorem @Carborendum is true" that would make sense in itself, if you said "I know the teachings of the restored gospel to be true" that would make sense in itself, but the statement "I know this Church is true" does not make sense in itself

@Rob Osborn Could you please reference the scripture you are referring to for me? Specifically how the majority will receive Eternal Life? Thx

I read today in the Deseret News that a General Authority was excommunicated. What caught my attention wasn't that he of all people was excommunicated, but that it was the first time in "28 years since an LDS General Authority has been excommunicated" and prior to that a 46-year period! So only 2 General Authorities have been excommunicated in 74 years?!?! That to me is remarkable. Not that it would be remarkable to everyone. After interacting with Church leadership over the years, men who I've come to hold as examples to me in my own life, I cannot help but feel their callings are divinely inspired. And to someone like me who has already received spiritual confirmation of Church leadership, how much more is it a testament that they are chosen by God to these positions when so few have been excommunicated? If man was running the show without God's revelation at deciding who would be in Church leadership, and somehow still held accountable to the same standards, imagine how chaotic that would be. How many excommunications would we see then? The turnover would be tremendous. Men can't see what God sees when it comes to the preparedness of the heart, and the appointment to these full-time positions of service needs the steadiest of hands to guide. Also, to my knowledge, the Church has never experienced a financial scandal or misappropriation of funds. That speaks volumes to me for a nearly 200 year old organization.

Nice going! She sounds just as excited at the prospect continuing dating. In my opinion, best radar for when a girl likes you is when she puts out a vibe of "giddiness". Does she respond quickly to your texts, does she sometimes text you first, does she seem sincere in her affirmation of wanting to continue dating? So just keep the "giddiness" radar turned on and roll with the punches. May the good vibes continue!

Not a failed parent? Meaning you're optimistic on how many of us will make it to the Celestial Kingdom?

Alright, well don't beat yourself up about it. We can work on it

First of all, my examples weren't flowery speech, but I'm glad you think I speak so eloquently. Secondly, the average speaker is more than capable of speaking his mind in his own words. The less than average, timid speaker would be different. You can often tell if someone is nervous speaking in front of others, and honestly I don't care how they say it, I'm the one rooting them on to be able to walk away from their talk confidently feeing like they did a good job. Why? Because I emphathize with them because I am a very timid speaker, spent most of my life with a shaky voice when I get up to talk in front of others. But even for someone like me, this doesn't mean I can't speak my mind in my own words

You're missing the point. I'm not talking about the timid speaker who has limited linguistic skills needing to artfully craft his form of speech

This is not the point at all. I'm not suggesting we speak flowery. Is using your mind to speak your own thoughts in your own words flowery?

"I know this Church is true" Another reason I don't think we should use the phrase "I know this Church is true" as much as we do is for newcomers to the faith. They hear this phrase so frequently that they may feel inclined to say the same thing verbatim in order to be understood by members of the Church that the Holy Spirit has testified to them to of the truthfulness of the restrored gospel. But there are SO MANY other ways to express this: 1. I testify this is the gospel of Jesus Christ 2. The Holy Spirit has revealed to me the truthfulness of this restored gospel, and I testify to you that it is true 3. Praying earnestly led me to the divine knowledge that Joseph Smith was called of God 4. Upon reading the Book of Mormon, I felt the Holy Spirit burn within me, a warm, radiating feeling that opened up my understanding and knowledge that this is His Church 5. I know God's Church is here on the Earth today, and it is called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 6. I gained my knowledge of the the divinity of this gospel through the power of the Priesthood. In a time of need, Priesthood blessings of comfort were administered to me, opening my eyes and heart to the Lord in ways I never knew possible 7. I know, I testify, I share with you this is the Lord's Church. He designed and controls it If we are all more thoughtful in what we say and how we say it, we will encourage others to express themselves based on the words that come to their mind from their own hearts

Completely agree. You get the bigger picture

@Bad Karma Amen

Even if I get the message across to one person who is unaware they're making vain repetitions, that's a win. It actually seems very possible to me someone has already read this post and thought, you know what, I do say "I know this Church is true" a little too loosely in my testimony. Especially considering what a natural statement it's become. Heck, just from joining this website several days ago and combing through some of posts I've read, I've thought to myself, now that's a better way of thinking I didn't consider before

Thanks for your perspective, and no, I did not know your background from elsewhere on this forum until now. Very insightful to be hear how Muslims understand the Holy Spirit. I'm not sure if I would agree with this paragraph. Just because you haven't been taught in a certain faith to use the Holy Spirit as a source of guidance, doesn't mean you can't be guided nonetheless, right? Out of curiosity, how do Muslims typically pray? Do Muslims only recite memorized prayers, are they allowed to pray for whatever is on their minds (save questioning God or attempting to determine His nature), do they only pray to give praise, do they ask for things they are in need of...?

@Carborendum I'm diving into this ego, super-ego & the Id thing a little more. Id: "the source of our bodily needs, wants, desires, and impulses, particularly our sexual and aggressive drive" Ego: "seeks to please the id's drive in realistic ways that will benefit in the long term rather than bring grief" Super-ego: "Reflects the internalization of cultural rules, mainly taught by parents applying their guidance and influence" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego Okay, so to answer your question, my original post was aimed more at Id and Ego, not Super-ego

Wikipedia says, "According to this Freudian model of the psyche, the id is the set of uncoordinated instinctual trends; the super-ego plays the critical and moralizing role; and the ego is the organized, realistic part that mediates between the desires of the id and the super-ego." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego @Carborendum To answer your question, I'd need to understand what I just pasted above I'm a little fuzzy on the concept of ego, super-ego & the Id

I'm trying to remember a story told within the Church that I heard a while back. If I provide really vague details on the story, could someone help me find it? I'm not sure if I read it in an Ensign, Church manual or if it was relayed through a talk given in General Conference. I told you, right? Off to a very vague start! What I do remember is it is a Church published story somewhere. It's a story about someone who lived in a place that did not have any presence of the Church at the time. No missionaries had ever been to that part of the world and there were no means to receive Church broadcasts and so forth. The story goes that a man who desperately wanted to know the truth of God's path for him prayed day in and day out doing the best he could with what he had. This man so desperately wanted to know the truth, that pieces of revelation started to come to him such as the need to have sacrament. He instituted his version of the sacrament among his family or tribe along with whatever else came to him as an inspiration. The story continues that the man's faith and desire for truth were so great, that missionaries were inspired to visit his location for the first time. The missionaries were amazed at the man's readily acceptance of the gospel and how he had progressed so far on his own That's about the sum of it. Fair warning that I may have mixed up some of the facts

@Mike @Just_A_Guy @Grunt @person0 @Carborendum Thanks for your insight and perspective and for taking the time to understand my perspective. Great feedback. I've been reading and rereading. This topic has weighed on my mind for sometime

Thank you for not dropping the stubbornness or pride card on me I'm very grateful for the positive feedback I've received on this thread on a subject that has been at the forefront of my heart for nearly 10 years

Why would we not like the answer? Because it might contradict what we thought previously ourselves?

Collectively considering some of the responses on this thread, I'm beginning to feel this is true

@Carborendum Thank you for writing this. Your perspective really helps me see where I have several holes in my idea of cross examining all religions based on trying to measure the Holy Spirit. This is a meaningful response that was well thought out and resonates with me: relating my situation to scientific method how my hypotheses could be limited in scope, your own story, developing a "knack" for feeling the Spirit... Thanks for this. I'll probably be reading it again.