theplains

Isaiah 2:2 - "And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it." Former LDS President Hinckley said the Salt Lake City temple may have been the fulfillment of the words of Isaiah (https://www.lds.org/ensign/1989/11/an-ensign-to-the-nations?lang=eng). One could say it was a dual prophecy but I think a single prophecy is implied by Isaiah one verse earlier - "The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem." Isaiah 1:1 has similar words. "The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah". Is Isaiah also talking about the inhabitants of that western part of the world (now called Salt Lake City) who lived in the days of Judah's kings? Thanks, Jim

What opposition did the plants and animals have in the Garden of Eden? Thanks, Jim

I saw some guidelines mentioned in Gospel Principles: "Never speculate about Church doctrine. Teach only what is supported by the scriptures, the words of latter-day prophets and apostles, and the Holy Spirit (see D&C 42:12–14; 52:9). If you have been called to teach a quorum or class using this book, do not substitute outside materials, however interesting they may be. Stay true to the scriptures and the words in the book. Jim

Hi Georgia, The 1997 version of Gospel Principles says in chapter 2, "Our heavenly parents provided us with a celestial home more glorious and beautiful than any place on earth. We were happy there. Yet they knew we could not progress beyond a certain point unless we left them for a time." The 2009 version words it a little differently - "Our Heavenly Father knew we could not progress beyond a certain point unless we left Him for a time." Later in chapter 4, the 1997 version says, "In the premortal life we were free agents. That means we had power to act for ourselves." The 2009 version words it a little differently - "In our premortal life we had moral agency." What other choices of good and evil do you believe the spiritual children of heavenly parents used their agency on? Thanks, Jim

How were Adam and Eve able to feel pleasure without first knowing pain? What emotions do you believe Adam and Eve felt towards each other and towards God (as they worshipped Him) before the fall in the Garden? Thanks, Jim

The heroin addict feels pleasure (joy) on the way up. Then misery on the way down.

It's not a question of knowing the difference between good and evil. Its a question of whether you want to obey God.

Not really. No one forced Adam and Eve to disobey God. They were given the freedom to choose. And they had plenty of other trees for food. Jim

This is not stated but implied. We are free to choose for ourselves whether to commit adultery, etc, or not. Your belief concludes that God really wanted and needed Adam and Eve to disobey Him so they could begin their progression.  Where? Give me one example where pleasure does not bring joy? As for Adam and Eve, they felt pleasure at the sight of the trees God had created (Genesis 2:9 - And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food). Also, Eve experienced pleasure when looking at the forbidden fruit. If we still don't agree, then would you explain how they felt pleasure without misery? What is the opposite of pleasure? Jim

Wouldn't it be appropriate to re-word this to: "The purpose of this life is to prepare to become a god like Heavenly Father?" Jim

No. But she knew God had forbidden eating of that tree. Jim

Do you believe God considered it good or evil when Eve fell to Satan’s temptation? Thanks, Jim

Based on your explanation of what “good for food” is, I don’t think Eve was tempted with food to satisfy her hunger as she already had plenty of other trees to eat from. I would say that besides getting her to disbelieve what God had said, Satan also tempted Eve by insinuating it was unfair of God to withhold something from her. The 1997 GP says, "All good things come from God. Everything that he does is to help his children become like him—a god.). I think Satan dangled this temptation (becoming as deity) in front of her instead of the way ‘god’ (non-deity) is used of him in 2 Corinthians 4:4. This is the second time pleasure is mentioned before the Fall. First, God made trees that were pleasant to the sight of man and then the second where Eve experienced pleasure before partaking. There is scriptural support for Adam and Eve feeling pleasure (joy) before they had experience misery. Why didn't God want Adam and Eve to eat from that tree? Why weren’t Eve’s eyes opened the moment she ate and before Adam ate? Thanks, Jim

Your comparison of a child molester is not appropriate unless the child made a consent to be molested. God left Adam and Eve alone with Satan because Satan could not harm them if they remained obedient to Him. As the New Testament teaches, God is even able to provide a way out in our own temptations ... if we choose to follow Him. Jim

Thanks for the correction. You make a valid point. Jim

Why do you think Eve chose to believe Satan instead of God? I think the devil's real temptation was to convince her that she could become a god and her desire got the best of her. Jim

I believe seeking knowledge beyond the boundary set by God was the beginning of their downfall. This plus the fact that they didn't believe God when he said they would die when they ate from the forbidden tree. Do you believe God really wanted them to eat from the forbidden tree? Have you ever disobeyed God and then received blessings for disobedience? Jim

I'm assuming breaking a moral law equals sin in your context. What moral laws do you believe Adam, Eve, and their children lived by when Abel was killed? Was murder the first sin committed or do you believe Adam and his descendants committed other sins before the slaying of Abel? Jim

I believe Adam and Eve both sinned when they disobeyed God in the Garden of Eden (many LDS teachings also state this) so I don't honor them for what some would consider a wise choice. As for the idea Adam partook to remain with Eve, there is no scriptural evidence that Adam and Eve knew they were going to be expelled from the Garden until God pronounced judgment on both of them at the same time. Also, there is no indication Adam would forever remain single in the Garden had he chosen to remain obedient to God. Jim

It would not be wise to honor Paul for consenting and/or participating in the murder/imprisonment of the early Christians. I also wouldn't honor someone who chooses to disobey God's command unless God told that person to stop an act because it was a test of faith (as in the case of Abraham being told to sacrifice his son Isaac). Jim

What was the first moral law to be broken and who broke it? Jim

About your use of the word 'both.' ... does this mean you believe God only created two trees in the Garden of Eden? Jim

I had some questions about this Conference talk. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1993/10/the-great-plan-of-happiness?lang=eng "Our understanding of life begins with a council in heaven. There the spirit children of God were taught his eternal plan for their destiny. We had progressed as far as we could without a physical body and an experience in mortality." How were they progressing without a physical body? "For reasons that have not been revealed, this transition, or “fall,” could not happen without a transgression—an exercise of moral agency amounting to a willful breaking of a law (see Moses 6:59). This would be a planned offense, a formality to serve an eternal purpose. The Prophet Lehi explained that “if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen” (2 Ne. 2:22), but would have remained in the same state in which he was created." Besides being called a "planned offense", was the Fall a "God-ordained, God-desired offense?" Is there a difference between moral agency and agency? If an exercise of moral agency (such as a willful breaking of a law) produces transgression, what can agency produce? Thanks, Jim

The current version of Gospel Principles omits this statement so I refer back to the 1997 version. Chapter 6, page 33 says, "Because of their transgression, Adam and Eve also suffered spiritual death. This meant they and their children could not walk and talk face to face with God. Because Satan had introduced evil into the world, Adam and Eve and their children were separated from God both physically and spiritually." How did Satan introduce evil into the world? The Religion 327 - The Pearl of Great Price Student Manual says, "Some Christians condemn Eve for her act, concluding that she and her daughters are somehow flawed by it. Not the Latter-day Saints! Informed by revelation, we celebrate Eve’s act and honor her wisdom and courage in the great episode, called the Fall ... " If you consider any temptation to disobey God to be evil, it is wise to honour someone who follows evil? Thanks, Jim

Thank you for the 'welcomes.' Jim