MadHatter

Hi Mad,I think I read everything, and it was interesting as there were things I wasn't aware of before. I do have a question about the above quote. It's my understanding that people who are not married/sealed on earth will still have a chance to do so in the CK. Therefore they won't be ministering angels, and will be eligible for the highest level of the kingdom. Do you disagree? Thanks, Elphaba I have heard mixed reviews on this, I am not exactly sure but i lean towards the scriptures on this because of the bit about "they neither marry nor are given in marriage" when describing the afterlife. It could be in regards to those who had the chances in the marry but refused, and that the people who honestly tried but could not get married for one reason or another. I believe God is merciful on his children and will give them the opportunitites they never had here.

Outer Darkness Outer Darkness is an appropriate discription because it is not a kingdom of glory. Those who are condemned to outer darkness will remain in a state of filthiness. And will go away into that awful state of endless torment; and their torment will be as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascended up forever and ever and has no end. There will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. Just as you have to work towards the celestial kingdom, same applies to outer darkness. You must become a Son of Perdition to be condemned here. What are the requirements of becoming a Son of Perdition? 1) Know God's power and be made a partaker of it. 2) Allow themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome. 3) Defy God's power. 4) Deny the truth. 5) Deny the Holy Spirit after they have recieved it. 6) Deny the Atonement of Jesus Christ 7) Deny the Son after the Father has revealed Him. President George Q. Cannon taught: Brigham Young taught the same thing. He asked, Charles W. Penrose made the same connection (Conference Report, October 1914; and April 1917) Elder Orson F. Whitney, Abraham H. Cannon, and James E. Talmage, all concurred with similar statements. Wilford woodruff also concurred on separate occasions. References: Gospel Themes and Saturday Night Thoughts by Orson F. Whitney, Deseret New Press 1914 and 1921 respectively. Abraham H. Cannon Journal 29th November 1893, Harold B. Lee Library, BYU Special Collections. Journal of Discourses 22:208, 2:301

Telestial Kingdom The telesital kingdom is typified by the "glory" or light that radiates from the stars. According to Joseph Smith and Sydney Rigdon, that even though the telestial world is the lowest of the three kingdoms of light its glory still "surpasses all understanding." The majority of people on this earth will only achieve this glory. There will also be different levels of light and understanding in this sphere, each person will be different, just as one star's light differs from another's. Who will be the ones to attain this glory? 1) They did not receive the prophets. 2) They did not receive the testimony of Jesus 3) They did not receive the Gospel Joseph Smith also stated that the inhabitants of the telestial world "went their own way" and "worshipped in darkness." These people may have accepted certain biblical people - like Moses, Peter, and Paul - or even formally joined a religious denomination, but they "never received the [true] gospel of Jesus Christ" (stanzas 70-72) 4) They did not recieve "the Everlasting Covenant" The Prophet indicates that this is a refrence to "the covenant...which Jacob once had" meaning the Abrahamic covenant (stanza 71) 5) They were horrible sinners. Joseph Smith adds upon this that hypocrites, thieves, the mean-spirited, the materialistic, and the proud will share the same fate as the "sinful" and the "wicked" in the lowest kingdom of glory (stanzas 60, 73). The Prophet Joseph Smith says that those who attain this glory will find themselves burned at the second coming of Christ and will not be allowed to remain on the earth during the Lord's millennial reign. They are put into spirit prison after they die and are not redeemed from the devil until after the resurrection. Nevertheless they did not deny the Holy Spirit, so they are not confined to Outer Darkness after their resurrection. It is stated that they will receive "Of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial" kingdom; they will "receive it of the administering of angels who are appointed to minister for them." Those who reside in the Telestial world will become servants of the most High. But their abilities and opportunities will be considerably limited. fort he rest of eternity they will not be allowed or able to go where God and Christ dwell. Elder Melvin J. Ballard of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles said that "...One who gains possession of the lowest degree of the telestial glory may ultimately arise to the highest degree of that glory, but no provision has been made for promotion from one glory to another.

