Do murderers have a chance for redemption in the spirit world?

[MormonGirl02]

Hi everyone. Do murderers get a chance to repent of their sins and go to one of the heavenly kingdoms when in the Spirit World or are they automatically condemned to Outer Darkness? Also, what if the murderer repents during this life?

[Dr T]

I believe that once saved, Jesus covers all sin. He covers ALL past and future sins of a true believer. Hebrews 9:27: And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

[WANDERER]

From what I understand there is a belief that repentance in this life with due penalty is required?

[Dr T]

Please explain what you mean by "due penalty" Wanderer. If you mean coverage, Jesus' life, death and resurrection paid the cost of all sins.

[WANDERER]

I believe that The Death Penalty thread looks at differing beliefs on this.

[Dr T]

I haven't read that thread.

[tubaloth]

Do murderers get a chance to repent of their sins and go to one of the heavenly kingdoms when in the Spirit World or are they automatically condemned to Outer Darkness?

First, your question doesn’t make complete sense. Mostly “go to one of the heavenly kingdoms when in the Spirit World” you don’t go to one of this kingdoms while you are IN the spirit world, but more AFTER the spirit world.

Lets break it down.

Do murderers get a chance to repent of their sins

Yes they do get the chance to repent, but the requirement to repent of murder is pretty big.

or are they automatically condemned to Outer Darkness

Part of the repentance process is going to Outer Darkness. Outer Darkness or ‘Hell’ as it is used in Section 76, is for those that 1. Don’t repent, or 2. Have to suffer themselves.

I didn’t see anything specific about Murders (which I’m pretty sure is there) but to even make it to the telestial kingdom (the lowest) they go through outer darkness to suffer, and then come forth in the telestial. The only ones that STAY in outer darkness are sons of Perdition.

But even with all of that we would have to compare the TYPE of murder it was. (and are we talking and LDS faithful member, or somebody that didn't know the gospel) I’m guessing some would even have a chance to go to the Terrestrial Kingdom.

But there is no way from my reading of the scriptures for a murder to make it to the celestial kingdom.

I believe that once saved, Jesus covers all sin. He covers ALL past and future sins of a true believer.

WOW! Jesus Covers Sins I haven’t even done! And even if I do really bad ones (like Murder) he covers those and I’m saved?

That isn’t the view of the LDS doctrine, but that’s nice that is how you view it.

[WANDERER]

Is spirit prison the equivalent of Outer Darkness...and this is where the righteous will minister?

[Vanhin]

Hi everyone. Do murderers get a chance to repent of their sins and go to one of the heavenly kingdoms when in the Spirit World or are they automatically condemned to Outer Darkness? Also, what if the murderer repents during this life?

It's never a bad idea to repent. The answer is yes, unless they are sons of perdition; and for them there will be no forgiveness (D&C 76 34-35). Sons of perdition receive no kingdom of glory.

The Anti-Nephi-Lehis from the Book of Mormon are examples of people who were murderers and repented.

10 And I also thank my God, yea, my great God, that he hath granted unto us that we might repent of these things, and also that he hath forgiven us of those our many sins and murders which we have committed, and taken away the guilt from our hearts, through the merits of his Son.

11 And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain—

12 Now, my best beloved brethren, since God hath taken away our stains, and our swords have become bright, then let us stain our swords no more with the blood of our brethren. (Alma 24:10-12)

Also, I might add, that there is no forgiveness without repentance. Access to the Atonement for the forgiveness of our sins is conditioned upon our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and in his Atonement, our repentance, and our obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gosepl of Jesus Christ. The atonement does not save us in our sins, but from our sins:

And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins. (Alma 11:37)

I hope that helps.

Sincerely,

Vanhin

[skalenfehl]

Everyone will receive redemption--redemption from the Fall of Adam, meaning the resurrection. Whatever kingdom we obtain through our obedience to the laws of those kingdoms and glories (Celestial, Terrestrial, Telestial), our fallen state will be redeemed meaning that through Christ's resurrection we will all be resurrected never again to taste of mortal death.

