theplains
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Posts posted by theplains
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2 hours ago, laronius said:
Does God have a plan for us his children as a whole and as individuals? Yes. Does he lead and direct us in life if we are willing to listen?
From what church teachings I have seen, God's plan for Adam and Eve was for them to disobey
Him in the garden; otherwise the Plan of Salvation would have been frustrated.Apparently God chose disobedience as the means to start their progression. Or maybe,
despite Him telling them not to eat from the forbidden tree in the garden, He really wanted
them to eat from it and the Fall is not viewed as a transgression from heaven's point of view.One thing that is not clear is whether all the heavenly hosts were rejoicing the moment Adam
and Eve partook.Jim
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On 1/1/2020 at 9:50 PM, mordorbund said:
@theplains You disappeared right after I responded. Now that you're back again, did my answer address your concern?
Yes. Thanks.
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On 1/1/2020 at 2:56 PM, Just_A_Guy said:
1. A disembodied God, yes.
2. Before God was a man, what was He? Can you tell?
3. That’s because you don’t want it to be the same. The role you have clearly chosen to play on this forum is what the Hebrews would have called ha satan—the accuser.
1] Page 6 of the 1997 Gospel Principles has this image of the pre-mortal life.
Does Heavenly Father have a spirit body like his children are depicted as having in the picture
(as they are believed to be created in His image)?2] I believe there is only one God, anywhere, and He was never a man who progressed into
becoming a God.3] brotherofJared said Heavenly Father became God the same way Christ did.
How do you believe these two became Gods in the same way?
Thanks,
Jim
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On 12/29/2019 at 4:10 AM, brotherofJared said:
Heavenly Father is God of everything. He became that the same way Christ did. If you want to know how Heavenly Father did it, just learn everything you can about Christ and what Christ did is what Heavenly Father did.
The Religion 430-431 - Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual said Jesus became ranked as a God
when he reached a pinnacle of intelligence in the pre-mortal life. The Book of Mormon mentions that
Jesus, as God, took on human flesh; whereas Heavenly Father is taught (by Joseph Smith) to have
been a man who became a God; and this God was not from everlasting.This doesn't sound like the same way that you mentioned.
Thanks,
Jim -
19 hours ago, helamanc10 said:
The gathering of Israel will be done with or without us, we are being given the opportunity to be part of that gathering because it will bring joy, happiness, fulfillment, and the feeling that we are building the kingdom of God.
In 12 Facts About The Gathering, #11 says, "Those who have been baptized can later receive a patriarchal
blessing, which declares their lineage in a tribe of Israel."If this is a reference to a physical lineage, does this mean that there are no baptized members of The Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who are not physical descendants of Abraham?Thanks,
Jim -
On 11/20/2019 at 6:22 PM, prisonchaplain said:
Interfaith discussions about the nature of Jesus--especially in relation to the Father--almost have to include the LDS teaching that we are all eternal beings.
In the context of you being an "eternal being", how is Jesus considered the Eternal God when he
is taught to have become a God in his pre-mortal life?Thanks,
Jim -
On 11/16/2019 at 11:25 AM, mikbone said:
Here are two quotes from Joseph Smith Jr.
If me don not comprehend the character of God, they do not comprehend themselves. KFD
AND
My first object is, to find out the character of the only wise and true God. KFD
Do you disagree with anything taught in the KFD? If yes, which?
Thanks,
Jim -
On 11/13/2019 at 10:45 AM, mikbone said:
Joseph Smith Jr.
D&C 93:21 And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn;
Exodus 4:22 says, "And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even
my firstborn."Speaking of David (verses 20), Psalm 89:27 says, "Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than
the kings of the earth."Jeremiah 31:9 says, "They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I
will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not
stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn."
What does firstborn mean in the above three verses?Thanks,
Jim -
On 10/15/2019 at 11:41 PM, Anddenex said:
Do we think she felt thankful to Satan and resentment towards God. Does any scripture specify she was thankful to Satan? If not, then your guess is as good as mine. Resent God? The scriptures do not make it appear as if she was resentful.
Just wondering if you believe she thought God had deprived her of the wisdom
she sought when she ate from the forbidden tree (Genesis 3:6).I think that Moses 5:10-11 (if true) would be a little 'dig' by Eve towards God like
Adam apparently did to God when they had this exchange:And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof
I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree,
and I did eat.Adam, instead of taking responsibility, blames the woman - but I see an indirect
blame placed on God by Adam in his response. Eve follows the blame-game and does
likewise and blames Satan instead of taking responsibility.Our fallen nature leads some to also say, "It wasn't my fault, the blame is on
someone or something else."