Terrestrial Kingdom This degree of glory is typified by the "glory" or light that radiates from the moon. Yet it is still an amazing place: The Prophet also added to this that terrestrial inhabitants will possess "more knowledge, and wisdom, and joy" than those in the telestial world, and have greater access to the Lord's "blessings and graces" (stanza 65). Terrestrial inhabitants will receive "the ministration of the Celestial" sphere and will also have "the presence of the Son" of God. Who will obtain the Terrestrial Glory? 1) Those who "died without law" Joseph Smith indicates in D&C 76 that this has reference to the "heathen" nations. (stanza 54) 2) Those who did not receive "the testimony of Jesus in the flesh" but did so in the spirit "prison" when they heard it again (stanza 56). 3) Those who were "not valliant in the testimony of Jesus." Elder Bruce R. McConkie believes that this last category includes "those who are lukewarm members of the true church... who have testimonies, but are not true and faithful in all things." (New Witness for the Articles of Faith, pg. 146) Spencer W. Kimball also has the same viewpoint. He interpited verse 79 to mean that "many [Latter-day Saints] who have recieved baptism by proper authority, many who have recieved other ordinances, even temple blessings, will not reach the celestial kingdom of glory unless [they] live the commandments and are valliant." (Conference Report, April 1951, pg 104) President Charles W. Penrose, said of "the terrestrial kingdom" that "there are several degrees in that one glory" (CR April 1922, 29-30)

Joseph Fielding Smith said: Those who do not abide by the Eternal Covenant but are still worthy of the Celestial kingdom, are recieved into the 2nd level of the Celestial kingdom. Little scriptural refrence is given regarding the exact nature of the difference between the bottom two tiers, But there is hypothesis that children who die before the age of accountability are recieved into the lowest level of the celestial kingdom. What Exactly happens in the Celestial Kingdom? The nature of Exalted beings in the celestial kingdom is: 1) God Makes them "Perfect" through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ 2) God gives them all things into thier hands. 3) God makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion. 4) They overcome all things. 5) They recieve a "fullness of light" (stanza 45). 6) They "hold the keys of the kingdom of heaven" (stanza 44).

Celestial Kingdom The Celestial kingdom is typified by the "glory"or light that radiates from the Sun (D&C 76:70). This realm "excels in all things" because "God, even the Father, reigns upon his throne" (v.92). The Earth will become the Celestial Kingdom and become like the Urim and Thummim. And hence the certain temple ceremony in which you will recieve the key word that unlocks this for you. By utilizing the earth and the stone celestial beings will be able to "see as they are seen, and know as they are known." 3 Degrees within the Celestial Kingdom What are the Minimum Requirements for entering into the lowest degree of the celestial kingdom? #1: Believe Jesus Christ and have a true testimony. #3: Be baptized, receive the Holy Ghost and be cleansed from all their sins. #4: Abide the law of the celestial kingdom, which is the law of Christ and do all of the commandments he has given. #5: Overcome the World by faith. But this is only for the lowest there are other ordinances which must be done to enter into the middle or highest level within the celestial kingdom. The 2nd level is that for ministering angels, those who did not abide the New and Everlasting covenant of Eternal Marriage.

It is personal choice on wither to pay on the Net or the Gross. Here's an example, do you pay tithing on interest gained through stocks and dividends, or your 401K? how do you calculate your tithing on the money you earn on interest in your 401K, that is alot of money. I pay tithing on my Net, and any money that ends up in my pocket, all of the money i recieve from any source i give 1/10th of that to the Lord. no matter how you pay your tithing, it shoudl always be done 1st thing, not at the end of the year, because you never know what will happen. that's my personal opinion, of course it is between you and the lord, but as for me and my house we pay our tithing first thing, i don't even count on that money being there. Also another reason i pay tithing on the net is that i will always feel as if i need to pay tithing, so i won;t ever sit back at any poitn in my life and stop paying tithing, the blessings that coem from it are too great and i see them in my every day life.

