Three Kingdoms & a 4th - what are they like?

[skalenfehl]

What about the Telestial Kingdom?

The Telestial Kingdom will be visited by the Holy Ghost. Christ will not abide the Telestial and Father in Heaven will not abide the Terrestrial.

[Hemidakota]

Justice, your posting, reminded me of a talk given at BYU called "A Message of Judgment from the Olivet Sermon" by Arthur A. Bailey. It goes into how to interrupt the Savior's parable and especially the parable called the "Ten Talents". The part that is quite fasinating was the part of the one talent; those who will inherit the Outer Darkness.

"The Talents"

In the parable of the talents (Matthew 25:14-30), one man is given five, which he doubles; another is given two, which he also doubles; the third is given one, but he refuses to use it properly. The emphasis here is on the actions of these servants in the kingdom before the return of their master, or the Second Coming. Originally a talent was a weight of measure; in this context it could represent the weight of responsibility for fulfilling a particular commission in the kingdom. 14 In a modern revelation, the Lord declared that improving our talents is directly related to how we conduct ourselves in our stewardship responsibilities (D&C 82:19-21).

The narrative focuses on the servant who received one talent and then failed in the charge given him. We have commonly interpreted the parable as being about refusing to develop the abilities or capabilities God may have blessed us with—that is, abilities to sing, to write, to act, to paint, and so forth. And yet, refusing to cultivate these talents does not appear to be such a serious offense as to merit being cast "into outer darkness:

there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 25:30).

This aspect of seriousness is reflected also in the parable of the marriage feast, where one man came improperly dressed. When he was discovered by the king, he was bound hand and foot and "cast . . . away into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (JST Matthew 22:13). The Lord declares that "the children of the wicked one shall be cast into outer darkness" (JST Matthew 8:12). Furthermore, in Matthew 13:43 we read that the offenders in the kingdom are cast out among the wicked and there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. This theme of weeping and gnashing of teeth is also reported in Luke 13:28 in connection with those who come to the closed door and are told to depart. And, in Matthew 24:51, the unfaithful steward is appointed his portion with the hypocrites and "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Additional information about the state of some souls who fall under this damning indictment is found in the Book of Mormon: "And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil—for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house—and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil" (Alma 40:13).

These individuals have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord because they chose evil works and the spirit of the devil possessed them. Their own iniquity condemned them to outer darkness. In the Book of Mormon we also read about a time of judgment when the wicked "shall have cause to howl, and weep, and wail, and gnash their teeth; and this because they would not hearken unto the voice of the Lord; therefore the Lord redeemeth them not" (Mosiah 16:2). In Doctrine and Covenants 85:9 those "who are not found written in the book of remembrance . . . shall be cut asunder, and their portion shall be appointed them among unbelievers, where are wailing and gnashing of teeth." In Doctrine and Covenants 101:90 the Lord declares that he "will cut off those wicked, unfaithful, and unjust stewards," who oppress the saints, "and appoint them their portion among hypocrites, and unbelievers." The Book of Mormon references imply a fulness of suffering in outer darkness, but the Doctrine and Covenants indicates that some may be afflicted with only a portion of that torment. It appears, however, that those who remain in a state of hypocrisy and disbelief will not be redeemed to a reward of glory hereafter.

King Benjamin declared: "For behold, there is a wo pronounced upon him who listeth to obey that [evil] spirit; for if he listeth to obey him, and remaineth and dieth in his sins, the same drinketh damnation to his own soul; for he receiveth for his wages an everlasting punishment, having transgressed the law of God contrary to his own knowledge" (Mosiah 2:33; compare 36-39). The reason for such terrible condemnation comes because an individual knowingly transgresses the laws of the kingdom. For example, the man who came by invitation to the wedding feast in Matthew 22:2-14 but who was improperly dressed must have known that he was inappropriately attired. Unlike the servant who received the one talent, the wedding guest made no excuse for his behavior; nevertheless, it was still a serious offense and the king ordered his servants to "bind [the guest] hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness" (Matthew 22:13). 15

"Outer darkness" and its attendant suffering are mostly related to judgments for members of the kingdom, particularly for those who are in some state of apostasy. From Moses 1:22, it appears that Satan and his servants suffer the same type of torment. Passages in the Doctrine and Covenants imply that others besides members could fall under this condemnation in certain circumstances (see D&C 101:81-91) and indicate that many people (D&C 76:109) will be saved in the telestial kingdom who have been guilty of committing serious sins (D&C 76:103). Joseph Smith explained that the torment inflicted upon people for their sins is "as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstone," but if they repent they can still be saved. 16 Thus, "outer darkness" and exquisite torment "as a lake burning with fire and brimstone" are descriptive of how people suffer for their sins as the devil himself is tormented. In some instances the judgment appears to be permanent; in others, only temporary. That is, some receive only a portion of the decreed judgment (D&C 85:9; JST Matthew 24:55), while others suffer a fulness (JST Matthew 8:12; compare Luke 13:25-28). The issue seems to be the amount of knowledge one possesses, the application of it to stewardship responsibility, and whether one in transgression chooses to repent.

