Ray

I just read what our Bible Dictionary has to say about Baal and Babylon. Has everyone else read that? Thanks for the thoughts, Traveler. You’re very well informed. :) Starsky, Great thoughts from you too. Thanks. :) Jenda, I don’t think you’re entirely wrong. It’s just that the Catholic church isn’t the only Great and Abominable organization on Earth. Take a look at what happens when you substitute “world” for “church”, in your own words: In my mind it is clear that Satan is the founder of the Great and Abominable Church, and he reigns over a whole lot more than the Catholic Church. Keep in mind that everything of this world will end when Jesus returns to reign personally upon the Earth. Everything but the kingdom of God which is already here, that is, because the kingdom of God is not of this world.

Heh, there are about 12 million people on this Earth right now who are members of the Church, and you can be assured that most of them want to be.And one more thing, when Jesus said that nobody can come to the Father but through Him, He meant that nobody can come to the Father other than through Him, or unless it is through Him. But our Lord doesn’t do everything Himself, alone. Our Lord appoints people to work for Him, and when those people whom He has chosen act under His authority and direction, their actions are regarded as if they were done by our Lord Himself. Thus, if Joseph Smith was a prophet of our Lord, acting under the authority and direction of our Lord, (and I state that He was), then refusing to accept Joseph Smith is the same as refusing to accept one of our Lord’s authorized representatives, which is the same as refusing to accept the authority and direction of Jesus Christ Himself. Btw, nobody should assume they have our Lord’s authority to act in His name, just as nobody should assume that they’ll be admitted into heaven. P.s. By the time I finished writing this I saw that Setheus had already made many of the same points, and you seemed to understand, Shanstress, but hopefully I have added at least a thought or two that you find worthy of consideration.

A prospective LDS should be able to testify that Jesus Christ ordained Joseph Smith to establish the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints upon the face of this Earth. That Jesus sent certain people to Joseph Smith (namely Moses, Elijah, Elias, John the Baptist, Peter, James, and John), to enable Joseph Smith to establish the church of Jesus Christ upon this Earth with the keys of the kingdom that Jesus wanted him to have. That Jesus sent Moroni to instruct Joseph Smith and help him find the plates and other things that Moroni had buried in the Earth. That Joseph Smith was able to translate those plates by the gifts and power of God into modern English, revealing to us what we now know as the Book of Mormon. That Jesus continued to help Joseph Smith establish the church of Christ upon the Earth by continuing to give him inspiration and revelation, many of which we now know as the Doctrine & Covenants. If a prospective LDS can’t agree with what I just said about Joseph Smith, then why would they even want to join this church? Because of the social connections? Heh, sorry, but this church is not a social club. It’s a kingdom, or government, or organization, guided by certain revelations and laws from Jesus Christ. These laws come with penalties, and a person cannot join this church unless they covenant, or promise, to accept and obey these laws. If a person breaks them, or refuses to accept them, then that person is held totally accountable. After all, it was their choice to accept them or refuse them in the first place. Btw, being able to accept Joseph Smith as a prophet of God is more than merely an intellectual agreement. How do you imagine you would you feel once you got to “heaven” and found Joseph Smith there? One more point. The reason any person [alive on this Earth today] needs to accept Joseph Smith as a prophet of God to get into the celestial kingdom is because a person can only enter the celestial kingdom after receiving certain required ordinances, which can only be received in the temple, which requires a temple recommend, which requires the acceptance of certain revelations and laws from Jesus Christ. Thus, a person needs more than merely to be a member of any ole’ Bible believing church.

