clbent04

You had me all the way up to the point you said Diet Coke. I like the regular

Thanks @NeuroTypical

Good scripture references. I forgot about these passages. Thanks

@LiterateParakeet You brought up a good point that brings up another train of thought. Is there a correlation between being sinful and partaking of substances that cause negative health affects to your body (even if not specifically itemized by the Word of Wisdom)? To dig a little deeper, do you think our bodies being negatively affected by animal products is a manifestation to us from the Lord that consuming animal products beyond the "sparingly" threshold is displeasing to Him? Thinking of the Word of Wisdom, doesn't our obedience to not partaking of restricted substances generally save us from not only from breaking a commandment, but also from negative health effects as well? Aren't we taught that our bodies are temples and we are charged with maintaining them accordingly? ***I'll throw this disclaimer out there right now. No, I'm not a vegan, vegetarian or anything in between. I'm an omnivore that is accustomed to eat meat (mostly chicken) at least several times a week. I've thought about reducing my meat consumption lately probably because of my wife. She tries to eat as little meat as possible. She's very sympathetic to the plight we are witnessing today that a lot of these animals are enduring. Animals are being subjected to horrible living conditions and inhumane deaths in many of the major meat factories out there. It's a real thing and honestly very sad. I told her to STOP showing me the PITA videos, they're just too horrible to watch. It's like a holocaust happening everyday, animals living their entire existences in deplorable conditions only to be led to be slaughtered in excruciating ways*** Anyway, that's starting to veer off point of this post. I'm not a vegan who is trying to push their agenda on everyone else. Those people are annoying to me. I'm mostly interested in discussing what we can glean from the teachings of gospel, and the spiritual consequences, if any, related to meat consumption beyond the "sparingly" threshold

Do you think the Lord will judge us based on how much meat we consume in this life? Or how many animals died at the expense of our nourishment? "Eat meat sparingly"? What is sparingly? 1 out of 10 meals? I interpret this as eat meat as little as possible. I give the following breakdown using the glories of the Kingdoms of Heaven merely for illustration purposes in how I rank the righteousness of each class, not to say I believe these are the kingdoms you'll end up in based on your eating lifestyle Vegan = Celestial Vegetarian = Terrestrial Omnivore = Telestial Carnivore = Outer Darkness After all, the Lord gave man dominion over the Earth and it's inhabitants (all the animals) so that God could test us with how we would exercise that dominion Agree/disagree?

Okay, yeah, I agree with you that fast & testimony meeting isn't the appropriate setting to admit what you don't know about the church. But what about if you were assigned a talk? Say the subject of the talk was on personal revelation. Would it be okay to say which things you have and haven't received revelation on and how your currently seeking additional answers from the Lord? What would you say if you were assigned a talk on tithing, and you happened to not have paid your tithing the last 3 years? Would it be okay to say that you haven't been a full tithe payer for quite some time, but how you understand it is a commandment from God, and upon being assigned that talk you found new inspiration to start paying tithing once more?

hahahaha. it's even funnier when you youtube that song which I just did

Pretty much every speaker I've heard in church states only what they know to be true about the church. I don't think I've ever heard anyone admit to not knowing something. For me, I think it would be beneficial to hear if other members had shortcomings when it comes to their testimony of the church. I would like to know I could relate to more people out there like me who have things to work on. Do you think the following examples would be appropriate to say from behind the pulpit? I don't know if this church is true. I grew up in the church, but I'm still unsure. I'm working on finding an answer and have been reading the scriptures and praying more frequently... I believe this church is true, but I don't know if the Book of Mormon is. I've prayed over and over again specifically asking if the Book of Mormon is true, but I have yet to receive an answer. I believe in the church nonetheless based on the overall feelings I receive when I go to church. I'm not giving up on praying about the Book of Mormon... Furthermore, do you think it would be okay to discuss a sin your currently struggling with from behind the pulpit? I have been dealing with an addition to pornography for the past 20 years, and am currently seeking the Lord's help in overcoming this problem... (assuming someone would be gutsy enough to ever say this one!) I tend to talk a lot and gossip with my friends, and realized the other day how negative gossiping can make others feel. I felt bad because my friend overheard me talking about her to the soccer team. I told her I'm sorry, and I'm trying to be more careful with what I say. I prayed to God the other night to ask forgiveness from Him too.

Would anyone mind sharing an experience of when they prayed to God asking for something they were in need of and how it came true?

Well said. This is the only explanation that seems logical to me "the child's allegiance to God has already been cemented to the point where the child isn't going to fall away through the rest of the training (s)he is to undergo". If not already cemented, it wouldn't make sense.

I think the issue is based on where is your priority. Who do you put first in your life? God or man? Also, waiting a year serves as a safeguard for those who may not be ready to take on additional accountability. A temple marriage provides some special blessings but with those blessings comes an added measure of accountability to following the Lord’s commandments.

Take away being revelation is real. How can two people from different cultures and different countries come to the same conclusions of how to live their lives and worship God

@pam are you going with E as well?