That said, there are three kingdoms of glory and based on the laws of those kingdoms, people will inherit their reward according their obedience to those laws and also their repentance in this life and their reward in Paradise or penance in Hell/Spirit Prison before the final resurrection unto judgment. D&C 76 has some good information.

From lds.org:

There are three kingdoms of glory: the celestial kingdom, the terrestrial kingdom, and the telestial kingdom. The glory we inherit will depend on the depth of our conversion, expressed by our obedience to the Lord's commandments. It will depend on the manner in which we have "received the testimony of Jesus" (D&C 76:51; see also D&C 76:74, 79, 101).

Celestial Kingdom

The celestial kingdom is the highest of the three kingdoms of glory. Those in this kingdom will dwell forever in the presence of God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. This should be your goal: to inherit celestial glory and to help others receive that great blessing as well. Such a goal is not achieved in one attempt; it is the result of a lifetime of righteousness and constancy of purpose.

The celestial kingdom is the place prepared for those who have "received the testimony of Jesus" and been "made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood" (D&C 76:51, 69). To inherit this gift, we must receive the ordinances of salvation, keep the commandments, and repent of our sins. For a detailed explanation of those who will inherit celestial glory, see Doctrine and Covenants 76:50–70; 76:92–96.

In January 1836 the Prophet Joseph Smith received a revelation that expanded his understanding of the requirements to inherit celestial glory. The heavens were opened to him, and he saw the celestial kingdom. He marveled when he saw his older brother Alvin there, even though Alvin had died before receiving the ordinance of baptism. (See D&C 137:1–6.) Then the voice of the Lord came to the Prophet Joseph:

"All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; "Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom;

"For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts" (D&C 137:7–9).

Commenting on this revelation, the Prophet Joseph said, "I also beheld that all children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven" (D&C 137:10).

From another revelation to the Prophet Joseph, we learn that there are three degrees within the celestial kingdom. To be exalted in the highest degree and continue eternally in family relationships, we must enter into "the new and everlasting covenant of marriage" and be true to that covenant. In other words, temple marriage is a requirement for obtaining the highest degree of celestial glory. (See D&C 131:1–4.) All who are worthy to enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage will have that opportunity, whether in this life or the next.

Terrestrial Kingdom

Those who inherit terrestrial glory will "receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father. Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun" (D&C 76:77–78). Generally speaking, individuals in the terrestrial kingdom will be honorable people "who were blinded by the craftiness of men" (D&C 76:75). This group will include members of the Church who were "not valiant in the testimony of Jesus" (D&C 76:79). It will also include those who rejected the opportunity to receive the gospel in mortality but who later received it in the postmortal spirit world (see D&C 76:73–74). To learn more about those who will inherit terrestrial glory, see Doctrine and Covenants D&C 76:71–80, 91, 97.

Telestial Kingdom

Telestial glory will be reserved for individuals who "received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus" (D&C 76:82). These individuals will receive their glory after being redeemed from spirit prison, which is sometimes called hell (see D&C 76:84, D&C 76:106). A detailed explanation of those who will inherit telestial glory is found in Doctrine and Covenants 76:81–90, 98–106, 109–112.

Perdition

Some people will not be worthy to dwell in any kingdom of glory. They will be called "the sons of perdition" and will have to "abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory" (D&C 76:32; 88:24). This will be the state of "those who know [God's] power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy [God's] power" (D&C 76:31; see also D&C 76:30, 32–49).

Both Gene R. Cook and Bruce R. McConkie have said that murderers will inherit the Telestial kingdom. This will certainly happen after their time in Hell or Spirit Prison through the Millennium only to come forth in the "final resurrection" or the resurrection of the unjust to be judged and inherit the least of the kingdoms of glory--Telestial.