Eve said, "Were it not for our transgression" (Not to offend, but do you ever actually
read the verses you actually propose your questions from?) What does this scripture say
that you already quoted? What does it mean that Eve knew she transgressed? Anything
outside of that would be speculation, unless of course there is scripture that states
more than this.Eve knew the command not to eat from the forbidden tree and she voluntarily disobeyed it.
Is that what you meant by your question?
This is the type of question clearly highlights a lack of sincerity with your questions,
which then I would respond with the same type of question, "Are you saying no one is
saved then"? Please think through your question so they don't come off so easily seen
as insincere.The reason why I posed my question was based on what Gospel Principles mentions in
chapter 6:Great Blessings Resulted from the Transgression
• How does the Fall provide opportunities for us to become like
our Heavenly Father?Some people believe Adam and Eve committed a serious sin when
they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. However, latter-
day scriptures help us understand that their Fall was a necessary
step in the plan of life and a great blessing to all of us. Because of
the Fall, we are blessed with physical bodies, the right to choose
between good and evil, and the opportunity to gain eternal life.
None of these privileges would have been ours had Adam and Eve
remained in the garden.After the Fall, Eve said, "Were it not for our transgression we never
should have had seed [children], and never should have known
good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life
which God giveth unto all the obedient" (Moses 5:11).Were these blessings on Adam and Eve due to obedience or disobedience?
Thanks,
Jim -
1 hour ago, Anddenex said:
but we do know from scripture from Eve's words that they wouldn't have had children if they remained in the garden of Eden.
I don't see that any change (fear, shame, knowledge of nakedness) came upon Eve even though she ate
first but this only occurred after Adam had also eaten. Do you see it this way too?Regarding Moses 5:11 - And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for
our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and
the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.Since Eve is said to have attained this knowledge of good and evil after eating from the forbidden tree,
what do you believe she thought about God for forbidding them from partaking of it? Do you think she
felt thankful to Satan and a resentment towards God who withheld this from her and Adam (when he
commanded Adam not to eat from it and then reminded him again that it was forbidden - Moses 3:17)?Did Eve believe "having seed" and "knowing good and evil" were the result of obedience or disobedience?
The reason I ask is because of the phrase "which God giveth unto all the obedient" which supposedly
was applicable to them too.Thanks,
Jim -
On 10/8/2019 at 8:22 PM, Anddenex said:
I believe the Book of Mormon is pretty clear as to when Jerusalem was destroyed in relation to Zedekiah. I believe you have read the verses also.
When I add 2 Nephi 25:10 plus the introductory notes for 3 Nephi 1, it seems the destruction of
Jerusalem happened roughly in the first year of Zedekiah's reign.Jim
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On 10/10/2019 at 4:49 PM, Mores said:
"Missing" is not the right word. It was that they progressed "to a certain point". And that was as much as could be learned in a state of innocence. Such state was in both the Celestial sphere as well as the Garden.
What do you mean by a "state of innocence" in the pre-earth life?
Thanks,
Jim -
On 10/11/2019 at 3:09 AM, Jersey Boy said:
When we were premortal spirits, we lived in the immediate presence of God. After an indeterminate period of time of learning and growing spiritually while in the immediate presence of our heavenly parents, we came to a point in our progression when it became necessary to leave heaven so we could learn to believe in and trust in God while separated from his glorious presence
Did spirits have agency (the ability to choose between good and evil) in that pre-earth state?
Thanks,
Jim -
On 9/21/2019 at 12:03 PM, Mores said:
Opposition is a necessary part of learning and growth. There was no ability to progress in the Garden.
The 1997 version of Gospel Principles says,
Our heavenly parents provided us with a celestial home more glorious and beautiful than
any place on earth. We were happy there. Yet they knew we could not progress beyond a
certain point unless we left them for a time.Since we could not progress further in heaven, our Heavenly Father called a Grand Council
to present his plan for our progressionThe 2009 version has only the later part:
Our Heavenly Father knew we could not progress beyond a certain point unless we left Him
for a time.What do you believe allowed them to progress to a certain point in their celestial home which
was missing from their time before the Fall in the Garden of Eden?Thanks,
Jim -
2 Nephi 2:26 says, "And the Messiah cometh in the fulness of time, that he may redeem the
children of men from the fall. And because that they are redeemed from the fall they have
become free forever, knowing good from evil; to act for themselves and not to be acted
upon, save it be by the punishment of the law at the great and last day, according to the
commandments which God hath given".What is the punishment of the law at the great and last day for those redeemed from the fall?
