GaleG
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Posts posted by GaleG
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On 9/30/2018 at 4:02 PM, Telemantros said:
A Gospel that Crushes?
IV. Sum:
So, now you know where I’m coming from. Maybe you feel crushed too from all of the works and requirements asked of you just to be saved. So, to sum, I ask, “Does the LDS crush your spirit?” Because I think there is a better understanding of salvation, and that is simply that Jesus paid for your sins on the cross because you couldn’t do it yourself. And that is a gift to you, and it is a gift that will transform your soul and make you want to follow Jesus like you, perhaps, you never have before.
Sincerely,
Tele
After reading all you wrote one thing crushing me is the if/then condition of Moroni 10:32. That grace is
foreign to me from my Catholic background.Gale
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On 12/3/2018 at 4:02 PM, Carborendum said:
First thing is that there are two fountains. One of living water and one of filthy water. The fountain of living water is basically a spring coming from the roots of the tree of life. And the waters thereof are the Love of God. And if zil's description is correct (that it is synonymous with the tree of life) then the image I get is that this "glowing tree of life" emanates a light that flows like water. (Pretty picture if you think about it.)
Thank you Carborendum.
That was my first impression but then I didn't see a plural form. The use of the footnotes was confusing.
Gale
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On 12/3/2018 at 5:22 PM, Carborendum said:
What he doesn't understand is that this wasn't a murder. It was an execution. God is the King of Kings. He is the ultimate governing authority. He has the right to decide who lives and who dies because He is the only one who can have perfect knowledge and perfect judgment in the matter.
CREDIT: The following was something @Vort said a while back. But I've pondered this for a while and have decided that I agree with it.
- When Laman first went to visit Laban to ask for the plates, Laban said 1) You're a thief and 2) I'm going to kill you for being a thief.
- When they visited Laban the second time to try to BUY the plates with all their wealth, Laban became a thief, and still tried to kill them all to hide the fact.
- The third time, the Lord pronounced sentence. Laban was a thief and pronounced judgment upon him by his own standards.
"Judge not lest ye be judged. For with that same judgment with which ye judge, ye shall also be judged."
I'll rephrase the question then. Was Nephi the only person ever commanded by the Holy Ghost to execute a
defenseless man?Thank you,
Gale
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Hello,
Would you help me understand these verses. It took a long time to gather my thoughts
because I was going back and forth with all the related footnote references.
According to my reading, Lehi saw a river of water and it near a tree of which he
was eating some white fruit (1 Nephi 8:10-13). He also saw a rod of iron extending
along the bank of the river which led to the tree of the white fruit (verses 19-20).
Others come, grab a hold of the rod of iron on the straight and narrow path, and
are led to the same tree and they also eat of the white fruit (verses 24,30).
In 1 Nephi 11:25, I see the same rod of iron and the fountain/river of water, which
led to the tree of life. Here the waters and tree of life are said to represent the
love of God.
It gets confusing in chapter 12, verses 16-17 and chapter 15, verses 26-29.
"And the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold the fountain of filthy water which thy
father saw; yea, even the (b)river of which he spake; and the depths thereof are
the depths of hell. And the mists of darkness are the temptations of the devil,
which blindeth the eyes, and hardeneth the hearts of the children of men, and
leadeth them away into broad roads, that they perish and are lost".
The river's depths are associated with the depths of hell (evil). Contrary to the
narrow path for the saved, the broad roads are taken by the lost.
In my Book of Mormon, the footnote for (b)river refers back to 1 Nephi 8:13. But
1 Nephi 8:13 is said to be living waters/river, not a filthy river whose depths are
the depths of hell. The same mist of darkness in 1 Nephi 12:17 corresponds to the
same mist of darkness in 1 Nephi 8:24. It seems the mist of darkness is coming from
the filthy waters as it leads people to wander and be lost.
1 Nephi 8:32 says "And it came to pass that many were drowned in the depths of the
(b)fountain; and many were lost from his view, wandering in strange roads".
I see a reference to the depths of the fountain and the depths of the filthy river
now. But the footnote for (b)fountain [i.e. filthy] is linked again back to 1 Nephi
8:13-14.
"And as I cast my eyes round about, that perhaps I might discover my family also, I
beheld a river of water; and it ran along, and it was near the tree of which I was
partaking the fruit.
Lehi wanted to know the source of this river.
"And I looked to behold from whence it came; and I saw the head thereof a little
way off; and at the head thereof I beheld your mother Sariah, and Sam, and Nephi;
and they stood as if they knew not whither they should go".
The 'river' that Lehi's sees in the vision in 1 Nephi 8:13 also has a footnote to
1 Nephi 15:26-29 - "And they said unto me: What meaneth the (26a) river of water
which our father saw? And I said unto them that the (27a) water which my father
saw was filthiness; and so much was his mind swallowed up in other things that he
beheld not the filthiness of the water. And I said unto them that it was an awful
gulf, which separated the wicked from the tree of life, and also from the saints
of God. And I said unto them that it was a representation of that awful hell, which
the angel said unto me was prepared for the wicked".