LDS.org - Ensign Article - I Have a Question

Further studying will tell you more about who resurrects in the "morning" of the first resurrection, the "afternoon" of the first resurrection and the final resurrection. Hope all this helps.

Edit: I should note that Redemption and Salvation are two distinct principles.

[WANDERER]

They had not been converted.Anti-Nephi-Lehis ? Did I read that right?

[Vanhin]

Judgement is left to God, and I am confident that even murderers who have fully repented have a chance to be exalted. The type of murderers that will not be exalted, are those who have received the new and everlasting covenant, and then murdered. They become sons of perdition.

The Anti-Nephi-Lehis buried their weapons of war into the ground because they did not want shed blood any more after repenting. They wanted to guard themselves from committing the unpardonable sin. The Lamanites, Amalekites, and Amulonites attacked them and started slaying them. The Book of Mormon records what happened:

Now when the people saw that they were coming against them they went out to meet them, and prostrated themselves before them to the earth, and began to call on the name of the Lord; and thus they were in this attitude when the Lamanites began to fall upon them, and began to slay them with the sword.

And thus without meeting any resistance, they did slay a thousand and five of them; and we know that they are blessed, for they have gone to dwell with their God. (Alma 24:21-22)

Regards,

Vanhin

[Vanhin]

They had not been converted.Anti-Nephi-Lehis ? Did I read that right?

Yes you read that right :). Click on this link and read the story. It's facinating.

Alma 24

Regards,

Vanhin

[WANDERER]

I did ; ) read that part.

So is spirit prison the same thing as outer darkness? I'm just thinking of the Saints going out there to talk to people and I find it hard to comprehend.

[skalenfehl]

Spirit Prison is the temporary Hell between our mortal life and the Resurrection. Outer darkness is Perdition, the final awful place outside any kingdom of glory where Satan, all his followers and the sons of Perdition will finally go.

Outer Darkness=No light=No glory=No kingdom

[Vanhin]

I did ; ) read that part.

So is spirit prison the same thing as outer darkness? I'm just thinking of the Saints going out there to talk to people and I find it hard to comprehend.

No, when we die, we go to a place called the spirit world until the resurrection. In the spirit world there are two divisions prison and paradise. Paradise is where the righteous await the resurrection; those who have received the gospel of Jesus Christ and remained true to their testimonies. Everyone else will be in prison. Even good people who have not yet received the gospel will be in prison. Spirit prison is sometimes called hell in the scriptures.

Christ organized a missionary effort to preach the gospel to the spirits in prison. Those who accept the gospel of Jesus Christ there will have their saving ordinances, like baptism, performed for them in our temples in mortality. They will then be in paradise as well. :)

When we are resurrected, we are brought before the judgement bar of Christ where we are all judged based on our obedience to God’s commands, including our acceptance of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Everyone will then inherit a kingdom of glory except the sons of perdition, they will be cast into outer darkness.

See the following:

Guide to the Scriptures: Hell

Guide to the Scriptures: Paradise

Guide to the Scriptures: Judgment, The Last

Guide to the Scriptures: Degrees of Glory

Guide to the Scriptures: Sons of Perdition

Sincerely,

Vanhin

[Vanhin]

And what skalenfehl said. :)

Vanhin

[skalenfehl]

LOL, I like how Vanhin explains it also. Very simple to understand. I think sometimes I get too technical.

[nannysherri]

There is a huge area for judgment here. This is so personal, you have everything from self defence to purposely taking a life. We know that Hevenly Father knows everything and what is in our hearts and is the ultimite judge. Will these people be able to enter Heaven? As others have explained here regarding different degrees of glory there may be a place for these people. Where that place will be will be decided in the judgment. Hevenly Father is JUST.

[skalenfehl]

Indeed God is just and knows our hearts. For this reason we are told we will be judged by our works and by the desires of our hearts. Someone who kills in self defense could not be held in the same light as someone who kills for pleasure.