If I may interject for a moment…1) Relax…you don’t need to have the universe all figured out by the time you’re 20. 2) Step back and judge yourself as you imagine God would judge you right now. Too many people take themselves way too seriously, instead of seeing themselves as little children before God. (I mean no disrespect toward little children whatsoever) 3) Trust only God to guide you, gleaning what you can from others without taking them too seriously. When someone claims to be highly informed on a subject, or to have received revelation from God, trust in God to guide you and verify whether or not that someone speaks the truth. Lots of people spread false information because they are simply misinformed, with no malicious intent at all. In response to your point 2) above, I wish to help you understand that prophets are not infallible. Prophets are people too, just like you and me, only acting as prophets when they receive testimony from God and then testify that what they have received has come from God. Prophecy can only come through revelation from God, because nobody can know of things they cannot see unless God helps that person know it. For instance, you weren’t around when the Book of Mormon was written, so there is no way that you can honestly testify to anything about the Book of Mormon, based only upon what you can see or have seen for yourself. The best you can hope to receive is a testimony from somebody who knows the truth about the Book of Mormon, but who are you going to listen to? Joseph Smith is no longer around, so you can’t ask him. And even if you could, how would you know whether or not he was telling you the truth? The same goes for all the witnesses who testify in support of the Book of Mormon. Should you trust what they say to be true? And suppose you discovered that some of the witnesses in support of the Book of Mormon were infallible people? Would that negate their testimony? Some people will even tell you that the Book of Mormon is NOT true, but how do they claim to know that? Even if they claim that God told them that, does that make it true? What if some other people claimed that God told them it was true? How would you know who to trust? For the record, I testify that I know that the Book of Mormon is true, and that I know this because God has assured me that it is true. But don’t believe me just because I’m telling you this. I recommend you to God, the only witness you SHOULD trust to be impartial, because He is a God of truth. You really don’t know me, so you really shouldn’t trust what I say simply because I said it.

Yes, it helped a lot. Thank you. And I think you may want to reconsider whether or not Jesus was Buddha, if you define Buddha as: I believe that Jesus is such a being, and that it is only through Him that we can attain our ultimate potential. And why do we need Jesus, you may ask? Because Jesus is the Christ, the only one who has redeemed us from our “fallen condition”, or who can redeem us if we will accept what He has done for us. This “fallen condition” was or is the condition of living our lives without God to help us become the persons we could become with His counsel and guidance in our lives. We got into this “fallen condition” when Adam and Eve went against the counsel and guidance of God in the garden of Eden, and as they had been warned, their disobedience would result and did result in certain consequences. God couldn’t just forgive them for disobeying His counsel and guidance unless He provided a means whereby they could be forgiven, otherwise there would have been no justice and God would have been a liar for having said that there would be certain consequences to their actions. But there were certain consequences to their actions, and there was a means provided whereby Adam and Eve and all of their children could be forgiven, and that means was and is through the Atonement of Christ. Anyway, just a short explanation for why we need Christ, for those who don’t know. Lots of people seem to overlook the idea that we can’t forgive ourselves for the mistakes we have made, or the guilt we feel for having made those mistakes. And nobody else can cleanse us from the guilt we feel from the mistakes we have made either. Nobody but Christ, that is. All we need to receive that forgiveness is Faith in Christ and Repentance for the mistakes we have made that we no longer desire to make again. Faith in Christ, or the assurance and confirmation of truth that there must be a Christ, and that Jesus is that Christ, is the key to understanding everything. Once you know that you know that any other religion that fails to acknowledge the need for a Christ, or who that Christ is, has failed to consider something. And btw, if Jesus was Buddha, He still is, because He still lives as the same person that He has always been. I’m not saying that Jesus is the same person as Siddhartha Gautama. I’m saying that if a person is a Buddha, they are Buddha, even though one person may not be the same person that some people refer to as the Buddha, or simply Buddha. Get it? It’s just like saying that if a person is a Daddy, they are Daddy, even though one person may not be the same person that some people refer to as the Daddy, or simply Daddy.

