Teancum18

This is more so the point I am trying to make when I throw out a year like 2411. Obviously, I couldn't possibly know when it's going to be. I am just trying to say that it may not be in our lifetime, and that we shouldn't lose faith if it isn't.

So that was in reference to the prophet who would hold that mantle at the time of Christ's second coming?? Depending on age, 2012 might be too soon. But a short season after that would be... say 30-50 years.

Personally, I don't think it's for quite a few hundred more years. I agree with everyone who has mentioned that people before us always thought that it would happen in their lifetimes, yet didn't. So much still needs to happen. I know many people believe it is much closer. Many believe the Mayan calender is the most accurate, marking 2012 as 6,000 years since Adam fell. I do believe all that as well. However, Christ could come in the year 2411 and that would still be in the 6,000th year that the Second Coming was prophesied to occur in. Some other things to consider: - We know Heaven Father likes the numbers 3, 7, and 12... like, a lot. He likes prime numbers as well. John Taylor was the third Prophet. Heber J. Grant was the seventh Prophet. Spencer W. Kimball was the twelfth. Christ didn't come during any of them. President Monson is number 16. So it probably wont happen during his time. The next prime numbers are 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, 37, 41, 43, 47,and 53. The average time of service between the Prophets has been 11.3 years. So: 11 years to the 17th Prophet. 34 years to the 19th. (rounding 33.9 to 34) 79 years to the 23rd 147 years to the 29th 170 years to the 31st 237 years to the 37th 283 years to the 41st 305 years to the 43rd 350 years to the 47th 396 years to the 51st*... Catch my drift? - China and the Middle East will take at least 5 generations to sufficiently count them as a nation, kindred, and tongue that the gospel must reach before Christ comes again. More than likely, both will take longer. A generation is 30 years. 30 X 5 = 150. So once we get into those countries, add on another 150 years, not to mention how long it will take to actually get in them, each. And they probably wont happen at the same time. So it probably wont be until after the 29th Prophet. So at least 170 years is what we're probably looking at; at least! - The saints aren't even righteous enough for many of the prophecies to be fulfilled. Don't believe me, then ask yourself this: Why hasn't more scripture been revealed, yet? The lists go on. I'm not saying I'm right. Just that this is my logic behind my opinion. * This is when I personally think He will come. Then give this prophet 7 good years to carry out the final preparations. So you're looking at 403 years from now. The year 2411 A.D. Sorry people, not in our lifetimes. Besides, I'd rather be coming down with the armies of Christ, anyway. So that's the up side to all this.

Some dude did a video on all the evidences he believed indicated that the majority of the setting in the Book of Mormon took place from Michigan to Louisiana. My buddy is sending me the video, but everything I have heard about, I accept. Obviously, he is not saying it has been revealed to him. This guy is merely expressing his opinion based on when he interprets from the evidence. I hate to say it, but I have never digested very well the notion that the BOM took place in South America. The U.S. makes much more sense to me!! And for lots of reasons! Just thought I'd get the wheels turning.

Willow is right when she says that those who had the chance to hear the gospel in this life, and refused to, will not have the opportunity in the spirit world. So in a way. that's the answer to your question. Your question: why would I not accept the gospel in the spirit world? Answer: you will not have the opportunity to. Sorry, but it's true. Here is the clarification regarding who you will see in the spirit world. The Book of Mormon teaches us in chapter 40 of Alma that when a person dies, their spirit is brought before the God that created them. So yes, when you die, you will see God, the Father. However, there is no doctrine or scripture saying you will see Christ. At the same time, there is nothing indicating the opposite, either. We just don't know.

I agree with the reasons already given. I also think there are probably others we haven't thought of. Truthfully, I think it comes down to the passing of the torch more than anything else.

That is a very good question! God would never ask me to fly an airplane into a building.

Yeah, I still manhandle him every time. hehe

Yeah, I seriously thought you were a guy this whole time!!! Holy crap, I am retarded. Avatars help!! hahahahaha My apologies, Ma'am. It will not happen again, I assure you. :)

As long as you don't worship anything, or anyone, that inspires you to fly airplanes into buildings, I'm ok with that!