[MormonGirl02]

Thanks everyone! I'm still a little confused though. One poster said that they must go through Outer Darkness for a time. Is that true? I thought Outer Darkness was a permanent place for the sons of perdition? Also, wouldn't they not go to Outer Darkness but instead to Spirit Prison?

[Vanhin]

Thanks everyone! I'm still a little confused though. One poster said that they must go through Outer Darkness for a time. Is that true? I thought Outer Darkness was a permanent place for the sons of perdition? Also, wouldn't they not go to Outer Darkness but instead to Spirit Prison?

Yeah that sounded a little weird to me too, but what he may have been referring to was the fact that no matter what kingdom of glory one inherits, we must repent before the final day of judgement or we will suffer for any unrepented sins.

For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink— Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.

Wherefore, I command you again to repent, lest I humble you with my almighty power; and that you confess your sins, lest you suffer these punishments of which I have spoken, of which in the smallest, yea, even in the least degree you have tasted at the time I withdrew my Spirit. (D&C 19:16-20)

The atonement of Jesus Christ makes it possible for us to repent and not suffer the demands of justice. That's why we should have faith in Christ and repent now and not tomorrow.

Regards,

Vanhin

[nannysherri]

Mormon Girl it can be confusing we don't have allot of information regardin outer darkness just that it would be a place to avoid. The only people that will be there are those who know the Holy Ghost then deny it, direct defience. It is possible that there will be murders in a kingdom of glory. Don't get confused between spirt prison and outer darkness they have little in common. Spirt prison is kind of a holding place, outer darkness is eternal and happens at final judgement.

[Traveler]

Often when we ask the question of who will or who will not be in heaven we do so focusing on a single event in a person’s life. I personally think this is the wrong approach and I also think it displays a great deal of ignorance about the kind of place heaven is.

To be honest – it is my belief that most people (including many on this very forum) will not be in heaven because it is not a place of their liking. For example, the once saved always saved approach to things – to me appears to be a perfect fit of Satan and his Kingdom. His plan is to take care of everybody. His plan was to save everybody by grace. So if you want to be saved regardless – then Satan and hell is the perfect place for you.

Heaven is a place for people that are free. In other words heaven is for those that are responsible and take responsibility. Yes, I am well aware that there are tons of scriptures but I personally believe many times people read too much of what they want into scripture. G-d is not about mindless robots without personalities and abilities – G-d is about righteousness, covenants and responsibility. It is Satan that wants to fix “it” for everybody.

So here is the deal. I believe that regardless of what is in a person’s past – if they want to be a saint, do what saints do and be responsible as a saint is responsible – they belong in heaven. I also believe that regardless of what is in a person’s past – if they do not want to be good – making fun of anyone that is good for any reason – they do not belong in heaven. But more than anything – if anyone wants a G-d and a kingdom where they are taken care of; do not have to lift a finger for their own salvation (or anyone else’s) then Satan and Hell is their perfect match.

And yes – it is a choice – and from the posting – many have made their choice.

The Traveler

[skalenfehl]

Thanks everyone! I'm still a little confused though. One poster said that they must go through Outer Darkness for a time. Is that true? I thought Outer Darkness was a permanent place for the sons of perdition? Also, wouldn't they not go to Outer Darkness but instead to Spirit Prison?

I hope it wasn't me that said that. Please clarify.

On a side note, let's see if I can do something a little different:

Pre-mortal life>Mortal life>Death (Paradise or Spirit Prison/Hell)>Resurrection>Judgment>Kingdoms of glory or Perdition/Outer Darkness. The End.

That is sort of a linear visual. There are people who have been in Spirit Prison since the time of Adam who will never accept the gospel or the testimony of Christ (see my very first post quoting lds.org as it explains everything very clearly). There are also people who haven't been born yet and are still in their pre-mortal state. Regardless, everyone will have their mortal probation and in the Spirit World be sent to their "temporary residence" until the resurrection. That temporary residence is either Paradise or Prison, which is also called Hell. Perdition is what happens after the final resurrection and judgment.