Exactly the point, or one of the points, I was trying to make. If they can’t all be true, how would you go about finding out which one is? And then, once you had found out which one is true, wouldn’t you want to share your reasons for believing that your religion is the one that is true? And then, once someone said something against your religion, and you saw that their opinion was based on a misunderstanding about something within your religion, wouldn’t you want to explain what you see to be their error or misunderstanding?The point I was trying to make before is that we should look to God and rely upon Him to help us find the truth. Will you agree with that, or will you say that we should only rely upon what makes sense to us, based on our understanding of how things are. It is possible that the person who feels strongly against a particular religion might have those anti- feelings because they don’t properly understand the religion, isn’t it? Don’t you think that is possible? And I am saying that as long as we rely upon God to teach us the truth, we can learn it. He knows the truth, and we can learn from Him. We don’t have to go through the rest of our lives here on this Earth not really knowing if what we believe is the truth.

Have you ever heard a Buddhist testify that their knowledge and understanding of things has come from God, as personal revelation, with God speaking or communicating directly with them? If they have, then that knowledge and understanding is perfectly compatible with the knowledge and understanding that I have, and it just may be that I might not see how to find that harmony. So you’re saying that all of those people have the same kind of testimony that I have? That they will all testify that God has personally enlightened them and given them His assurance that their organization and what they believe is true? Jason, is this true? As a Catholic, will you say that your knowledge and understanding has been personally influenced by God through personal revelation? If this is true, then why are all of these different organizations and beliefs seemingly at odds with each other? Or are they? Maybe we’re all in agreement and we just don’t realize that right now. Maybe there is a little misunderstanding here and another misunderstanding there preventing us from seeing that we’re all in agreement? For instance, Jesus is Allah, Jehovah, Buddah, Christ, God, Lord, and King of kings. We just have to figure out how, right? Is that what you’re saying? Would it make you happier if I said I was sure? I say that I know my core beliefs are true because I have an assurance from God, and since I know that God will not lie to me, I know that whatever He assures me of is the truth. I am sure of that.I am also sure that one thing cannot agree with another thing if those two things disagree with each other, but maybe it’s only that those things appear to disagree with each other? That could be true, couldn’t it? I don’t know much about Allah and Buddah, but I do know that Jesus is Christ, and He is God, and He is Lord, and He is King of kings. Maybe somehow He is Allah and Buddah too? Because God has assured me that these things are true. This knowledge, or assurance, is just as real to me as is my knowledge that I am alive, and that this world exists, and that my wife and mother truly love me. I’m not so sure about my Dad, though. Do you really care so much about what other people think? I’d really like to hear your testimony, from your heart. You can tell me what you know, and what you don’t know. I won’t think anything bad about you. I hope you won’t think anything bad about me either, but if you do, I really don’t care. I’m just sharing my beliefs with you people. I’m not trying to become the most popular or respected person on this board. Could you really? Oh well, I believe differently, and I believe I got my knowledge and understanding from God. How could we both be right, I wonder?

Heh, why don’t you just try to enlighten me about how you come to learn that things are true, things that you can’t see, in particular? Hmmm? How do you know that God lives? How do you know that Jesus is the Christ? From what you have said before, you don’t know, do you. If you had ever received a testimony from God, through the power of the Holy Ghost, you would know and you would know that your knowledge came from God. But as it is, your testimony is built only upon what makes sense to you, from the best books you can understand, operating under the “assumption” that the books you understand and agree with “must be” true. Why do you believe anything written in the Bible? Because lots of other people do? Because that book has been around a long, long time? Are your beliefs based on nothing more than hearsay and popular opinion? What you’re asking about now, the thing that will convince you of the truth, is the very first thing you should have learned about in the Church, and it’s the most important thing you’ll ever need to know about if you ever really want to have a relationship with God. The thing I’m talking about is called Faith. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen… that are true. This substance, or evidence, or what I prefer to call “assurance”, is a confirmation of truth… about God, about God’s will, and about anything else that is true. It’s not self-confidence, or a matter of convincing yourself that you know something is true. The truth is self-evident, and by Faith you will know it. To acquire Faith that God lives, you must have at least the hope to believe that God lives and will reward those who diligently seek Him… with a confirmation of that truth. Abraham had Faith to assure him that it was God who told him to offer up his son Isaac on the altar, and He also had Faith to assure him that God was righteous and had a righteous purpose for telling him to do that. Noah had Faith to assure him it was God who told him to build that boat, before he ever saw any rain to convince him he would need one to escape that flood, which he was also assured was coming. Heh, read Hebrews chapter 11. The Bible alone mentions lots of people who did what they did by Faith, and it wasn’t that they had only convinced themselves that they knew the truth. This truth is also self-evident: to know God’s will you need to know God. God doesn’t expect you to believe what other people say about God, or to believe that God’s will is whatever other people say is God’s will. Those people might be telling the truth, but you can’t know that unless you know God. And to know God you need to have a relationship with God. And to have a relationship with God you need to have Faith that God lives, and then diligently seek to know Him. Alma chapter 32 gives some others principles about into how to go about acquiring Faith, or a confirmation of the truth… about God, God’s will, and everything else. But don’t believe what Alma said just because Alma said it, and don’t believe what the apostle Paul or Abraham or Noah or me or anybody else says just because we said it. If you really want to know the truth, or God, or God’s will, ask God to help you find it. Once He does you will be sure, or have an assurance that He did.