There was a reason I wanted to keep that a secret. Oh well.... Don't worry. I knew what you meant, lostnfound.

lostnfound, you rock, woman!! :)

So much for it being a secret hehe

Take your time, man. Or go as fast as you want. Don't let those guys pressure you into how to type. Especially when you and I know the truth. Don't worry, it's our secret. As for the Book of Mormon, I could almost care less if it's true or not. The teachings in it are priceless. If I found out the book never did come from God, I wouldn't care and would still read it. It would be the same as any other self-help book to me. I'm a better person because of it.

If someone else has already mentioned this, then that's the way it goes. DigitalShadow, I think the best way to answer that question is belief in God. Obviously, someone is only going to seek out religion if they believe in God. From there, a belief in God extends to a believe in an after life. Which means, if there is an after life, and we are alive now, where were we before we came here. I think those key concepts are at the root foundation of every individual's desire to seek out religion. As for the contentions between the various religions, well, the reasons for that are about as numerous are the stars in the sky. Now, here is something that will crank your gear: many people belief that religion only spawned because of evolution. The belief goes that mankind eventually evolved to a point where he could perceive his own death. So in order to cope with that, the idea of an after life was created. From there, God and religion. I for one disagree with that philosophical notion. However, you take it for what it's worth to you.

Yeah, he called this convention after I manhandled him in some major situations.

I am not entirely sure I know the precise meaning of your question. So I will answer as best I can, and then you can just ask more questions. Overall, the answer is yes. We still believe in the same gifts of the spirit that have always existed. The main reason for this is because we believe that Heavenly Father is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Secondly, our beliefs that the Heavens are still open include the girts of the spirit. Galatians 5:22-23 talks about the "fruits of the spirit," and we very much agree with those. Now, regarding your response about the authority and laying on of hands. This is a very difficult subject for many people. I totally agree with you that God gives it to who He wants. Having said that, I do believe that God, Himself was speaking with purpose when He said that "many are called, but few are chosen." Just like a judge in a court of law needs authority to act in behalf of the law and constitution, a man of God must have authority from Him to act in His behalf. Finally, as to who has that authority, LDS, Catholics, Protestants; the truth is, everyone really needs to study it out for themselves and then inquire of God to receive that answer. That's all I have for now.

I feel extremely and exponentially confident that this is not true; that someone is making up stories.

Hey, buddy! You're welcome. Let me see if I can add to this a little further. First things first: 1) the unbroken lineage is a tricky one. Yes, there is a documented lineage of the priesthood authority being handed down in the Catholic Church. Where it becomes an issue for debate is hierarchy. Two bishops within the Catholic Church (Orthodox at the time) ordained another person a Bishop. According to the stand point of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, a bishop cannot ordain another bishop. Only someone in higher authority, like an apostle for example, can ordain another Bishop. This is where our church believes the Orthodox church lost their authority. 2) The Protestant view is half correct. Faith in Christ and prayer is all an individual needs to receive personal guidance from Heavenly Father. And of course, the Holy Ghost. However, for one person to receive revelation for others, or a church as a whole, the Priesthood Authority is definitely needed, without question. Hebrews 5:4 eludes to this when making reference to Aaron. 3) So, while a person only needs faith and prayer and the spirit to receive revelation, much more is needed for a person to receive this authority. The laying on of hands, by one who is in authority, is absolutely required. Prayer and faith alone do not suffice, though they are absolutely needed once a person has this authority. The example of Christ ordaining His apostles by the laying on of hands is just one of many evidences of this. Just as a side note, I never could understand how so many Christian faiths claim that the heavens are sealed and no more will be sent, but then they turn around and claim that anyone can be sent this authority through faith and prayer?? Oh well... Hope I have helped you!