Mormon Ethics 101. If a stranger on the sidewalk bumps into you and asks if you got a light, what do you do? A.) Say yes and help him light it up B.) Lie to him saying you're sorry you don't have one on you C.) Tell him you actually do have a lighter on you, but you don't want to be the accomplice to aiding someone in breaking the Word of Wisdom regardless of their beliefs D.) Pretend you don't hear him and walk on

In my mind, this is how it plays out if I go back to church. First things first, meet with the bishop. I have absolutely zero issue with being completely open and honest with confessing my sins to a bishop. Only problem is, I've done it so many times now it's lost it's effect on me. I used to always get that fresh start, hopeful feeling after confessing. However, after so many times of not meeting my goal, it has dulled me into not being able to have that fresh-start feeling anymore. Instead, I'm just left with a feeling of despair that I will be back in the bishop's office in a couple weeks having failed once more. The despair seems insurmountable

I spoke with my wife tonight about implementing a weekly check-up on me. I never hide anything from her, so I don't think a computer monitoring program would be necessary. Maybe if I also found a support group that would be good. I just haven't found any yet. I live in the north Phoenix, Arizona area if anyone knows of any. Porn-addiction support groups appear to not really be a popular thing right now. I can see why since the thought admitting your porn-addition habits to a group of strangers is awkward. Much less awkward to tell someone about your alcohol problem

Considering everything said in this thread, I see my situation with my former bishop as a clear breach of confidentiality even just hinting and not blatantly stating the information that is to be kept confidential. Now, with that said, I'm actually a lot less disgruntled about the situation just from hearing from a lot of you that this is just how it works in the church. I thought I was dealing with a rogue bishop that was taking the law into his own hands outside church protocol. So my takeaway is confessions to a bishop are not required to be held in strict confidence. And that's fine with me. I get why it makes sense to involve parents in situations like these

My problem could very well be I thought I knew enough about the gospel and who I am, and made untrue assumptions. After observing 20 years of unchanged behavior paired with my own understanding (or lack of understanding) of how serious the Lord treats violations to the Law of Chastity, the only answer that made sense to me was to just give up

@zil thanks for writing this. I haven't really thought about how me giving up going to church and no longer making an effort is more problematic than whether or not I can obtain mastery of no longer looking at pornography. But they way you said it seems to make sense to me

@Armin thank you! this just made my day. I thought I was loosing my mind there for a second like I was speaking in tongues without an interpreter present to help translate

I think the Lord holds us accountable to the Law of Chastity at a higher standard than most other commandments when it comes to how closely we need to adhere to it in order to qualify for Eternal Life. Take home teaching for comparison. Are a couple missed months really going to set you back? Of course not. Honestly, considering all other things equal in terms of righteousness, I think an inactive member who didn't attend church for the last 10 years of his life, but who never had a problem with the Law of Chastity, is better off than someone who did go to church all those years but who is addicted to pornography. I'm not saying the inactive member would qualify for Eternal Life, but I think his judgement would be more favorable whatever that may be. That's one way to look at how serious I view the Law of Chastity. If it's true that I didn't have to overcome my problem with pornography 100 percent (assuming I made a faithful effort to the end), that would give me hope. But the conclusions I've come to just don't allow me to believe it. The powers of eternal procreation are too sacred to entrust to someone who hasn't mastered the skill of sexual self-control in this life.

I like the idea of having the accountability of reporting to my wife. She is really understanding and would be good at helping monitor my progress. I'll look into Accountable2You. Thanks

That's just it though. I'm at the point now where the thought of going to church doesn't bring me peace. It brings me despair. Thinking about being involved in church now just reminds me how I can't achieve my number one goal. A very deflating and defeating feeling for me that's compounded by the conclusions I've made about my own eternal welfare

Rightfully so. Partly written in a hypothetical scenario, and partly reflective of my own testimony. Most converted Mormons would say they've received a witness from God that the Book of Mormon is true, and they also wouldn't question as much in detail how powerfully the Holy Spirit is felt among those of other faiths

I may be mistaken, but I never flatly said I don't have a testimony of the church. If I did, I was speaking in a hypothetical scenario so I could get a point across. What I have posted is a question on how we know for sure the church is the one and only true church of God based on the test of using the Holy Spirit, and the relative influence of the Holy Spirit in this church among others. One thing I have said that could be interpreted that I don't believe in the church is I don't know if the Book of Mormon is true. I've read it a lot. Maybe 3x cover to cover. I mostly feel positive from reading its passages, but as far as receiving and answer from the Lord when I've asked "Is the Book of Mormon true?", I never have. But prayer has never been my strong suit, so I attribute this to my own lack of faith and spirituality. And I don't necessarily need a specific answer on the Book of Mormon to know this church is true. In the church's own logic, if you know the Priesthood to be true, then you can accept the Book of Mormon and the prophet Joseph Smith to be true. Not saying that I'm satisfied with my current testimony, that's just what it is for now. Very mistaken. My questioning of certain topics has nothing to do with wanting to avoid accountability, or questioning if the church is true. My motive is only to strengthen my own testimony and knowledge of the gospel. Thanks. Yes, I'm very open with my wife about this, she's supportive, I've met with numerous counselors in the church, I've never been to a group. Are there any groups that someone is are aware of inside or outside the church? I know the church has some kind of AA group.