Exactly how open would you like me to be? Open enough to accept what you tell me is true, or open enough to accept what God tells me is true? I am open enough to try to listen to what you tell me, and I am also open enough to try to listen to what God tells me, but I will only accept what you tell me is true when and if God assures me that what you tell me is the truth.Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths. – Proverbs 3:5-6 I testify that the above scripture is true because I know that God is directing my path. You may say He’s not, but I say that He is, and I am prepared to stand before God and testify with this assurance. I am also prepared to stand before God and testify that I tried to tell you these things, and that if you didn’t accept what I told you it isn’t my fault. I can’t make you believe what I believe, I can only share my beliefs with you. Btw, have you ever noticed how few people there seem to be (aside from LDS) who will say that God has assured them that something is true. Most people I have talked to, who disagree with me, say that I don’t understand the scriptures correctly, but they hardly ever testify that their understanding has been influenced by God. They do say that their understanding is the understanding that makes the most sense to them, but the understanding of most people is what makes sense to them, don’t you think? To know the truth, we must rely upon the understanding of God, with the assurance that our understanding has been influenced by God.

Wow, not many people can say that. You must be really smart! I think there are more people who can honestly say that than you realize, and I also think that you and some other people are having trouble understanding what I meant. Let me try to clarify my message one more time. I’ve read and studied all of the scriptures often enough to thoroughly understand each and every word, even though I can’t quote chapter and verse. But that, alone, doesn’t really help a whole lot with my understanding of what the persons who wrote the scriptures meant, or the message or messages they were conveying as they wrote those scriptures. When you read a book, or hear a message, your interpretation of that message is limited to your understanding of the person who gave that message and what they meant. People don’t always use the same words that you might use, you know, and your understanding can also be thrown off by an inflection in their speech, or a perceived lack thereof. Any personal bias against that person, possibly from what other people think about that person or your own misunderstanding of them, can also affect your understanding of them and what they are sharing with you. Thus, as you are reading what I am writing now, you may still not understand what I am saying to you unless you can connect with me and feel the power of my words. Not that my words are necessarily more powerful than anyone else’s words, but as words convey power, or the ability to get something done, as in my ability to share my understanding with you. The scriptures are limited to the same principles. The people who wrote those scriptures were inspired by God, so that they could understand the things of God, and you (we) can only understand the scriptures if we can connect with God and feel the power of His words as our minds become enlightened by God. Otherwise we are also susceptible to misunderstanding what the scriptures are actually saying, or in other words, the thoughts of the person who wrote those scriptures and what they meant. That’s what the apostle Paul meant when he said “the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned” – 1 Corinthians 2:14 Unless we receive the Spirit, or the power of the Holy Ghost, helping us to understand what the scriptures are saying, we’ll be able to come up with all kinds of possible interpretations for what the scriptures are saying. Just look at all the churches in this world and see how many different interpretations exist regarding what they consider to be scripture and what they think those scriptures are saying. So how are you to know which church to join, or what to understand and regard as scripture? That’s essentially a question that was asked by a boy named Joseph Smith, Jr. You know that story, don’t you? But how are you to know if he was telling you the truth? In the same way that he did. God may not make a personal appearance to you, but He will still answer you in such a way that you will still know that God has answered you, and you will know that it is God that has answered you by receiving a testimony through the power of the Holy Ghost.