The gulf of the filthy water separates the wicked from the tree of life so this
would seem to agree with the separation that I see in 1 Nephi 8:26 and 12:18.
The footnote 26a for river of water links back to 1 Nephi 8:13 (river of living
water), which verse 27 says are really the waters of filthiness. Footnote 27a (the
water of filthiness) is also linked back to the filthy waters of 1 Nephi 12:16-17.
1 Nephi 15:27 is also confusing - "And I said unto them that the water which my
father saw was filthiness; and so much was his mind swallowed up in other things
that he beheld not the filthiness of the water".
This seems to say Lehi misinterpreted his vision - he didn't see a river of living
water but it was actually a filthy river and this river of water really didn't
represent the love of God.
From reading the account of Lehi's vision, Lehi and those who partake of the fruit
have no interaction with the water for they are not drowned in it. Those who enter
the filthy water (the filthy river) are either drowned or enter on the lost side.
Please explain.
Thank you,
Gale -
On 11/17/2018 at 9:10 PM, dogwater said:
This story bothers me.
I think it's a story of Nephis failure, not his success. There were a number of solutions to the problem. Buying them was one. I think the 4 brothers were sent together to get them so they could do a mass transcription while paying laban for the privilege.
Nephi could even have written them out via revelation. There was more than one solution. But nephi fixated on the plates of Laban which were believed original but that seems unlikely.I believe God would have facilitated most any solution but Nephi seems to not have been thinking outside the box much. Death, deception as tools of God strike me as human failure getting patched up by God rather than God's ideal path.
Zoram could have been added to any of the paths I suspect.
Not sure I understand. Are you saying Nephi was the only person commanded by the Holy Ghost to
kill a defenseless man?Gale
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On 11/13/2018 at 4:09 PM, Anddenex said:
Excellent! I have never reviewed Larry Anderson's shortened work. As a personal choice, I don't read member abridgements of the Book of Mormon. I would recommend reading the "Book of Mormon Stories" -- child's addition -- that is published by the Church if you want a condensed version to understand the story that is happening. If you think this will help you understand, then by all means read it, if you haven't already.
Thank you. I'll check it out.
Gale
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3 minutes ago, Fether said:
In our language, it could be read as “Laban had the Old Testament up until the book of Jeremiah (who was the prophet at the time). From what I understand, copies of the scripture were not common in house holds. Laban, who was related to them, had a record of their genealogy and the scriptures up to that point in time.
I think it was just a familial genealogy that he was interested in that only Laban had. Im sure there were more scripture but that copy had his family’s genealogy.
I would assume so, I am under the impression that tribes were a pretty big deal among the time period
The Nephites
Thank you.
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On 11/7/2018 at 9:10 PM, Carborendum said:
We Latter-day Saints referred to the Jews as "Gentiles". Isn't that odd? So, SLC became known as "the only place in the world where Jews were considered Gentiles."
I haven't read much of the Book of Mormon yet. Are all the Israelite tribes referred to as Gentiles there
too? Is Salt Lake City the only place or are there other places in the United States where Jews are
considered Gentiles too?Thank you,
Gale
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On 11/6/2018 at 9:06 PM, Carborendum said:
1. How do you know he didn't? Not everything that happened is necessarily written down. Where on earth did they eat and drink? Where did they go to the bathroom? If they left their wealth, what else did they leave behind? Why wasn't that written down?
2. Was the angel REQUIRED to rebuke them for hitting Sam as well? By what standard? Under whose direction?
3. We have no idea of the details of this beat-down. It could have been that Sam was just "shoved aside". And Nephi didn't want to diminish Sam's persecution, so he said he got beat as well (shoving someone is beating them after a fashion). Then they just started to wallop on Nephi because he was the embodiment of their anger. Then, only after Nephi was beginning to get severely injured did the angel show up. That was how I saw it when I first read it many years ago.
If we ASSUME that I'm right in this interpretation, the severity of Sam's "beating" was just another day with Laman and Lemuel. But Nephi was in danger of losing his life.
Thank you Carborendum.
1] I see what you mean. 2] Don't know. I just saw that there was no rebuke at all. 3] Makes sense. Seems
Nephi was more in danger of losing his life than Sam.Gale
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Hello,
Would you help me understand these verses in context.
"For behold, Laban hath the record of the Jews and also a genealogy of my forefathers,
and they are engraven upon plates of brass" (1 Nephi 3:3).
"And after they had given thanks unto the God of Israel, my father, Lehi, took the
records which were engraven upon the plates of brass, and he did search them from
the beginning. And he beheld that they did contain the five books of Moses, which
gave an account of the creation of the world, and also of Adam and Eve, who were
our first parents; And also a record of the Jews from the beginning, even down to
the commencement of the reign of Zedekiah, king of Judah" (1 Nephi 5:12).
What does it mean "a record of the Jews from the beginning"? When did the Jewish
record begin?
Were Laban's brass plates the only source of genealogy in all of Israel available
to Lehi? Did Lehi know which tribe he was from as he was growing up?
"And it came to pass that the Spirit said unto me again: Slay him, for the Lord
hath delivered him into thy hands; Behold the Lord slayeth the wicked to bring
forth his righteous purposes. It is better that one man should perish than that
a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief" (1 Nephi 4:13).