The Doctrine of Poligamy also states that a Man shall onyl have 1 wife, unless commanded of God. If it is expedient for a man to have more than one wife for whatever purpose then it is acceptable, but the Lord even said, that a Man shall onyl have one wife unless he says so (D&C 132). Black's and the priesthood, it was always prophesied that there would be a time in which people who were black would be able to hold the priesthood. brigham young prophesied that the time would come. so did every other prophets untill Spencer W. Kimball was told it was time. we do not know why there was a restriction, but there was. And it is not because of the "curse of Cain" that would be in conteadiction with scriptures in the bible that state that the Sins of the father in nowise are the responsibility of the son. The prophets have not led us astray, the prophets have shortcomings because they are human, i'm sure they repent all the time, being in a position as such not only puts a magnifying glass on you, but also you place on on yourself to be sure you are not being a hypocrite. Spencer W. Kimball also said that "If we all waitied untill we were perfect to speak on a subject then nothing would ever be said." (it's probably not verbatim but i can't find the refrence at the moment. we are always told to pray for ourselves, to never trust in the flesh, to only trust in the Lord, and find the perfect structure of truth for ourselves, if something was going to be said that would cause true anarchy in the church the Lord would take them out of office very promptly.

Excommunication and Disfellowshipment are to help the person along in the repentance process. Excommunication is a release of your covenants you made with God, it is not a "condemnation" like some people think it is.

The probem is that it's a proven fact that the order of Bishop was given to Ignatius of Antioch, but his order was still a lesser order of priesthood authority, they cannot be in "apostolic sucession" because an apostle did not form thier church. also they have never carried forth the office of Apostle nor did they recieve the authority.

I suggest you read "The Miracle of Forgiveness" by Spencer W. Kimball, you would understand the greviousness of Sin and the effects and the gravity of your situation, then you would understand why you need to repent. That book does a very good job of making you feel guilty.

It is honestly a case by case basis. to be frank, I am so greatful that the Lord did not see fit to excommunicate me for the serious things of which i did in my youth, I am greatful that only a couple months of disfellowshipping were required.

It is my own personal opinion that Ignatius actually did hold the keys to the Aaronic Priesthood, but not that of the MP. The first position of POPE and the reason they named it as such, was actually PAPA which is a Latin abbreviation for "Father of Fathers" Which later turned to POPE. which is a position created by the Bishops of the Catholic church. And eventually the Aaronic priesthood was lost (except for the Levite direct decendants) because of wickedness, and perverting of the doctrined and ordinances.

you know i sent a request for access to those forums but nobody ever responded or accepted it.

Yes of course we need to care for one another, and this country is a capitalist country and is on the wrong track. I actually think Clinton did alot of good for this country as president, i would vote for him again if he could run, his wife on the other hand, not so much. The current list of presidential candidates of the democratic party are horrible choices and they all are competing on the basis of "how fast can i bring the troops home." They don't realize that if you pull them out ostentaciously like that, we are going to need to send them back to iraq, and the U.S. will never be taken seriously again. we will be attacked by Iraq, and Iran and this whole world is going to get screwed up hard.

oh yeah, cause gay marriage and socialized healthcare is what Christ wants for his children. Wrong. Yes, actually i would love to see Christ Come again, but the world isn't ready for that Yet. too many people would be lost. too many people would not be ready.

Democrats are goin gto screw up our country Royaly, so if you want christ to come sooner, vote Democrat, otherwise, Vote for Romney.