And some think you a self-absorbed pompously conceited dolt. How stupid are they??!! Who are you talking about? Who is “they”? I don’t believe that anybody here is stupid, and I hope that nobody would make that judgment against me when they really don’t know me. Btw, is your opinion of someone determined by the opinions of other people, or do you make up your own mind for yourself? Is that what you think about me? What makes you think I’m self-absorbed, if you do? What makes you think I’m pompous, if you do? What makes you think I’m conceited, if you do? What makes you think I’m a dolt, if you do? Btw, what is a dolt? I’ve never heard that word before and it’s not in my Word thesaurus. Do you doubt that I have a thorough understanding of the scriptures? What do you think I mean by that? Did you read the rest of my post to find out? Are you sure you didn’t make any false conclusions or assumptions? I’ll clarify what I mean by that, if you’re interested. Btw, we can still see through you. And what I said before appears to be true…fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering…including trying to make other people suffer. I sense much fear in you. From Merriam-Websters on-line: DOLT Pronunciation: 'dOlt Function: noun Etymology: probably akin to Old English dol foolish : a stupid person - dolt·ish /'dOl-tish/ adjective - dolt·ish·ly adverb - dolt·ish·ness noun Thank you for the clarification, bizabra. So what makes anyone think I’m a dolt, or a stupid person, if you do?

I think we do, although we may not use the words Doctrine & Dogma to officially categorize teachings within the Church. The Word of Wisdom can now be considered to be Dogma, because it was adopted into the canon by the prophets and apostles of the Church, and abstinence from Coca-Cola and similar beverages can be considered to be Doctrine, using Dogma & Doctrine as Jason defined them.

But the sad truth is that everybody won’t remember that, and even if they did, everybody wouldn’t agree on how to watch or use their tongue. Satan and his disciples aren’t going to say anything nice about anybody they don’t like, and they don’t like many people. And the trick is not to get everybody else to watch or use their tongue righteously anyway, but to live in such a way that no matter what anyone else says to you or about you, you will stand justified before God. God and His people will defeat Satan and his people, and our goal should be to be on the team that wins. And you know what else. Satan and his disciples desire to tear every righteous person down by the things that they say, but the disciples of Jesus will use those words to make any adjustments to their behavior that may be necessary. Thus Satan and his disciples who use the tongue as a weapon will never defeat the disciples of Jesus because they (we) will use those sticks and stones for something righteous.

And some think you a self-absorbed pompously conceited dolt. How stupid are they??!! Who are you talking about? Who is “they”? I don’t believe that anybody here is stupid, and I hope that nobody would make that judgment against me when they really don’t know me. Btw, is your opinion of someone determined by the opinions of other people, or do you make up your own mind for yourself? Is that what you think about me? What makes you think I’m self-absorbed, if you do? What makes you think I’m pompous, if you do? What makes you think I’m conceited, if you do? What makes you think I’m a dolt, if you do? Btw, what is a dolt? I’ve never heard that word before and it’s not in my Word thesaurus. Do you doubt that I have a thorough understanding of the scriptures? What do you think I mean by that? Did you read the rest of my post to find out? Are you sure you didn’t make any false conclusions or assumptions? I’ll clarify what I mean by that, if you’re interested. Btw, we can still see through you. And what I said before appears to be true…fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering…including trying to make other people suffer. I sense much fear in you.