What nation did not perish in unbelief by the death of Laban?
Thank you,
Gale -
4 minutes ago, Carborendum said:
Waitaminute. Dinosaurs were unionized?!?! No wonder they went extinct!!!
😀
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On 11/4/2018 at 4:51 PM, zil said:
I see nothing in the account that says Lehi was commanded to leave the riches behind. So, maybe the Lord commanded it, or maybe Lehi just decided food was going to be more useful than the money, since they were headed into the wilderness, not off to the big city. Personally, I think it was Lehi's decision, not an explicit command of the Lord. I'm willing to be wrong, if someone has more explicit verses on this topic.
I was referring to this verse - "therefore let us go down to the land of our father’s inheritance, for
behold he left gold and silver, and all manner of riches. And all this he hath done because of the
commandments of the Lord".Gale
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On 11/4/2018 at 6:47 PM, Carborendum said:
Did you read the sentence just before that which you quoted?
Thank you. I did some research and found that scientists also believe there was a strike in that area.
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On 11/4/2018 at 3:30 PM, Jane_Doe said:
Back in Old Testament times, a person who was a of Abraham's decent/covenant was known as a Jew. People not of this decent/covenant were known as Gentiles. In New Testament times, the Gospel is to be preached to all people, regardless of ancestry, so the term has gotten away from the decent part and focused more on the covenant part-- in other words those whom have embraced the Gospel, and those that haven't.
Longer explanation: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/gentile?lang=eng
Thank you Jane.
I looked at link but it didn't mention who the Gentile in the introduction page is.
Gale
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7 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:
That would be the asteroid that scientists believe ended the reign of the dinosaurs.
Thank you. I had heard about India.
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On 10/4/2018 at 7:31 PM, Just_A_Guy said:
Uchtdorf’s “Behold the Man” from last conference doesn’t exactly fit the bill for being geared towards men, but it’s pretty good about not presuming the listener is strongly versed in Mormon theology.
What does this mean?
"The responses ranged from surprising and strange to insightful and thought-provoking. Among them, the
day when a prehistoric asteroid struck the Yucatán Peninsula"https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2018/04/behold-the-man?lang=eng
Thank you,
Gale
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Hello,
I received my Book of Mormon and started reading it. For a good summary has
anyone reviewed Larry Anderson's "2 Hour Book of Mormon"?
The Introduction page mentions the plates sealed by the hand of Moroni and hid
up unto the Lord, to come forth in due time by way of the Gentile".
Who is this Gentile?
Other questions comes from reading the attempt to get some plates from Laban.
Lehi tells Nephi the Lord commanded him that Nephi and his brothers would go to
Laban's house and get the plates (1 Nephi 3:3-4). Lehi tells Nephi he is the
chosen one to get the plates because he was favoured by God for not murmuring like
his brothers (verse 6). Nephi confirms he is willing to obey the Lord as
commanded (verse 7).
What happened in the mind of Nephi in so short a time that he already begins to
doubt or disbelieve the Lord? Going contrary to what he said and believed earlier,
why does he then disobey the Lord's command and consult with his brothers and cast
lots to see who would actually go into Laban's house to retrieve the plates (verses
10-11)? After the lot fell to Laman, Nephi continues his disobedience by staying
back and allowing Laman to go by himself. Then, he begins to feel sorrow when Laman
is not able to get the plates in the first attempt (verse 14). Earlier he believed
he and not Laman, was favoured of the Lord to get the plates so its unclear why he
personally would be sorrowful.
Verse 16 is also puzzling - "Wherefore, let us be faithful in keeping the commandments
of the Lord; therefore let us go down to the land of our fathers inheritance, for
behold he left gold and silver, and all manner of riches. And all this he hath done
because of the commandments of the Lord."
Assuming Lehi was commanded by the Lord to leave all the family riches back home,
why did Nephi disobey God's command to his father into now retrieving these riches
in an attempt to get the plates since God never commanded this?
Verse 24 shows that Nephi is back on track; now obedient in that all the brothers
go into Laban's house this time (the second attempt).
In verses 28 and 29, why did the angel rebuke Laman and Lemuel for hitting Nephi
with a rod but left out any rebuke for beating their youngest brother Sam?
Thank you,
Gale -
The first time I watched this movie at home, it was through looking through peepholes in my clasped hands as they covered my
face. The second time (or third time?), I had no fear and was laughing in some parts. That's the lure of the devil ... he had made evil
ok to watch and nonthreatening. These days I wouldn't even watch it. As for another movie, I have never even felt comfortable to
watch Rosemary's Baby. -
11 hours ago, pam said:
Did you have something you'd like to tell us about yourself as an introduction?
Hello, I used to be a roman catholic, then turned a little to Taoism. I'm here to see how what this faith is about. I asked
someone at mormon.org to send me a Book of Mormon but not really comfortable to talk to missionaries in person just
yet.Thanks Pam.
- zil, Jane_Doe, Midwest LDS and 1 other
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Slaying Laban to get the plates
in Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints
Posted
Thank you Folk.