Thanks,
Jim -
On 9/8/2019 at 8:22 PM, Anddenex said:
And?
In relation to Zedekiah's years of rulership, when was Jerusalem destroyed?
Thanks,
Jim -
On 9/2/2019 at 4:27 PM, Anddenex said:
If Lehi remained in Jerusalem, his life would have been taken by the Jews (Israelites) in Jerusalem long before Babylonians came to conquer to Jerusalem. His family though, according to Nephi and Lehi, would have perished in Jerusalem most likely by the conquering army - Babylonians
From 2 Kings 23, I see that Jehoiakim reigned for 11 years and then his son Jehoiachin became king.
He reigned in Jerusalem for 3 months (2 Kings 24:8) and then Nebuchadnezzar came and besieged
the city of Jerusalem, took away many captive to Babylon, and plundered the house of the Lord (verses
13 and 14, before Zedekiah was made king). Lehi was supposedly still in Jerusalem (as the Babylonians
had already come to conquer Jerusalem in the reign of Jehoiachin). -
On 8/30/2019 at 12:45 PM, Anddenex said:
Great question. We can see from the record that the answer is both. If not for the wickedness of those who were seeking to take his life the Lord wouldn't have commanded him to leave. So, in this light, I would call this, a combining of two events.
1) The people of Jerusalem sought to take his life
2) The Lord knew this and forewarned Lehi and commanded him to leave with a promise of a promised land.
Thus, the wickedness of the people drove him out of the land.
Is 2 Nephi 1:4 a vision of Lehi expecting to lose his life by the hands of the wicked Israelites in
Jerusalem or by the Babylonians?Thanks,
Jim -
On 8/26/2019 at 5:01 PM, JohnsonJones said:
I think today there is a lack of emphasis of the Book of Mormon in the Church
One part of Mr. Benson's speech said, "If the early Saints were rebuked for treating the Book of Mormon
lightly, are we under any less condemnation if we do the same?"After reading some church literature, it seems they started to put less emphasis on the Book of Mormon
and other standard works, and instead focused more on what was being said in the present. -
22 hours ago, scottyg said:
If it is said by the Prophet in a setting such as General Conference, then yes. If the teaching of a prophet is published in a church manual, then yes...however, policy changes with time, and statements from past Prophets may be changed to better serve members of the present day.
Does this mean that at some future time, the LDS Church may teach that Heavenly
Father was not a man who became a God? Or is this an LDS doctrinal truth that cannot
be forsaken by its members?Thanks,
Jim -
On 8/23/2019 at 12:07 PM, scottyg said:
“The Lord said, ‘Whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same,’”
Does this indicate that everything said at General Conference by a servant or printed in a manual
to record a previous teaching of an LDS president is really the voice of the Lord and that it must
be viewed as a true gospel principle or doctrine.Thanks,
Jim -
On 7/17/2019 at 6:13 PM, Just_A_Guy said:
I didn’t say they were familiar with the endowment ceremony.
Let me rephrase my question on your earlier post:
"I believe Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Peter, John, etc. were familiar with the endowment;
and certainly the concepts of the endowment covenants turn up all over the scriptures."What specifically is the endowment and these endowment ceremonies they were familiar with and
would you mention a few of the scriptures you are referring to?Thanks,
Jim -
On 7/13/2019 at 10:36 PM, Just_A_Guy said:
So yes, I believe Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Peter, John, etc. were familiar with the endowment; and certainly the concepts of the endowment covenants turn up all over the scriptures.
Which scriptures indicate they were familiar with the endowment ceremony?
Thanks,
Jim
Questions about LDS rules
in LDS Gospel Discussion
Posted
In addition to the Word of Wisdom, Gospel Principles says "Our prophets have told us that we should not shop, hunt, fish,
attend sports events, or participate in similar activities on that day."
I'm not LDS myself, but if I were, I'd say it is important to follow the guidance given by prophets if it is supported by the
scriptures. But personally, I would go on a Sunday fishing trip to share the gospel with a non-believer if that opportunity
arose.
Jim