I believe I have a thorough understanding of the scriptures right now, but it will take the rest of my life to absorb all to be gained from inspiration while studying the scriptures. I think we should study the scriptures while seeking inspiration or personal revelation to help us understand the mind and will of God. Most often we will receive insights that the scriptures alone don’t provide, and that inspiration can then become what should be considered additional scripture, as people are prompted to write the things they feel that God has made clear to them. To be considered canon, though, a group of people must agree that what is written has actually been inspired by God.Anyway, what I wanted to say is that the key to understanding the mind and will of God is not a thorough understanding of the scriptures. I think the scriptures are the key to inspiration, and it is inspiration that must be received before we can properly understand the mind and will of God. To anyone who doesn’t receive that inspiration, the scriptures are merely the writings of some men who believed or claimed that what they said was inspired by God.

“You can’t HANDLE the truth!” Sorry, but I now see you as Jack Nicholson . (He's a cool guy though!) I respect that you think you know the truth, Ray. But I think Joseph Smith’s vision, BoM, temple ceremonies, etc. are all fantasy. That’s the beauty of this wonderful country. We are all free to have our own beliefs. I think the most important thing any of us can do for our salvation is to follow the golden rule. If more people would do that (including myself), the country AND WORLD would be a much better place. Even IF you are right and I’m wrong (which is indeed possible), I think God would be much more concerned with whether we followed the golden rule to the best of our ability EVEN MORE SO than if we believed JS was a prophet, and spent time doing temple ordinances. I intend to work on that for myself. Heh, the way he said that is what I usually think about when I say that too, but I don’t mean any unrighteousness by it. It’s just an obvious fact that some people cannot handle the truth. … to borrow from another of Jack’s line in that movie … I would rather you just say Thank you. Thank you for expressing your beliefs. Thank you for trying to help me understand things as you understand things. And thank you for upholding the same beliefs that I uphold, even though you uphold some other beliefs that I do not uphold because I do not see things your way. And to that I would say Thank you, for realizing that every witness has rights. Here, here. [applause] If all people felt free to express and discuss their beliefs, without fear from or toward anybody else for expressing and discussing their beliefs, the world would be a much better place. People should of course always be punished for their crimes, but a person should not receive any harm or harassment from anyone else simply for sharing their beliefs. Now let’s go to the next level, shall we? To make that much better world a perfect world, everyone who expresses and discusses their beliefs should be driven only by the desire to learn and share the truth. A belief doesn’t do any good if it’s not true, does it? And then we should all ask, who knows the truth, and do our beliefs conform to those who know it? A person must first know the truth before they can share it, right? Should a person suppose that since they don’t know the truth, that nobody does? Somebody knows it, right? And if somebody knows it, and more people learn it, wouldn’t more people come to know the truth? I think so, and we would then have a world full of people who express and discuss their beliefs, with some people knowing the truth with some other people who don’t, while everyone is driven by the desire to know the truth, with nobody having any fear for doing so. Btw, perfect love eliminates all fear. I think so too, but then again, that’s just another one of my beliefs. I’m happy to see that we agree on that, though. :)

I think some people just can't handle the truth and would rather just believe that God will "work it all out". It is my belief and my testimony that He already has, and He has revealed how it will all work out. Now people just need to accept what He has revealed and deal with it.

The language appears to be that of Joseph Smith, I think, but the heart of the message comes from Christ.

Shanstress, If you’re still around, I’d really appreciate an explanation for how you can be so certain that your child is going to heaven. And while you’re at it, what do you mean by “heaven”? Is your child still living on this Earth? If not, did they accept the gospel before he/she died? If so, how can you be so certain that they will always remain true to the gospel? Has he/she bore his/her testimony to you in such a way that convinces you that he/she knows that the gospel is true and there is no doubt that he/she will ever change his/her mind about it? Didn’t you say that you were once a member of the Church, but that you no longer are? Do you believe your child is more convinced of the truth of the gospel than you are?

You must do what you feel is right, of course.