Much good came from this time period known as the Great Apostasy. For starters, the Bible was preserved. We it not for the Orthodox Church (not yet known as Catholicism), we wouldn't have the Bible. Throughout history, men like Martin Luther, King James, John Calvin, and many others came advocating religious freedom. Up until those times, religion was mandated and one creed was determined for everyone. These men advocating religious freedom paved the way for Christ's church to be restored. Many have wondered if Christopher Columbus was inspired to find the Americas. While the apostasy was still just beginning, the people of the Book of Mormon were still strong and writing about their religious experiences from God. It would be very contradictory of us to say that nothing spiritual was happening during this apostasy and then turn around and claim otherwise about the people in the Book of Mormon. Many scientific discoveries and inventions could be considered inspiration from God. There were some great advancements during the apostasy. Nothing like what we've seen since the church was restored, but you get what I mean. Many believe the founding father of the United States of America were very much inspired by God during the writing of the Declaration of Independence and the forming of our Constitution. They, themselves believed the same thing. The list goes on. Many wonderful things happened during the apostasy. It was just very difficult for people to worship how they wanted to and to find correct truth. Hope that helps.

I have often thought about the vast differences among the Christian world. I always notice how the beliefs of the different denominations, and non-denominations alike, have changed so much over the past two thousand years. Even more confounding to me is the changing of beliefs among the Christians themselves. Though they all center around a general belief in the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ; if you look at the life of an average Christian, the specifics of their beliefs change multiple times throughout the course of their lives. Obvious I can't speak for every single Christian on this planet, but from the life-long friends I have had, this has been my observation. Throughout our lives, it seems that many of us will follow a pattern of jumping around from idea to another, from one belief to the next. After one idea becomes old and doubted, we lose faith until we come to something else that is easy to believe because it's new and fresh. Then that idea becomes old and doubted and we repeat this life-long process. Brothers and sisters, that's not faith!! We're just convincing ourselves over and over again to keep some kind of faith because we feel a void in our lives. Now, this is a good thing to a degree, because that void is the truth we yearn for about our existence and our Father in Heaven. That is why this world needs, more than anything right now, to find solid, eternal truth. We can't be guessing and changing our beliefs all the time. So let me take some of the basics we know about Jesus Christ from the Bible*. As we know, "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever." (Hebrews 3:18) So how could so many beliefs be true when they're always changing? We're constantly wandering around in confusion. Are we to assume that the Eternal Father is the author of confusion? I say no! For Paul so solemnly declared, "God is not the author of confusion." (1 Corinthian 14:33) He has established a pattern for revealing truth and it begins with prophets. For Amos truly so testified, "Surely the Lord, God will do nothing, but He revealeth His secrets until His servants the prophets." (Amos 3:7) These prophets are righteous men called called by God to be His witnesses. (John 15:16; Exodus 28:1, 41; Mark 16:15-20; Jeremiah 1:5) When Christ was on the earth, He formed His church. It was "built on the foundation of apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone." (Ephesians 2:20) If He did not feel it important to establish a church, He would not have done so. Yet, He did so that His gospel could be taught. So that Heavenly Father's children "may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins." (2 Nephi 25:26) For there is "one Lord, one faith, and one baptism." (Ephesians 4:5) And unto that faith, "He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors; and some, teachers." (Ephesians 4:11) Their job was to lead and guide with correct principles of eternal truth. Heavenly Father wants us to come home to Him after this mortal life. He sends us these people to teach us about the plan He has created, that we must follow to return home to Him. These prophets and apostles also teach us about the central figure in this plan, Jesus Christ; "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) Christ, Himself even said, "I am the way the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me." (John 14:6) However, grace is not sufficient for us alone because we cannot be saved in our sins, only from our sins. "He [Christ] cannot save them in their sins. For I cannot deny His word, and He has said no unclean thing can enter His kingdom;" (Alma 11:37) which is "not of this world." (John 18:36) We, as Heavenly Father's children must always be trying to do the best we can: "Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father, which is in Heaven is perfect." (Matthew 5:48) But this is so hard, we all know. We need every bit of guidance we can get, which is just one more reason why Christ gave us His church: "for the perfecting of the saints [members], for the edifying of the body of Christ. (Ephesians 4:12-14) All the saints who are of the church of Christ must be edified together. For Christ so easily discerned, "if ye are not one, ye are not mine." (D&C 38:27; John 17:21-23; 1 Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 4:13) The thing to remember is that I am not trying to push my beliefs on anyone, or condemn anyone for what they believe. However, the truth must be spoken, as it has heretofore been. And "the guilty taketh the truth to be hard." (2 Nephi 16:2) I know this is truth because it is known by the power and feelings of the Holy Ghost: "but the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is now law." (Galatians 5:22-23) Through these feelings all of Heavenly Father's children may come to know the truthfulness of this message, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not. And it shall be given him." (James 1:5) Anyone can know the truths that Heavenly Father has to offer unto us. For I truly do agree with Alma, the younger, when he said, "Behold I have fasted and prayed many days that I might know these things of myself. (Alma 5:46) All we have to do is pray and ask Him and He will answer us. For He has said, "This [truth] I give unto you that ye not be deceived." (D&C 43:6) Sometimes we want to give up. We feel we wont find the answers we're looking for. Rest assured the truth is out there. We just have to find it, "For there are many on the earth among all sects, parties, and denominations... who are kept from the truth because they know not where to find it." (D&C 123:12) The prophet Amos prophesied of these times when he said, "For the time cometh, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but hearing the words of the Lord; and they shall wander from sea to sea, even from north to the east. They shall run to and fro, to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it." (Amos 8:11-12) These times are over now, and have long since passed. Now we're in our time, the fullness of times, and Heavenly Father has revealed His truth unto us once again, through modern-day prophets and apostles ("...He revealeth His secrets unto His servants, the prophets.") Exercise a particle of faith in the words I have spoken here. Pray and ask Heavenly Father if these things are true. This is the gospel of Jesus Christ, the one and only! He has revealed it unto His church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, a religion to rejoice in. I promise that the Holy Ghost will tell you the truthfulness of this message. But, you must listen, "he that hath ears to hear, let him hear." (Matthew 11:15) The Savior knows, and has said, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and the follow me." (John 10:27) We need His voice because we can't decide truth for Heavenly Father. We don't determine who is right and who is wrong. Only Heavenly Father determines such things for us. And He has said, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts higher than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9) Well, we all can be part of Christ's sheep. And if we truly listen we will hear Christ Himself tell us that these things are true. But we must listen! It only begins here. When we being to know these things for ourselves, that these things are true, we will begin to see the blessings that flow into our lives. Among many of them will be an increase of happiness, that will only continue to increase as we progress in the gospel of Jesus Christ. For truly, this is a religion to rejoice in!

