LePeel

Intolerance of pro-abortion, anti-family, anti-marriage, anti-chastity, anti-Christ, indolent, hedonistic, violent man-children is actually a virtue by my estimation.

The political Left in the United States is the spearhead of the great and abominable Church. It is antithetical to the Kingdom of God at every point. It is obviously Satanic.

If she sincerely believes that the equality of women is in any way affected by pronouns, she's probably not mature enough to receive the very serious and sober minded message of the Book of Mormon.

What I mean is that God isn't being arcane. The bible is clear and it doesn't mean anything else than what it says, that Adam was formed from the dust of the earth, and Brigham Young agrees that's what it says. Brigham Young just doesn't believe it and thinks it should say something else.

If that's the case, how could Adam's body be formed in the womb? That's really arcane and unnecessarily mysterious if that's what God meant.

People seem to expect the church's position on evolution to be either a straight Yes or straight No, and if it's neither, the church doesn't have a position.

Lets grant this is true, why would God tell Moses that Adam's body was formed from the dust of the earth? Surely the people in Moses' day could understand the concept of a literal birth.

Brigham Young is right when he's right, and wrong when he's wrong, and a prophet only when he's a prophet. He has a very practical and "realistic" way of putting gospel topics that I appreciate. Try reading or listening to Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Bringham Young if you haven't already, he tends to put things in an interesting way.

The very same sermon continues a few sentences down: "I am quite satisfied to be made aware by the scriptures, and by the Spirit of God, that He is not only the God and Father of Jesus Christ, but is also the Father of our spirits and the Creator of our bodies which bear His image as Seth bore the image of his father Adam." Even so, the notion that children born in eternity have bodies from birth defies the very laws which demanded our probation in mortality. Furthermore, if spirits cannot be made, formed, or organized, as you suppose. Then children born in eternity must be different from us, a different race entirely, for they are not gods, for they don't have spirits. Unless you suppose they have spirits the same as ours? In that case they live in a state of damnation, for they don't have the knowledge of good and evil which we have, because they never fell, they never had the law. They have no path of progression, they have no future, they aren't happy, nor do they have joy, nor sadness, because, like a man born blind, they cannot see.

What does that have to do with your assertion that spirits aren't born?

What is the meaning of this quote?

Before I continue, what does Brigham Young say about this? Can I get a quote?

Flora and fauna interact with the environment, a natural selection takes places, and over time, we get a more and more refined ecosystem.

I'm thinking the development of an ecosystem is dependent on evolution.

I repeat myself. "Except a man and his wife enter into an everlasting covenant and be married for eternity, while in this probation, by the power and authority of the Holy Priesthood, they will cease to increase when they die; that is, they will not have any children after the resurrection. But those who are married by the power and authority of the priesthood in this life, and continue without committing the sin against the Holy Ghost, will continue to increase and have children in the celestial glory." TPJS pg. 300 Joseph Smith considered things like water to be eternal because the elements from which is it formed are eternal. Yet you couldn't say Joseph Smith believed H2O wasn't organized. When Joseph Smith used the word create, it was in the sectarian sense, that is ex nihilo. So, no, God does not have the power to "create" spirits, he can only organize them. I don't believe in the BYU philosophy department's notion that "intelligence" is an indestructible, irreducible, disembodied consciousness floating around in the void until someone makes it a spirit body. Besides all this, Doctrine and Covenants section 132 is crystal clear, the souls of men are borne by women. Lets assume that these couples really aren't having spirit children. Then what are they having? Because its undeniable that they're having offspring. You must be saying then that they're having children in the flesh. But wait, there's two problems with this. #1, these children, if born in the flesh, are in an Edenic state of innocence, and are therefore in a state of damnation. This simply cannot be a thing, it defies justice and the logic of the Plan of Salvation. #2, these children must have spirits in them anyways, or else the flesh isn't truly the offspring of these exalted persons, they're husks, basically animals. "[for the wife is given to the husband] to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified." D&C 132:63 Even if it didn't literally say women bear the souls of men. A continuation of the seeds can only be read as the couple continues to have offspring, no argument. Your notion that spirits exist without a birth doesn't have sufficient explanatory power, it doesn't account for enough of the data to work.

