WillowTheWhisp

He was born a Jew and converted to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which he sees as fulfilment of Judaic prophecy.

You could end up married to yourself if your not careful! It sounds like that old song "I'm My Own Grandpa"

My son-in-law has a t-shirt which says "dolphins are gay sharks"

I know someone who is Jewish and Mormon. He is Jewish just as I am English.

So what about the disciples? They were born Jews.

How could Christ be a Christian? A Christian is a follower of Christ. He couldn't be a follower of himself. He did say that he came to fulfil the law. He was of the lineage of David. He went to the temple in Jerusalem. He preached in the synagogue. He was called Rabbi. The first Christians were Jews.

There is no shortage of people who wish to serve God - in an advisory capacity.

I can see it.

I'm not sure that I understand it in view of the discussions in the thread. I originally took it to mean what it seems to mean at face value when people refer to lusts of the flesh - greed, promiscuity, self indulgence that kind of thing.

If two people expect to see eye to eye they need to use their ears.

As far as I am aware there is no accepted evidence of a missing link - there are things which have been disproven, such as Piltdown Man. I also recall watching something on TV which explained that we have not evolved from Neanderthal Man but that Homo Sapiens and Neanderthal coexisted and the latter died out.

Jesus was a Jew. We believe the Old Testament to be the word of God and that is as important to us as the New Testament.

Yes I would concur that in the pre-existence there would have been no doubt as to the gender of each of us. The problems arise in the physical world. When a choice is made in confusing cases it can sometimes be the wrong choice as illustrated by ztodd.

Seen outside a local church: CH.....CH - What's missing? UR.

I saw a newsagent in a shop in town wearing a T-shirt with that logo one day last week.

There's only one problem with that and it is that not everyone is born either male or female. Some are born with the distinctive sexual characteristics of both. I have no idea how this happens or why it happens but it is a documented fact that it does happen. They are often assigned a gender at birth. Hopefully they are assigned the correct one but it could be perfectly possible that a mistake is made. I do know this doesn't account for every transsexual and I have no idea why anyone who is born as a woman would want to be a man and vice versa. I have seen some women who used to be men and still look like men. I have seen others who look like women and you'd never guess they used to be men. It's far too complicated an issue. As a slight tangent I do believe people who have vanity surgery are wasting their time because they are just going to end up with the same eyes, nose, chin when they are resurrected. Reconstructive surgery is a different issue altogether for such things like cleft palate or for injuries.

I believe that there is evolution within a species but that each species remains separate. Like when a horse and a donkey mate the offspring is sterile. We do not see evidence of things evolving from one species to another. When God created all creatures they were commanded to multiply after their own kind, each after its own kind.

I have seen an investigation about that - a suggestion that the area was once prone to heavier rainfall than now. A couple of years ago we were up in the Atlas mountains and found fossils of sea creatures. Just to add an extra bit of spice to the discussion.

Yes, I think we'd already all agreed on that. What does surprise me is that for hundreds of years it was believed there were only nails in the palms of his hands yet Joseph Smith had been told about the nails in the wrists long before scientists proved that it had to have been so or the nails in his palms would have just torn through. I have a follow up comment I want to make on this but I'm waiting until I can find the book with it in.

I think we've wandered into something now where I'm way out of my depth. I'll leave you to it.

If the land was first discovered by Egyptus when it was under water how could she have seen the Sphynx sticking up out of the water? The Sphynx was made by men and made when the land had been lived in by people, long after it was first discovered. The Nile floods naturally each year and leaves very fertile sediment behind which makes the area along the banks incredibly fertile. So she discovered it during the flood season and they settled there and cultivated the fertile land. That's how it has always seemed to me.

Is this another forum that I'm unaware of?

It's daft really isn't it to think that one paragraph in a newspaper could apply to a twelfth of the population.

How would you compare that to someone who doesn't feel welcome at church but doesn't reject the Gospel and continues to live the LDS lifestyle, read the Book of Mormon and Bible and pray, ask a blessing on their food etc? Are they not doing what Alma said and worshipping in places other than the synagogue? I really do feel that the onus is on us as long established members not to let any new converts drift off because they feel this way.

I hope I can explain myself properly here and not be misunderstood. It's a complex question. I'll try to make a few brief statements without getting tangled up. Homosexual union is not approved of by Heavenly Father. Man does not belong with man nor woman with woman. Heavenly Father's plan includes man and woman and family. Homosexual people are drawn to those of their own gender. They are often repulsed by the thought of a relationship with someone of the opposite sex just as much as heterosexual people are repulsed by the thought of a relationship with someone of the same sex. Why should this be? We do not know. We do not know why some people are given this extremely difficult challenge. Some try to overcome it by living a celibate lifestyle, but the church teaches that only by being married and sealed and living as an eternal couple can we gain exaltation. So some try to live a life which is abhorrent to them and some fail to do so and people are hurt. (wives, husbands, children). Some do not care because they either believe we have misunderstood God and call us non-Christian for not accepting them as God made them (ie gay Christians) or do not care because they do not even believe there is a God. When it comes to permitting and allowing then I am reminded that we are all given free will and agency to choose for ourselves, right back to Adam. Heavenly Father forces no-one. So, therefore I believe that it is not my place to say this must not be made legal (or in the case of the UK where it is already legal, that it must be made illegal) That would be me forcing my will (or even Heavenly Father's will) upon another human being and this is something that even He will not do. I don't believe I have the right to do that. However, as a Church we do have standards to abide by and the gay person can make a choice to accept our standards and live by them and thus be a welcome and active member of the church - or choose to go against those standards and to live a lifestyle contrary to that taught by the church and thus cut themselves off from the blessings. Whatever their choice, it should be theirs and as skalenfehl said earlier even if we do not approve of the choice it does not mean that we should not still love them. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.