No thanks. Life is scary enough already. See through you, we can. Fear is the path to the dark side... fear leads to anger... anger leads to hate… hate leads to suffering. A [saint] must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. I sense much fear in you.

Yes, to me, “Hell” is to be in one place knowing that I could have been in a better place if I had only done better with my life. I do kinda wish I had obtained a better education when I was younger, so that I could have obtained an even better job than I have now, but in the eternal scheme of things, the “job” I have while on this Earth doesn’t really make a whole lot of difference. Seeing my other brothers and sisters go on to continue in family units forever when I cannot, however, would be hell. And that would all be because I would not repent. I think this is how the scriptures refer to Hell, too. A place of burning, which represents the guilt and remorse you have that can never be forgiven because you knew you were doing something that you shouldn’t have been doing and you kept doing it anyway. I believe the only way to escape Hell is to repent, so that we can have a clean conscience, knowing that we are doing everything we can to do what we know our Lord expects from us. We still make mistakes, of course, but those should be limited to actions that occur by accident, in the spur of the moment kind of thing, instead of anything that we deliberately do of our own free will. If you’re limiting the idea of Hell to Outer Darkness, I think you should understand that the only people that will ever go “there” are people who know the difference between good and evil, choose to do evil despite the consequences, not even trying to repent, and actually come out in open rebellion against the plan of our heavenly Father and everything associated with righteousness, including the gospel. They are they that seek to do their own will, and not the will of God, with a full and complete knowledge of what the will of God is.

I would like that very much. I might have chosen a better way to phrase those things, but I agree with what I see as the heart of the message. I’ve noticed that some people don’t like the fact that we’re trying to fight for the basic freedoms of other people, but as a child of God and an American, I believe we have the responsibility to help other people obtain those basic freedoms as much as we can. As we say in the pledge of allegiance: one nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all.

Heh, sorry, I guess I was looking beyond the mark. Children are accountable for their own sins, and not the sins of their parents. Parents, however, can sometimes be responsible for the sins of the children, and that’s what I have been talking about. If a child dies before the “years of accountability”, they are without sin because the Lord will not hold them responsible for their actions. This is generally believed to be because children under 8 years old are not capable of knowing the difference between good and evil, even though they usually do know that they are going against the will of their parents. After 8 years of age, children are treated like all the rest of us, and are accountable for their actions. If you do something evil knowing it is evil, you will suffer the consequences. For one thing, you will become a “bad” person instead of a “good” person, as all of your actions have an effect on the type of person you become. If you don’t know about the gospel, being evil may not mean a whole lot to you, but your conscience will bother you for at least for a little while and you would have no reason to suppose that your actions would be forgiven by God. If you don’t even know about God, or a life after this one, that may not mean much to you either, but those things will matter once you find out that there is a God and a life after this one. You’ll find out about those things after you die, if not sooner. Anyway, sorry, getting carried away again. As a former member of the Church, you probably understand enough about the gospel to know what I was just talking about, but the simple answer to your question is not a Yes or No. My question to you is, “what would keep a child who had never heard about the gospel from his/her parents from ending up as someone who would end up in hell?” Children develop and learn most of the things that determine the type of person they become from their parents, at least during those years they are growing up with them. They can still develop into people who are totally opposite from their parents, if they are somehow prompted, but the influence of parents upon their children makes a lot of difference in how those children see the world. Can a child accept the gospel even though a parent does not? Of course, but again, consider how much more difficult it would be for that child to break away from the traditions and teachings of their parents.

FYI, a mother cannot “take” the children away from their father and have them sealed to someone else. A mother does not perform the sealing ordinance, someone with that authority in the Church does, and you can expect at least as much justice from someone with that much authority in the Church as you would from someone with that kind of authority in civil government. The rights of the father would first be considered, and in most situations his consent would be required. At the very least, there would first have to be a divorce between the father and mother and a sealing between the mother and her new spouse, because a wife and husband must first be sealed before they can have any children sealed to them.