That's about as specific as I can get, I don't know much more than that. I'm assuming the theory of evolution was and continues to be verified like any other scientific theory. If it is, then its an explanation of the data. How is an ecosystem achieved if all the plants and animals are alien to this earth? Various biomes with regional flora and fauna which are made for those environments, the pull of the moon, fresh water fish can't drink salt water, you don't see cati in the Scottish highlands etc, etc.

"Except a man and his wife enter into an everlasting covenant and be married for eternity, while in this probation, by the power and authority of the Holy Priesthood, they will cease to increase when they die; that is, they will not have any children after the resurrection. But those who are married by the power and authority of the priesthood in this life, and continue without committing the sin against the Holy Ghost, will continue to increase and have children in the celestial glory." TPJS pg. 300 Joseph Smith considered things like water to be eternal because the elements from which is it formed are eternal. Yet you couldn't say Joseph Smith believed H2O wasn't organized. When Joseph Smith used the word create, it was in the sectarian sense, that is ex nihilo. So, no, God does not have the power to "create" spirits, he can only organize them. I don't believe in the BYU philosophy department's notion that "intelligence" is an indestructible, irreducible, disembodied consciousness floating around in the void until someone makes it a spirit body. Besides all this, Doctrine and Covenants section 132 is crystal clear, the souls of men are borne by women. Lets assume that these couples really aren't having spirit children. Then what are they having? Because its undeniable that they're having offspring. You must be saying then that they're having children in the flesh. But wait, there's two problems with this. #1, these children, if born in the flesh, are in an Edenic state of innocence, and are therefore in a state of damnation. This simply cannot be a thing, it defies justice and the logic of the Plan of Salvation. #2, these children must have spirits in them anyways, or else the flesh isn't truly the offspring of these exalted persons, they're husks, basically animals.

Lets take genetic and fossil.

Does this apply to exalted persons, since God weeps in the book of Moses?

How do we know there's no pain involved? I'm not saying there is, but how do we know?

If not evolution, what is your explanation for the data?

Spirits cannot have children, a spirit doesn't have the faculties. The privilege of procreation is only given to mortals here on earth and to resurrected and exalted persons who are sealed for time and all eternity. "[for the wife is given to the husband] to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified." D&C 132:63 The children of these exalted and eternal couples are spirits and are without flesh and bone. The same as we were before the world was.

We don't have to believe anything that isn't true, and there's no reason not to accept evolution. You don't have to accept all the various spins and flavors the secular atheists give evolution in order to accept it. The living God did not create matter, but he did organize it, "Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space-- The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things." D&C 88:12-13 "We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell" Abraham 3:24 We do not believe in a God who creates from nothing at all. He does not cause things to pop into existence, neither can He. Given this understanding, something akin to evolution is exactly what you'd expect to find. To obtain something as complex as this body, or even the bodies of animals, you must start with a point, and build upon it, line upon line. This is true for all matter, living or non-living. Take the atom, its the building block of stuff, but even the atom is made up of smaller stuff, and those particles, of even smaller stuff, and this even smaller stuff, of elementary particles. The universe testifies of its organization and the laws which direct it, evolution is a facet of this testimony, in my opinion. The creation account in the Book of Abraham 4 is interesting for the language it uses. It's the planning phase of creation, so the chapter is in future tense. Considering that, it seems to me as though the Gods can see, by omniscience or just sheer experience, the consequences of their earliest actions. It reads "And the Gods saw that they would be obeyed, and that their plan was good." Some have suggested that advanced life was transplanted here from another world. This doesn't allow for any kind of ecosystem, this earth is made for itself, and everything is adapted to it. Besides that, I like the idea of an Earth being a seed which blossoms into a robust world.

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