There are those who refuse to repent. These, of course, are the sons of perdition (D&C 76:44). The type of suffering implied by the scriptural terms appears to be the same in intensity for all, but one's willingness or unwillingness to repent may determine the duration of the suffering. Repentance requires temporary suffering. Those who refuse to accept this requirement will be doomed to eternal torment. The wickedness being punished here seems to be something apart from, or in addition to, slothfulness, which is a sin the servant who received one talent was guilty of.

FOOTNOTE:

14. A talent was originally a measure of weight varying from fifty-eight to eighty pounds. By New Testament times it was used as a unit of coinage. Its value fluctuated according to the type of metal used in the minting. For example, the silver talent of Aegina in modern values could be as much as $1,600. A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament.

15. The Greek word exoteros used to describe the darkness is a superlative and means that which is farthest out. The term for "darkness" is skotos, and it is the same word for the darkness of chaos in Genesis 1:2. It is also used to refer to the domain of evil spirits and to designate the place of punishment for those who violate the mystery rites. Arndt, Bauer, Gingrich, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament. See also Liddell, Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, Clarendon Press, 1977.

[prisonchaplain]

bert's reply raises a question. PC, were you looking for personal speculation as to what we personally envision it will be like, as in my post, or a technical answer as in Hemi's? I'm sure you are aware of the technical answers, even more so than many LDS members. I tailored my answer to "envision" what it might be like for me on a personal level. That's what I thought you meant.

Both approaches...thanks Skalenfehl and Hemi!

[Hemidakota]

Too much info? Information overload....LOL

[prisonchaplain]

I can tell you what the Celestial Kingdom won't be like...

All everyone does is stand around and praise and sing to God, as is the usual description from Protestants. It will be a place of growth, work, learning, doing... in short, progressing.

You see a lot of Protestant stress on praise and worship because Revelation is full of such scenes. However, the OP should demonstrate that we know there is more to heaven than glorious singing. :)

[Hemidakota]

I am wandering if I have to build my own mansion or will someone helps me in this effort....LOL

Every man and woman who enters the celestial kingdom will find themselves living on this earth, which shall be a celestial world, and we will identify it as the earth upon which we have lived. Each man and woman who enters that kingdom will find the earth a Urim and Thummin, looking into which one may learn about all conditions and kingdoms that are beneath and the kingdoms in which we live, so that all depths are revealed to us.

[rameumptom]

What about the Telestial Kingdom?

I would modify the statements from others on this. The Father and the Son cannot descend to lower kingdoms and be seen by those within them, and retain/display their glory.

This earth is a telestial sphere, yet Joseph Smith saw both Father and Son. Clearly, the Father and the Son CAN be seen in lower kingdoms. Yet, Joseph did not see them in the fullness of their glory.

How can this be? I think the answer comes from a non-scriptural source called the Ascension of Isaiah. It is an early Christian document that tells of Isaiah's ascension through the levels of heaven. In the vision, he sees Christ descend through the levels, each time reducing his glory so that those in the kingdom can view him as they are. Several LDS scholars suggest that in coming to mortality, Jesus "emptied" himself of his glory, in order to appear normal to other humans.

And when Moses desired to see God, the Lord told him he could not see the fullness of his glory, but allowed him to see his back as God passed by. In the Book of Moses, the Lord told Moses he could not see all of his glory and remain in the flesh.

Clearly there is a way for God to see people in lower levels.

Why will the telestial be burned up at Christ's coming? Because he will come in glory, and that glory will force a change in all people and the earth, itself. Those who cannot abide the glory he shows will be destroyed. The more righteous will be changed/translated and caught up to him as he descends.

So, I do believe both Jesus and God can descend into lower realms, but they must first empty or reduce their glory first to do so.

[Hemidakota]

Even Adam was visited by the FATHER and Son in the Garden but how much of the fullness of glory was present is still a mystery for us. As the state of the earth during that time, was residing on a Terrestrial level.

Given what is said concerning about Joseph Smith, we simply know that a conduit of light first appeared and then the two figures – representing the Godhead that was enwrapped in glory that exceeded the Sun on a clear day. I found this quite unique since it doesn’t mean, Joseph did infact had the present of the Godhead on the Earth at that moment but merely parting of the veil between the state they were for him, to see them. Being overcome by the Spirit to prevent his death, how much glory was presented is what Joseph tried to describe in mere mortal words. For them that considered the Church of the First Born who witnessed the parting of the veil between this earth and the actual person, seeing the Godhead upon yonder thrones, the glory and which state of observing the person is viewing is still a mystery. Now, what most members failed to research, Joseph did observe more than the Godhead but was charged not to write it. This makes me believe as I stated where the exact location the Godhead were and method of principle of observation employed is still a mystery.

It that is the case, I doubt there is any deglorifying for the Godhead to move below that which is already stated. - IMHO -

A classic example is this one...the following vision was given to the Prophet Joseph Smith in the Kirtland Temple, January 21, 1836:

"The heavens were opened upon us, and I beheld the celestial kingdom of God, and the glory thereof, whether in the body or out I cannot tell. I saw the transcendent beauty of the gate through which the heirs of that kingdom will enter, which was like unto circling flames of fire; also the blazing throne of God, whereon was seated the Father and the Son. I saw the beautiful streets of the kingdom, which had the appearance of being paved with gold. * * * Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me saying—

"All who have died without a knowledge of this Gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who should have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom, for I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desires of their hearts.

"And I also beheld that all children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability, are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven." (D.H.C. 2:380-381.)