Dude, right on!!! I really enjoyed everything you just wrote. You took what I was saying in my initial response to your post and completely expounded upon it 10-fold with accuracy and authority. Especially with where this thread has been going, these two posts by you are exactly what the doctor ordered. Thank you for taking the time to type all that out. You rock!!

Yeah, we got 3 Heavens dude, don't worry about it. You're totally covered!

You know, this is a fine line in my life. I prefer not to voice my entire opinion on the matter in a place on the internet for the whole world to see. So just let me say this: Always be pleased with your efforts to chose what is right and follow the Prophet. However, on issues like cussing, don't be afraid to research the issue yourself and draw your own conclusions. If you are not comfortable with that, or don't like the conclusion you come up with, then you are always safe sticking with the guiding standards of the General Authorities. This is what they're here for.

I really like this post, Bert. Anthony has a good point when he describes how Heavenly Father communicates to His children. However, he negates his own point when he says that everyone receives their own private direction. While that point is very much true, it also demonstrates the necessity for prophets and apostles to receive general direction, through inspired revelation, for the Church as a whole. If everyone is getting their own direction, it opens up the possibility for there to be confusion and uncertainty as to the way by which man must enter into Heaven. Anthony himself agrees with that when he admits that he admires the universality of our church. Prophets and Apostles receive revelation for the doctrines and ordinances which are standard and essential for all to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. People receive private revelation that is tailored to the individual based on their private, and respective relationship with Heavenly Father.