Thanks Isaac, it means alot to me., I also edited my post, added another paragraph if you didn't read it

I too have felt the power of forgiveness and the atonement, not quite on the same level (stake president ect..). I had only recieved the Aaroinic priesthood and i went inactive about 17 years old. I had not yet been through the temple, but I had been baptised and did proxty baptisms, ect.... I spent 5 years totally inactive in the church, I did many many things of which i am not proud of. I even met my wonderful wife at a nightclub. then when we moved in together, we were getting pizza for dinner, and the missionaries for our ward were walking by and i had to ask them where the church house was, I never lost my testimony, i knew it to be true, i was just ashamed to go back and take responsibility. My wife is Catholic, but she supported me in my decision to go back to church and get my life straight. I talked with the bshop, and this sunday after general conference i will be able to partake of the sacrament again. I am so thankful i was no X'd and was only disfellowshipped. My wife has been a blessing to me through all of this, supporting me in what i'm doing. She's actualyl investigating the church now and loves going to relief society. I see her getting baptised here real soon, and she's even told me she wants our kids raised in the LDS church because of what she sees and the difference it has made in our life together. and she feels the spirit in only 3 places, Our house, her parent's house, and in the LDS church. So, Isaac, I know at least a portion of what you are feeling, the great accomplishement, the feeling is expressed perfectly by Alma the Younger when he comes out of his coma after the angel appears to him and his friends. the feeling of guilt swept away, as if those things never happened. the feeling of knowing you have turned your life around, It's amazing knowing that you can forget all those things and look forward holding to the iron Rod Walkign uprightly before the Lord, I did not feel that untill a recent Church meeting, where this great feeling as though i could stand before Heavenly Father and not feel ashamed because i forsake my old self and chose to walk the better path.

me too a-train, me too

If my wife was LDS, i would have gone to the temple not just because it's the temple, but because the blessing of eternal marriage is had NOWHERE else. you can say whatever vows you want but the only priesthood authority that can "bind things on earth and also in heaven" is that of the MP. If you can make it to the temple, you should go, if youa re both members of the church, you should have gone to the temple. the church does discourage civil services because of the nature of eternal families. Do not cheapen yourself by thinking you shouldn't be married in the temple.

It's a shame that you feel that way Aphrodite, I cannot wait to make my temple covenants. I donlt know why it seems so hard for people to live the laws of the temple, I can't wait to go and then return to the temple just to be in the temple and relax and talk with my ehavenly father for guidance in my life. I honestly can't wait. It is sad to see someone struggling as you are, I was inactuive for 7 years before i came back, I was in all kinds of lacivious behavior, and i ruined people's lives by being selfish. That is what happens when you don't like the commandments and keep yourself as close to the spirit as possible. It is hard, it takes sacrifice, it takes being humble and appreciateing what you will have later on in the eternities. you don't realize that by going to the temple and taking those covenants with the lord, you are then required to follow the commandments or be lost forever, there is no "liberal mormon" it's all or nothing, IF you take on those covenants in the temple and then you turn away from them and choose to disrespect them and disobey them, I hope you find your way back, i hope you don't loose sight of the Iron rod instead of being those who desire to dress in fancy clothings and partake of all the vanities of the world. you can't take those with you. the only thing you can take with you into the next world is your family and your knowledge, but that is only if you abide by the covenants you took in the temple. that is the only way.

My wedding was awesome, it was in the reliefe society room at my church,a nd the relief society decorated for us, it was definitely amazing, my wife is catholic and I am LDS, we did it in my church and by my bishop. he did the ring ceremony and the introduction, as well as gave us coincil on oru marriage (which he transcribed and gave us a copy, it;s on our fridge now) I would have not traded our wedding for anything. the only restrictions there were to the wedding was no filming or takign pictures during the actual ceremony itself, but everything was fine, you coudl also aduio-record the ceremony if you like, but no video taping or pictures. Which is understandable. The relief society gave us an amazing reception, with music and decorations and everything. My wedding was awesome and it was done in a LDS church by my LDS Bishop. i;m sorry if someone had a bad experience, but there are no regulations against decorations (except in the chapel) but in the chapel you can have a table with flowers and pictures and things of that nature, just no streamers, blaoons and stuff like that.

A Hatter with an attitude, eh? Personally, I like a good attitude, where people respect and value one another despite whether they disagree or not. sorry about the attitude, i shouldn't take it personally epsecially since it wasn't a respond to my posts.

We are saved by grace, after we have done everything we can do. This is Jsutice, and Mercy, you have to satisfy the means of justice before mercy can be of any use.